We are in trouble

martyvols

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 22, 2008
Messages
843
Likes
446
I gave it a few days to see where our opponents ended up after yesterday, to give my take on what I saw Thursday and where I think we end up at the end of the year

Its not going to be pretty. Our QB play was horrendous. Against one of the worst defenses in Div 1, Milton looked like another mediocre QB at UT. Stayed too long in the pocket, stared down receivers, threw the ball with no touch, and took sacks when he could have ran it for fairly good gains. This won't fly against good competition. No way he is our best passing option at QB. If he isnt going to run, give it to someone who doesnt throw a 100mph, 5 and out.

RBs still don't know how to hit the hole with purpose. Too prone to follow blocks instead of seeing the field and findimg holes. Too slow once they get the ball

Wrs can't run routes to save their life. They also seem slow as molasses.

OL looked decent against a trash defense. They'll get beat like rented mules by an SEC D

Offense is too fast.We arent good enough to run 3 plays in 27 seconds. Too many of those in games and our D will be toast. I know its cute, but its not practical. You have to give your D time to rest, especially against better teams that will pound our D into dust.

Defense is mediocre,except for a few bright spots. Banks will be exposed by better offenses. The Penn State D had its worst D last year under Franklin and since Banks left, it improved greatly in the Wisconsin game. There is a reason that Penn St didn't try harder to retain him.

The cycle at UT continues
Every opponent we eventually play with the exception of Georgia and Alabama played a game against a team that was equally as bad as BG. There is nothing you can take from this weekend that bears any merit.
 

NEO

Eat at Joe's
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
17,816
Likes
12,138
Mostly agree but the offense as a whole didn't look like crap. The run game was pretty good. The OL other than a few things played well. I doubt we know how the responsibility breaks down between the receivers and Milton but it is more than safe to say that Milton played poorly after the first quarter or so. He didn't see guys coming open. He missed open receivers. Just the two or 3 deep balls he misfired on would have changed the entire complexion of the game and perception of his/the O's performance.

I think there is an important division though. Be critical but be a fan. Don't make it personal toward these kids or coaches. Hyatt dropped a couple of balls that could have changed the game... but he isn't a worthless pos... or anything like that. Too many times people here personalize it as if a player has personally offended them by not playing well.... kind of a "universe rotates around me" kind of attitude.
I believe the coaching is good and we will atleast get back to competing for the East again in about three years.

The QB play was horrid though.

I don’t view them as kids though. They are grown men able to vote and now make money off their names. They are open for criticism.
 

RTE

Well-Known Member
Joined
Mar 2, 2021
Messages
337
Likes
486
If we clear Pitt with a W, I'll feel better about our year. They will be a heckuva lot more physical than Bowling Green, so it'll be a better gauge of Vol's toughness and conditioning.

One game in the books doesn't provide much insight. Coaches make adjustments, work out the hiccups in the season-opener, so let's all reassess after Saturday.
 

WillisWG

I don't like radicals left or right!
Joined
Aug 12, 2006
Messages
3,868
Likes
2,141
Its the Johnny Majors Classic...if memory serves he coined the phrase. We all gotta honor his legacy in our owm way this week.
You memory serves you well. . .

In 1992, after three straight losses to Arkansas, Alabama and South Carolina suddenly had the Tennessee fanbase split into the pro-Majors and pro-Fulmer camps. Feeling the heat beginning to rise, Majors uttered one of his most infamous lines. “There is the Legions of the Miserable sometimes that are always going to be miserable. You don’t let those affect how you approach your team,” Majors said, speaking of the fans in Knoxville.

Johnny Majors, more than just a Tennessee football legend (southboundanddown.com)
 
Last edited:

GetYouSomeofThat

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 22, 2017
Messages
3,533
Likes
3,839
What did you expect???. We were a bad team last year who lost all top ball players. Of course we will be worse this year compared to last year. We went from a bad coaching group to very bad coaching group. This is what happens when a program gets nailed for cheating. We will get 3 wins this year. We have to live with it.
If you have a significant other you may wanna ask them to hide all the sharp objects in the home..


Just saying...
 

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,228
Likes
36,601
I believe the coaching is good and we will atleast get back to competing for the East again in about three years.

