TOM BRADY > PEYTON MANNING. Who had the better career?

Pappy

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99gator

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I’m not going to say an unkind word about Peyton. And referring to him as mid tier is just lunacy.

But, Brady has had the better career.

There are certain stats about players where if you talk to former players their heads explode because they can’t fathom the stat you give them.

You mention Jerry Rice’s stats to WR and then tell them he played before the game changed to make it more passing friendly and their head explodes

You mention the amount of times Emmitt Smith carried the football in his career and people who played RB can’t wrap their head around it.

You have players stop and think about playing in 9 Super Bowls in their career and it’s mind blowing. 12 conference championship games in his career and the team has played in 8 straight. Same goes for all the statistical playoff records.
 

VolFreakJosh

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Better career? Tom Brady.

Better overall player? Peyton Manning.

Manning played the QB position about as good as you can get.

No, he wasn’t the fastest nor the strongest but he was SMART. He could read defenses and knew exactly who to throw the ball too.

You can’t sit there with a straight face and tell me Brady is a better athlete than Manning. It’s just not accurate.
 

livefaith

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....correct, plus the Dobbs vs JG thread? Its like the Twillight Zone in here today......"Lord!!! Please let football start today so these offseason threads will stop!!! " 😭😭😭😭😭😭
Be careful what you ask for. This place was begging for the season to end last year by mid-October! 😃
 

lifeisdeep

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There's having an opinion, which everyone is entitled to do, and which generally hurts no one...And then there's homerism where things are exaggerated slightly in good fun...And then there's just willful distortion of the truth, also known as lying.

Steve Young: "Brady is the greatest because he's done more with less than any other quarterback."

Jim Kelly: "Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback of all time...The consistency, every single year he does it. And he doesn't have, all time, the greatest players around him. A lot of times they are in and out -- [Wes] Welker is gone, a couple other guys are gone. He does have a great one in [Rob] Gronkowski, but the thing is he makes it work and it doesn't matter what it is."

Troy Aikman: "Tom Brady is the greatest quarterback that has ever played."

Aaron Rodgers, on Brady's performance in SB 51: "So from a fan’s perspective, what a great game to watch and to see Tom in his greatness on display one more time. I mean, he didn’t need to win that to prove that he’s the G.O.A.T., but just another part of his legacy there.”

Deion Sanders: "Tom Brady is in a class by himself. He could get another coach and still be Tom Brady. He could get another owner and still be Tom Brady. But they can't get another Tom Brady and still be sitting in that Super Bowl."

Michael Irvin: "Tom Brady is the best quarterback of all time."

Kurt Warner, responding to a fan calling Brady a system quarterback: "Systems don’t have anything to do with great QB play at the biggest moments... they don’t make QBs throw great balls into tight windows..." Warner also ranks Brady the #1 quarterback, at the age of 42, going into the 2019 season, ahead of media darling Mahomes and everyone else.

Manning had two HOF receivers playing for him at the same time for most of his career in Harrison and Wayne. Brady has had one HOF tight end who played a whopping one season without missing games due to injury; Gronk missed five or more games in six of his nine seasons. Brady has never had a HOF wide receiver in his prime (he had Moss for two years at the tail end of his career, and threw for 50 touchdowns and went undefeated in the regular season the first of those two years). Brady has never had a Pro Bowl running back. Brady won a Super Bowl with Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola as his primary targets (Gronk was out with injury).

Brady has more playoff wins than 28 NFL franchises. He led the largest comeback in Super Bowl history. He threw for the most yards in Super Bowl history. He holds the all-time NFL records for most passing yards and for most touchdowns in a career. He holds the records for most regular-season wins, most postseason wins, and most total wins. Even former pros who naysayed him being the greatest four or six years ago now say there's no discussion.

He has played eighteen seasons, and has made it to the Super Bowl in nine of those eighteen seasons. He has played in the Super Bowl 50% of the time. This alone separates him from every other singular athlete in any team sport. Neither Jordan nor anyone else has ever equalled this, nor will anyone do so. (And Jordan played for the best coach in the history of the NBA.)

You don't have to like him, and you're certainly entitled to shower a former Vol with love because he's a Vol. But when you purposely put forth lies, you make the world a worse place to be. It affects people who read the lies; it affects you in your interactions with other people the day you wrote it, because you know deep down that you distorted the truth, and you know on some level that you put that distortion out into the world.

