Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#576
#576
Alex10 said:
My take on it is that Brady gets the honor because of playoff wins and Super Bowls. I don’t think he is/was a better qb than manning but he was lucky enough to play in a much better situation his whole career.... manning had to carry his teams... Brady has always been surrounded by a great cast and probably the greatest nfl coach of all time... had manning played under belichick his whole career I have no doubts he would have as many Super Bowls as Brady, conversely had Brady played for those same colt teams he doesn’t have any more Super Bowls than manning, I honestly doubt he would have any. So yes Brady gets the GOAT award but not because he is the better talent, but because he was the beneficiary of much better circumstances his entire career.
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lol okay
 
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#577
#577
orangepridenation said:
No one outside of the Tennessee fan base even recognizes this as a debate anymore, and I'm not even sure why UT fans are still hung up on it tbh. Brady is the best to ever play. 9 super bowl appearances, possibly about to have 6 rings, will be at or near the top of nearly every significant statistical category when he hangs it up, and he's done it with mostly castaways at the skill positions with the only honest exceptions being Randy Moss for a year and Gronk who's injured half the damn time. I don't care how much of a genius you think Bill Belichick is, Brady is the goat.

Hell, even the defenses he's had haven't been super talented, although they were very good early on. How many HOF'ers have there actually been? Maybe Richard Seymour and Ty Law from back in the day?
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You're on an island. This debate is hotter now than ever. It will not end until about 5 years after Brady retires, when it will be universally recognized that Manning's 5 NFL MVPs and 7 times All Pro are untouchable individual accomplishments. Brady will retire with only 3 of each, exposing him further as just a good QB on a great team. If he was the reason for the Pats great success, he'd have more of both. Was passed over 16 times in 19 seasons for both including years the Pats won the SB.
 
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#579
#579
WiseOlVol said:
You're on an island. This debate is hotter now than ever. It will not end until about 5 years after Brady retires, when it will be universally recognized that Manning's 5 NFL MVPs and 7 times All Pro are untouchable individual accomplishments. Brady will retire with only 3 of each, exposing him further as just a good QB on a great team. If he was the reason for the Pats great success, he'd have more of both. Was passed over 16 times in 19 seasons for both including years the Pats won the SB.
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You're either delusional, severely medicated, or just dishonest.

You do realize that both the "accomplishments" you named are arrived at purely by voting, i.e. are subjective, right? Whereas a Super Bowl victory, or playing in 39 postseason games, is objective.

You are the one on an island, and it's a pretty small one.
 
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#580
#580
Give Peyton a great defense and he wins more than Brady. The Colts stacked the offense for years and slacked on defense. Peyton made up for that the best he could. Brady is a system QB.
 
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#588
#588
Boston Vol said:
What system is that? The one that got belichick fired in Cleveland? The one that had a 5-13 record in New England before Brady took over for Bledsoe?
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If you think that Brady is as cerebral as Manning is then you are dreaming sir. Ask yourself this: Would Manning have done better than Brady At NE? I know he certainly would.
Brady was given more tools to succeed than Manning was.
 
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#591
#591
norrislakevol said:
If you think that Brady is as cerebral as Manning is then you are dreaming sir. Ask yourself this: Would Manning have done better than Brady At NE? I know he certainly would.
Brady was given more tools to succeed than Manning was.
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I know he wouldn’t have. Peyton would have had more success if he had let go of some his self imposed responsibilities. Cost him some championships. And except for the almost undefeated season, Brady always had lesser, lower drafted talent to work with.
 
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#593
#593
norrislakevol said:
Nope. Like someone already said Bill B. won alot of games with another QB. Could Indy have done that at the time without Peyton?
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They missed the playoffs in Mora’s last season. “Playoffs?” Classic rant. Belichick’s only made the postseason once without Brady...and that was at Cleveland. So only twice has he even had a winning season without Brady. Just facts.
 
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#594
#594
RollerVol said:
...at cheating?...:D

GO VOLS...RECRUIT LIKE HECK!
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Why did Brady need an edge with deflated footballs when they played the Colts? The Pats had a much better team. This is like Mike Tyson having me drugged before we fight. The Pats expect every call to go their way, cry when it doesn’t and try to find ways to skirt the rules to get an edge. There are at least 3 Suoer Bowls they were handed by stupidity from the other team and nobody outside the area wants them to win another. If the Rams win there will be whining and excuses about how they were robbed. Pats need to go away.
 
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#595
#595
Boston Vol said:
What system is that? The one that got belichick fired in Cleveland? The one that had a 5-13 record in New England before Brady took over for Bledsoe?
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No. The same system that saw NE have the #1 scoring offense in 2007, Brady gets hurt in 2008 and they plummet to 8th. They still win 10 games and BARELY lost the East on the count of a tie breaker game. Matt Cassell was a top 10 QB that year who had a better year than Big Ben, Eli and Rivers.

Take 2011, Manning misses the year. In 2010 they had the 4th scoring offense and they plummeted to 28th without Manning. As a matter of fact, Cassell threw for more yards and TDs than Painter, Orlovsky and Collins combined.

Brady is the textbook definition of a system QB. Thans not a knock on him just a fact.
 
#597
#597
butchna said:
All for naught if you don’t make the playoffs. Might as well be winless and get a better draft pick. Brady always wins that extra game to win the division. Just facts.
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But if Brady is the system, then why have other QBs looked great at NE? Why did the Pats tank in 2008? I mean they should have won the division, lets be honest. They missed because of 1 game. 1. Like the facts say, how close were the Colts to making the playoffs in 2011?
 
#598
#598
BigOrangeTrain said:
No. The same system that saw NE have the #1 scoring offense in 2007, Brady gets hurt in 2008 and they plummet to 8th. They still win 10 games and BARELY lost the East on the count of a tie breaker game. Matt Cassell was a top 10 QB that year who had a better year than Big Ben, Eli and Rivers.

Take 2011, Manning misses the year. In 2010 they had the 4th scoring offense and they plummeted to 28th without Manning. As a matter of fact, Cassell threw for more yards and TDs than Painter, Orlovsky and Collins combined.

Brady is the textbook definition of a system QB. Thans not a knock on him just a fact.
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Must be an outdated textbook. Definitely not a fact.
 
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#599
#599
BigOrangeTrain said:
But if Brady is the system, then why have other QBs looked great at NE? Why did the Pats tank in 2008? I mean they should have won the division, lets be honest. They missed because of 1 game. 1. Like the facts say, how close were the Colts to making the playoffs in 2011?
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Fact. Never made the playoffs without Brady. Luck took Manning’s crew and even beat him in the playoffs. Just facts.
 
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#600
#600
Looks like we are at a standstill. Butchna, Boston vol, and the really angry guy who thinks everyone is a liar all think Brady is the greatest human being who ever lived and deserves a Nobel peace prize. The rest of us agree that he has had great success but has benefited greatly from superior teams and the ‘system’ and would not have had the same level of success on another team. Manning on the other hand didn’t win as much but had to carry his team a lot more as he somehow made it to 4 suberbowls with for different coaches. Also, most, including butchna, can’t stand Brady because he is a smug arrogant jerk who crys a lot and is likely a liar and cheater and has gotten ridiculous calls in his favor.
 
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