The QB play was horrid though.

I don’t view them as kids though. They are grown men able to vote and now make money off their names. They are open for criticism.
There's a right way to criticize and then there's a wrong way. Do unto others as you would have them do to you... would apply here IMO. If I made a mistake... I'm OK with someone telling me, "You did that wrong!"... not so much if they said "You suck!"
 

NEO

Eat at Joe's
Joined
Sep 14, 2009
Messages
17,816
Likes
12,138
There's a right way to criticize and then there's a wrong way. Do unto others as you would have them do to you... would apply here IMO. If I made a mistake... I'm OK with someone telling me, "You did that wrong!"... not so much if they said "You suck!"

But what if you didn’t just simply do something wrong and you really do suck?
 

OllVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jan 7, 2021
Messages
139
Likes
181
I loved Jamir Johnson and wish he was here. Him at RT and Cade back at RG would be an upgrade IMO. Fair point on Gray. He's homerun potential is greater than current two. Just thought he was very easily tackled and left yards on the field. I think you're right on the last point and culture. Seems like daddy is more of the problem w/ Henry T than Henry himself but who knows.
Great post.
 

GordonC

Dusty Sucks Eggs
Joined
Nov 26, 2017
Messages
6,150
Likes
10,668
You memory serves you well. . .

In 1992, after three straight losses to Arkansas, Alabama and South Carolina suddenly had the Tennessee fanbase split into the pro-Majors and pro-Fulmer camps. Feeling the heat beginning to rise, Majors uttered one of his most infamous lines. “There is the Legions of the Miserable sometimes that are always going to be miserable. You don’t let those affect how you approach your team,” Majors said, speaking of the fans in Knoxville.

Johnny Majors, more than just a Tennessee football legend (southboundanddown.com)
That was so bad aka miserable.
Arky lost to the Citadel in 92, and SC was the Taneyhill debacle in Colbumbia (all SEC DLman jumped offsides 3x in second half iirc).
 

1974Vol

4 * 2011 QB
Joined
Dec 15, 2009
Messages
3,074
Likes
2,385
UT played one of the worst teams in FBS... USCe played very literally one of the worst teams in FCS. UT's scout team would look "pretty good" against that team.
While I agree the opposition was not good, I was hoping to see USCe look bad as we desperately need some SEC wins. From the way they played USCe went from "very good chance to win" to "toss up game."

FAU is a good G5 team. But you can't read too much into UF handling them. UF fans are worried about their passing game like us. They still have concerns about a D that gave up 353 yds to FAU.
I don't think Florida is very good by their historical standards. My concern arises from them having a real difference maker in Richardson. He will be by far the best player on the field when we play them.

Those two teams may have found two of the few, maybe only, teams worse than BGSU to open with. Again, you can't read too much into those scores or wins. You can tell something about individual players and units maybe. ULM had the worst total O at 305 ypg and next to worst total D in the Sun Belt last fall. They scored 16 ppg and gave up 42. All this against an all G5 schedule. UMass was even worse. In 4 games, they scored one TD and one FG while giving up 40 ppg.
Don't disagree, but was just hoping to see them struggle, and while not looking "great" Florida looks better than us and USCe looks harder to beat than I had expected.

Agreed. Milton did not play well. Apparently he and the receivers both didn't play as they had practiced. That will have to improve or it will get ugly. There is absolutely no reason at all to think Heupel will allow the season to be sunk by Milton or any other individual player. There's no evidence of that yet. He kept his starter in to work on his first team O. Milton has earned it to this point. That's all. If he continues to perform poorly then worry about it. They were. They didn't win the job. If Milton keeps stumbling then he'll have to open it back up.
Not saying that they should bench Milton but he completed 1 pass in the second half. He might have benefitted from seeing the game from the sideline with the headset on with the OC for a series or two. That would have given the other two some live game reps on film and keep the competition alive. We're running out of games where we can do that.

And pretty consistent with a negative skew you have generally.
Do you realistically see us being better than 2-6 in the SEC? If not then we have to beat Pitt (and the rest of the NC schedule) to be bowl eligible. That's not negative just realistic. I would be delighted with 6-6 and a bowl, especially if we're at least competitive in the losses. This a QB driven sport. With QB play like we got in the 2nd half we're only a 4 win team. At least thanks to Vandy its unlikely we have another winless SEC slate.
 