Not to mention, it's really annoying.
 

PhoenixAZVol

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I’m not going to say an unkind word about Peyton. And referring to him as mid tier is just lunacy.

But, Brady has had the better career.

There are certain stats about players where if you talk to former players their heads explode because they can’t fathom the stat you give them.

You mention Jerry Rice’s stats to WR and then tell them he played before the game changed to make it more passing friendly and their head explodes

You mention the amount of times Emmitt Smith carried the football in his career and people who played RB can’t wrap their head around it.

You have players stop and think about playing in 9 Super Bowls in their career and it’s mind blowing. 12 conference championship games in his career and the team has played in 8 straight. Same goes for all the statistical playoff records.
Yes. Great TEAM accomplishments for sure. Pretty sure pats would still have still won the majority with or without Brady, ie, last years SB. Brady had no impact on the outcome whatsoever.
 

PhoenixAZVol

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Better career? Tom Brady.

Better overall player? Peyton Manning.

Manning played the QB position about as good as you can get.

No, he wasn’t the fastest nor the strongest but he was SMART. He could read defenses and knew exactly who to throw the ball too.

You can’t sit there with a straight face and tell me Brady is a better athlete than Manning. It’s just not accurate.
Both are not very athletic but Peyton was a better pure passer and had a higher QB iq. I don’t even call what Brady does ‘passing’ the ball anymore. More like flicking the ball to someone. Some many rules have changed and the defense has been crippled so much the qbs don’t even have to ‘pass’ the ball anymore. Peyton benefitted some as well but not to the extent Brady has.
 

PhoenixAZVol

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None? He started 16 games and 3 playoff games.

I believe he was a factor
Garrapolos would have been a Sb champion last year had he started all 16 games last year as well as would more that half of the qbs in the nfl and they would likely have won an extra game and scored more points against the rams. My opinion of course but that opinion will not change based on my observations that tb did nothing out of the ordinary last year much like Peyton in 2015.
 

lifeisdeep

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None? He started 16 games and 3 playoff games.

I believe he was a factor
He also had four straight completions on third-and-ten or longer in the AFCCG that led to the single most pathetic display of whining in pro sports in the modern era when Reid and all the KC fans basically said it wasn't fair for Tom Brady to get the ball first in overtime, i.e. because they knew if he got the ball the game was over.

Subtract Brady from the equation and give any other QB, Mahomes, Brees, Peyton Manning or anyone else, the ball in that situation, tell him he has to get in position for a touchdown by driving the length of the field with Julian Edelman as the primary target, and see if you get the same result.
 

keenobserver

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If you really are a football guru, Peyton Manning is better that Brady......Peyton spent almost his entire career with below average offenses, multiple head coaches and coordinators, sometimes outright bad defenses..went to the Superbowl with different head coaches.

Brady has obviously had much more continuity, stability, and support from coaching to administration to personnel....

....Look at the numbers......also, the eye test favors Peyton considering he basically led the team, called the plays, etc.......

I won't get into an argument if someone says Brady is better, but I'm proud to state my case.

Here's a better question: How many Superbowls would Peyton have if he was drafted at the same time by the Pats?
 
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PhoenixAZVol

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If you really are a football guru, Peyton Manning is better that Brady......Peyton spent almost his entire career on average to below average teams, multiple head coaches and coordinators, sometimes outright bad defenses..

Brady has obviously had much more continuity, stability, and support from coaching to administration to personnel....

....Look at the numbers......also, the eye test favors Peyton considering he basically led the team, called the plays, etc.......

I won't get into an argument if someone says Brady is better, but I'm proud to state my case.

Here's a better question: How many Superbowls would Peyton have if he was drafted at the same time by the Pats?
Spot on.
 

lifeisdeep

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If you really are a football guru, Peyton Manning is better that Brady......Peyton spent almost his entire career on average to below average teams, multiple head coaches and coordinators, sometimes outright bad defenses..

Brady has obviously had much more continuity, stability, and support from coaching to administration to personnel....

....Look at the numbers......also, the eye test favors Peyton considering he basically led the team, called the plays, etc.......