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,228
Likes
36,601
Do you realistically see us being better than 2-6 in the SEC?
Yes. This is a 6 to 8 win team and a 2 to 4 (5 or 6 on the very extreme outside) win team in the SEC... "realistically".

Mizzou is not a talented football team. Odom left roster gaps. He did not find or develop the "diamonds in the rough" like Pinkel did. They have a good QB. They have massive holes both in terms of talent and depth on both sides of the ball. They have some problems on D that are only fixed by having better players. CMU consistently moved the ball up and down the field They hurt themselves with penalties (some of which were questionable in MU's favor) or else we could be having a whole different conversation.

I'll need to see UK do that against an opponent much better than ULM before writing that game off. Their QB is a "good" player but never earned the starting job at PSU. Their receivers need to beat SEC caliber secondaries. Like UT, we will know a lot more about them over the next few weeks. We will know A LOT more about both MU and UK after this weekend.

I also like the way that game sets up for UT. UT has USCe, Ole Miss, Bama but then a bye week before UK. UK in successive weeks leading up to UT plays UF, LSU, UGA, and MSU.

Those two games are no worse than "toss ups" at this stage. Up a level from them are UF and Ole Miss. Those are possible but not likely wins for UT.

If not then we have to beat Pitt (and the rest of the NC schedule) to be bowl eligible. That's not negative just realistic.
Yeah. It is negative to write UK and Mizzou off at this point which is your premise.

I would be delighted with 6-6 and a bowl, especially if we're at least competitive in the losses. This a QB driven sport. With QB play like we got in the 2nd half we're only a 4 win team.
And Heupel will have to show himself a good HC by not allowing a QB to sink the season, won't he? UT has 3 guys with SEC caliber talent on the roster. If he is a decent coach then at least one of them can win those types of games.
At least thanks to Vandy its unlikely we have another winless SEC slate.
LOL... NO. You aren't being hyper negative at all... are you? That is being negative and specifically NOT being realistic.
 

Rooster1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
2,648
Likes
2,653
Good analysis and I agree.
I said nearly the same thing late in the game thread and was chastised. This offensive scheme will stress our defense beyond repair vs any SEC team. (Well maybe not Vandy). To me by adopting the hurry up gimmick scheme we are surrendering any attempt at being successful in the SEC.
Ole Miss looks great running that "gimmick" scheme.
 

Rooster1

Well-Known Member
Joined
May 21, 2014
Messages
2,648
Likes
2,653
It did. But Milton still didn't hit open receivers. Apparently some of the receivers also didn't work the gaps in the zone very well.

WR's are supposed to read coverage too. In zone, you go find a gap and "sit down" in it. Hopefully the QB found it too and has thrown the ball before the coverage can collapse on you. Almost all zones have a weakness over the top if you get the time to wait. UT had guys behind the zone but Milton didn't hit them.
Just an uniformed observation here by an outsider. I watched your game in its entirety. I'm not anything more than a CFB fan but I can't ever remember seeing a QB standing in a clean pocket for 6-8 seconds so consistently. I gave it some thought as to if that was a good thing or a bad thing. Normally you would say it's good because the OL must be doing a helluva job in pass protection.

But then you see BG never really sent much pressure most of the game and you begin to wonder with all that time, why didn't the QB have better passing results? Some posters say its because BG dropped 8 into coverage most of the game. If that was my QB, I would have wanted to see quicker decisions made against that caliber of an opponent knowing much faster defenses are on the schedule that will send heavy pressure causing the QB to make a decision in 1-2 seconds. How will that look? Guess we will get a glimpse against Pitt who has a better defense.
 

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,228
Likes
36,601
Just an uniformed observation here by an outsider. I watched your game in its entirety. I'm not anything more than a CFB fan but I can't ever remember seeing a QB standing in a clean pocket for 6-8 seconds so consistently. I gave it some thought as to if that was a good thing or a bad thing. Normally you would say it's good because the OL must be doing a helluva job in pass protection.
True on the OL... but awful, awful habit with a QB. By the time the internal clock hits 1003... a decision should be made. Run it. Pass it. Throw it away.

I'm neither pro nor anti Milton. But he did things last week you just can't do if you're going to succeed as a QB. Cutcliffe several years back focused on installing a 2.5 second clock in Ainge's head. Made him a completely different and more effective QB.

But then you see BG never really sent much pressure most of the game and you begin to wonder with all that time, why didn't the QB have better passing results? Some posters say its because BG dropped 8 into coverage most of the game. If that was my QB, I would have wanted to see quicker decisions made against that caliber of an opponent knowing much faster defenses are on the schedule that will send heavy pressure causing the QB to make a decision in 1-2 seconds. How will that look? Guess we will get a glimpse against Pitt who has a better defense.
You're not wrong. Zones can require a little more patience but a good QB can move a zone to create windows. Good receivers can find windows and offer the QB a target. Milton's arm should make a zone a cyanide pill for opponents. He should be able to get it there so quick that no zone D can react. We didn't see that.

Pitt likes to play man. But you have to figure they'll work some zone in after what they saw on video.
 

sjt18

Well-Known Member
Joined
Aug 16, 2006
Messages
46,228
Likes
36,601
People still believing this diamond in the rough coaching hires method is going to work. Lol.
How many cut and polished diamonds do you think were lined up to take the UT job this January?

Where do you think those $10 million diamonds come from? Saban was one season away from being fired at Mich St before getting a reset at LSU. Is someone like Meyer who you're looking for? He had success at a couple of G5 schools like Heupel before getting the UF job. He was successful at UF with two NC's but also had 3 seasons out of 6 with less than 10 wins including the bowl.

At all times... some coach, some where is on the verge of emerging as the next hot commodity just like every other dominant coach.
 

ShoalCreekVol

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 16, 2008
Messages
2,584
Likes
3,613
This whole thing reminds me of a 1780 letter future President John Adams wrote to his wife Abigail while he was drumming up support for us in Paris. We needed guns and money for war. France had the problem of worrying about what luxury shall we indulge in next.

The Vols need fundamentals and game reps. The Sabans and Smarts of the world get to focus extra time on the mental game. We will get there. Just not this season or maybe a few more. Here is part of what he said. Interesting...

"To take a Walk in the Gardens of the Palace of the Tuilleries, and describe the Statues there, all in marble, in which the ancient Divinities and Heroes are represented with exquisite Art, would be a very pleasant Amusement, and instructive Entertainment, improving in History, Mythology, Poetry, as well as in Statuary. Another Walk in the Gardens of Versailles, would be usefull and agreable. But to observe these Objects with Taste and describe them so as to be understood, would require more time and thought than I can possibly Spare. It is not indeed the fine Arts, which our Country requires. The Usefull, the mechanic Arts, are those which We have occasion for in a young Country, as yet simple and not far advanced in Luxury, altho perhaps much too far for her Age and Character.

I could fill Volumes with Descriptions of Temples and Palaces, Paintings, Sculptures, Tapestry, Porcelaine, &c. &c. &c. -- if I could have time. But I could not do this without neglecting my duty. The Science of Government it is my Duty to study, more than all other Studies Sciences: the Art of Legislation and Administration and Negotiation, ought to take Place, indeed to exclude in a manner all other Arts. I must study Politicks and War that my sons may have liberty to study Mathematicks and Philosophy. My sons ought to study Mathematicks and Philosophy, Geography, natural History, Naval Architecture, navigation, Commerce and Agriculture, in order to give their Children a right to study Painting, Poetry, Musick, Architecture, Statuary, Tapestry and Porcelaine."
Dooley, that you?
 

allvol123

Well-Known Member
Joined
Jun 3, 2006
Messages
46,930
Likes
41,817
How many cut and polished diamonds do you think were lined up to take the UT job this January?

Where do you think those $10 million diamonds come from? Saban was one season away from being fired at Mich St before getting a reset at LSU. Is someone like Meyer who you're looking for? He had success at a couple of G5 schools like Heupel before getting the UF job. He was successful at UF with two NC's but also had 3 seasons out of 6 with less than 10 wins including the bowl.

At all times... some coach, some where is on the verge of emerging as the next hot commodity just like every other dominant coach.

This is our MO, not an exception.
 

VN Store




Top