I won't get into an argument if someone says Brady is better, but I'm proud to state my case.

Here's a better question: How many Superbowls would Peyton have if he was drafted at the same time by the Pats?
This is about as silly and specious as an argument ever could be. I listed several quarterbacks who either already are in or will be in the HOF, all of whom didn't say, "It's close, but Brady edges out Manning;" they stated flatly that Brady was the greatest; I'm pretty confident those guys are smart enough to understand the difference in the level of coaching Brady has had and what Manning did, although one or two people consider Tony Dungy a pretty decent coach. But somehow you're a guru and Aikman and Young and Kelly know nothing about football, or more specifically the quarterback position?

I also listed very specific, inarguable examples that don't just disprove the idea that Manning played with inferior teams, they show how blatantly dishonest and just laughable that claim is. Continuing to trumpet the idea that playing with two HOF wideouts at the same time for the majority of one's career is somehow playing with inferior talent to Reche Caldwell, who was the top wideout Brady for one of his Super Bowl appearances, or that Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison are inferior to Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola, who were the two top wideouts two SB victories ago for Brady, really lays bare how far the homers will go in their distortion of the truth (I'm working really hard here not to use the more frank word for what you're doing). Manning also had a HOF running back at the same time he had those two receivers...And he still only won one Super Bowl with that embarrassment of riches for weapons the like of which Brady has never come close to having.
 

Weezer

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Who had the better career overall? I know brady is still playing and isnt done. Is there any way we can say that Peyton had a better career? OR is he more of a mid tier Hall of Famer?
Freak should ban you from VN for this thread. What the hell were you thinking? Are your parents brother and sister? Dammit! Why are some people stupid?
 

keenobserver

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This is about as silly and specious as an argument ever could be. I listed several quarterbacks who either already are in or will be in the HOF, all of whom didn't say, "It's close, but Brady edges out Manning;" they stated flatly that Brady was the greatest; I'm pretty confident those guys are smart enough to understand the difference in the level of coaching Brady has had and what Manning did, although one or two people consider Tony Dungy a pretty decent coach. But somehow you're a guru and Aikman and Young and Kelly know nothing about football, or more specifically the quarterback position?

I also listed very specific, inarguable examples that don't just disprove the idea that Manning played with inferior teams, they show how blatantly dishonest and just laughable that claim is. Continuing to trumpet the idea that playing with two HOF wideouts at the same time for the majority of one's career is somehow playing with inferior talent to Reche Caldwell, who was the top wideout Brady for one of his Super Bowl appearances, or that Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison are inferior to Julian Edelman and Danny Amendola, who were the two top wideouts two SB victories ago for Brady, really lays bare how far the homers will go in their distortion of the truth (I'm working really hard here not to use the more frank word for what you're doing). Manning also had a HOF running back at the same time he had those two receivers...And he still only won one Super Bowl with that embarrassment of riches for weapons the like of which Brady has never come close to having.
Throughout your rant, you weren't able to dispel one comment that I made in my post. You seem to be debating yourself......or at least questioning yourself..let's start with your first piece of evidence that Brady is better than Manning

1) other HOF quarterbacks say so

I'm willing to bet there may be some that say Peyton.
This is your most silly and specious argument....there's alot of NBA players today that say Lebron is better than MJ.....I know better

2)the closest you came was proving manning played with some good offensive players. Point taken....however, I would argue that Brady also enjoyed some historically great defenses and I'm sure many of those guys will end up in the HOF....I could list those, but for brevity I'll ask about the 2000's Colts. Besides Freeney, anyone else on those defenses paramount in their success?

3) Dungy was a good HC for a few years....belichick is the greatest of all time. TB has spent his entire career with him and has enjoyed the continuity and stability that we all know is rare and vital for long term success for any organization or team.

4) superbowls are the most important stat. However, it shouldn't be the only measuring stick. Peyton's numbers are better in most statistical categories

5) again, I don't have a problem when Brady is labeled the goat. I can see that argument...but, I don't think it's as homerun as some say....especially if you really remember the imprint that Manning had on the position he played and the teams he was on....
 
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KingGenius

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Obviously Brady had a better career. But Peyton never had Belichick. I'd take Peyton over Brady for my team. Brady has to take a paycut to have a superbowl team. Peyton on the field is like having a brilliant coach field general telling everyone what to do, when to do it, how to do it. He took a crap Colts team to the playoffs every year.
 

lifeisdeep

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Throughout your rant, you weren't able to dispel one comment that I made in my post. You seem to be debating yourself......or at least questioning yourself..let's start with your first piece of evidence that Brady is better than Manning

1) other HOF quarterbacks say so

I'm willing to bet there may be some that say Peyton.
This is your most silly and specious argument....there's alot of NBA players today that say Lebron is better than MJ.....I know better

2)the closest you came was proving manning played with some good offensive players. Point taken....however, I would argue that Brady also enjoyed some historically great defenses and I'm sure many of those guys will end up in the HOF....I could list those, but for brevity I'll ask about the 2000's Colts. Besides Freeney, anyone else on those defenses paramount in their success?

3) Dungy was a good HC for a few years....belichick is the greatest of all time. TB has spent his entire career with him and has enjoyed the continuity and stability that we all know is rare and vital for long term success for any organization or team.

4) superbowls are the most important stat. However, it shouldn't be the only measuring stick. Peyton's numbers are better in almost every statistical category

5) again, I don't have a problem when Brady is labeled the goat. I can see that argument...but, I don't think it's as homerun as some say....especially if you really remember the imprint that Manning had on the position he played and the teams he was on....
I think you have a poor understanding of the meaning of the word, "dispel." It's not possible to dispel a comment more completely than I did your assertion that Brady has played with better talent - I gave very specific, and again, inarguable examples that you haven't even tried to discredit; you tried to change the topic by shifting to the defenses Brady has had. And that comment also proves you either haven't paid a lot of attention to most of Brady's career or are simply choosing to distort the facts, because he hasn't had a top defense in a long time. The defense was amazing in the playoffs just a few months ago - and that same defense was middle-of-the-road, or at times worse than that, for most of the regular season, with no more proof needed than the fact they lost five games, the most they've ever lost and still made the playoffs with Brady. They got blown out by Detroit and Tennessee, and if you watched either game you know the defense was pathetic both times.

"Peyton's numbers are better in almost every statistical category"
This has every bit as much truth and validity to it as if I were to state that I'm the President of the United States; it's every bit as risible and false of a statement.

Brady has the record for the most yards in the history of the NFL, regular season and postseason combined. He also holds the record for the most wins. He also holds the record for the most TDs in history counting regular and postseason. He'll pass Manning this season both for passing yards and passing TDs in the regular season.

How many regular-season yards, touchdowns, and completions do you think Brady would have right now if he had had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison together on the same team for eight years like Peyton did? He'd have 100,000 yards and 1,000 TDs.
 

keenobserver

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I think you have a poor understanding of the meaning of the word, "dispel." It's not possible to dispel a comment more completely than I did your assertion that Brady has played with better talent - I gave very specific, and again, inarguable examples that you haven't even tried to discredit; you tried to change the topic by shifting to the defenses Brady has had. And that comment also proves you either haven't paid a lot of attention to most of Brady's career or are simply choosing to distort the facts, because he hasn't had a top defense in a long time. The defense was amazing in the playoffs just a few months ago - and that same defense was middle-of-the-road, or at times worse than that, for most of the regular season, with no more proof needed than the fact they lost five games, the most they've ever lost and still made the playoffs with Brady. They got blown out by Detroit and Tennessee, and if you watched either game you know the defense was pathetic both times.

"Peyton's numbers are better in almost every statistical category"
This has every bit as much truth and validity to it as if I were to state that I'm the President of the United States; it's every bit as risible and false of a statement.

Brady has the record for the most yards in the history of the NFL, regular season and postseason combined. He also holds the record for the most wins. He also holds the record for the most TDs in history counting regular and postseason. He'll pass Manning this season both for passing yards and passing TDs in the regular season.

How many regular-season yards, touchdowns, and completions do you think Brady would have right now if he had had Reggie Wayne and Marvin Harrison together on the same team for eight years like Peyton did? He'd have 100,000 yards and 1,000 TDs.
Dispel=to make rid of, to "drive out, scatter"....in other words I believe that because of your love and affection for TB, you are trying to make every attempt to dispel rational thinking and logic...

Manning: TD Passes #1
4000+ passing seasons #1
Single season passing yds #1
TDs in a season #1
MVP awards #1
Career game winning drives #1
Career comebacks #1
208 consecutive starts

Notable Colts Defenders in Manning era:
Dwight Freeney

(V.Miller and Bailey with Broncos)....FYI= you realize when he had a Patriotslike Defense he won the SB......but you might not have thought that Broncos defense was great since your evaluation of the Patriots defenses seem to be sub par?


Notable Patriot defensive greats:

Rodney Harrison (future HOF?)
Ty Law (future HOF?)
Richard Seymour
Teddy bruschi
Mike Vrabel
Vince Wilfork
Willie McGinest
Jerod Mayo (VFL)

The list goes on and on and on and on......

It's also worth noting Brady has had a top 10 defense 10 times in his career and a top 5 defense 5 times...in fact there has only been two years in which he has played that his defense wasn't in the top 10....so let's not say its "inarguable" that his success has been greatly increased because of those historic defenses. Also, while I would never use the term "inarguable", many objective sports fans do attest to Belichick's aptitude for coaching.

You keep saying that all your points are "inarguable"...this just sounds like someone offended by pushback......just because you tell yourself something over and over and truly believe it in your heart doesn't make something that is, in fact, arguable---'not arguable.....

I've told you I get Bradys greatness....you've become overwhelmed with his come from behind moments, great SB victories and the like....My judgement is clouded by seeing things in orange....fortunately for you, most people would agree with you which is a good thing, right...? I'll concede to you that Brady has had the better career, but I stop short of calling him a better QB...but who knows, looks like he has 5 more years..
 
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lifeisdeep

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Dispel=to make rid of, to "drive out, scatter"....in other words I believe that because of your love and affection for TB, you are trying to make every attempt to dispel rational thinking and logic...

Manning: TD Passes #1
4000+ passing seasons #1
Single season passing yds #1
TDs in a season #1
MVP awards #1
Career game winning drives #1
Career comebacks #1
208 consecutive starts

Notable Colts Defenders in Manning era:
Dwight Freeney

(V.Miller and Bailey with Broncos)....FYI= you realize when he had a Patriotslike Defense he won the SB......but you might not have thought that Broncos defense was great since your evaluation of the Patriots defenses seem to be sub par?


Notable Patriot defensive greats:

Rodney Harrison (future HOF?)
Ty Law (future HOF?)
Richard Seymour
Teddy bruschi
Mike Vrabel
Vince Wilfork
Willie McGinest
Jerod Mayo (VFL)

The list goes on and on and on and on......

It's also worth noting Brady has had a top 10 defense 10 times in his career and a top 5 defense 5 times...in fact there has only been two years in which he has played that his defense wasn't in the top 10....so let's not say its "inarguable" that his success has been greatly increased because of those historic defenses. Also, while I would never use the term "inarguable", many objective sports fans do attest to Belichick's aptitude for coaching.

You keep saying that all your points are "inarguable"...this just sounds like someone offended by pushback......just because you tell yourself something over and over and truly believe it in your heart doesn't make something that is, in fact, arguable---'not arguable.....

I've told you I get Bradys greatness....you've become overwhelmed with his come from behind moments, great SB victories and the like....My judgement is clouded by seeing things in orange....fortunately for you, most people would agree with you which is a good thing, right...? I'll concede to you that Brady has had the better career, but I stop short of calling him a better QB...but who knows, looks like he has 5 more years..
Ty Law just got inducted into the HOF. All but two of the other Patriots defenders you listed are eligible for the HOF (and most have been for a while now), but have been ignored for it, so perhaps they're not so far beyond the Colts defenders Manning played with as you might suggest. Mayo and Wilfork will both be eligible soon, and I would wager all the money I've ever made that neither will be selected; they were good players, but not on the level you're implying.

I think any remotely rational person who wanted to be taken seriously, and was trying to argue that Peyton Manning was a better quarterback than Brady, would probably want to avoid any mention of the Super Bowl Manning won with the Broncos. You do realize he was benched for multiple games that season in favor of Brock Osweiler? Half of the college quarterbacks in Division I could have won the Super Bowl with that defense.
 

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