Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

[butchna]

Looks like we are at a standstill. Butchna, Boston vol, and the really angry guy who thinks everyone is a liar all think Brady is the greatest human being who ever lived and deserves a Nobel peace prize. The rest of us agree that he has had great success but has benefited greatly from superior teams and the ‘system’ and would not have had the same level of success on another team. Manning on the other hand didn’t win as much but had to carry his team a lot more as he somehow made it to 4 suberbowls with for different coaches. Also, most, including butchna, can’t stand Brady because he is a smug arrogant jerk who crys a lot and is likely a liar and cheater and has gotten ridiculous calls in his favor.

He’s a horrible human being. Dropped his girlfriend when she was having his baby...amongst other low class moments. Has nothing to do with him being a great football player...see Lawrence Taylor. He’s taken less talented teams to almost 3 times as many championships...and prolly isn’t done yet.

 

[Volunteer08]

Left this thread alone yesterday hoping it would go away. This time around I feel obligated to say something - I am not shocked by those of you arguing Manning since this is Volnation...but you’re just flat out wrong and your homerness is out of control. Ha!

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Fact. Never made the playoffs without Brady. Luck took Manning’s crew and even beat him in the playoffs. Just facts.

Stats and true facts destroy your argument so you have nothing to resort to. Luck took Mannings crew? Lol. So how has Denver been without Peyton? They havent made it back to the playoffs since and they have went 20-28 in 3 seasons. Keep trying and failing.

 

[butchna]

Stats and true facts destroy your argument so you have nothing to resort to. Luck took Mannings crew? Lol. So how has Denver been without Peyton? They havent made it back to the playoffs since and they have went 20-28 in 3 seasons. Keep trying and failing.

Speaking of failing, the Bronco’s qualified for the playoffs without him in that last season. Go ahead and look it up. And yes. Luck took the remnants of those Colts to the playoffs and had a winning record against Peyton to boot. How many QB’s have a winning record against Brady? And you have a tell. When you’re tired and ebbing you double down on the desperate lol’s and facts and failing references. Just facts.

 

[99gator]

I’ll add my last log to this fire.

For people that talk about rings and it’s not fair to bring up rings, etc.

For me, I look at a Joe Montana as being great as much for taking the KC chiefs to the AFC title game as a washed up old man as I do winning titles in SF.

When you think of Brady at 37+ taking his team to a Super Bowl in 4 out of 5 seasons and the skill position talent he’s had to work with, it’s beyond amazing. Gronk has been the only true stud and he’s hurt half the time.

And contrary to popular opinion, the pats have not been fielding elite defenses the last several years. That’s not the 85 bears out there. The Mcginest, Law, Bruschi, Harrison teams had great defenses. These teams. Stop.

So, yeah, they should have lost to Seattle. They had no business competing with Seattle. Yeah, they should have lost to Atlanta. They had no business competing with Atlanta. They won a coin toss against KC. There isn’t a GM anywhere that would take the NE roster over KC. Not one.

Greatness is elevating your team through your individual play. As you get older, you’re supposed to need more help, not less. You see any moves to beef up the talent around Brady for “one last run”. No. It’s all on Brady

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Speaking of failing, the Bronco’s qualified for the playoffs without him in that last season. Go ahead and look it up. And yes. Luck took the remnants of those Colts to the playoffs and had a winning record against Peyton to boot. How many QB’s have a winning record against Brady? And you have a tell. When you’re tired and ebbing you double down on the desperate lol’s and facts and failing references. Just facts.

You have failed time and time again. When presented with facts that 2 pther QBs have shined at NE, you ignored it. When presented that 2 teams absolutely failed misreably without Peyton, you ignored it. NE also qualified for the playoffs in 2008. Like I said, because of a tiebreaker they barely missed. Did they tank? Nope. Did their offense plummet? Nope.

Luck? Why do you think they were even in the position to draft him? Because Peyton left. Also, Luck was the #1 overall pick and was talked about as the most NFL ready QB since Manning. He was also talked about being the best pure prospect since Elway. So lets stop pretending like Manning was replaced by scrubs like Brady was. Jimmy G would have like.y led NE just as well. Belicheck wanted to trade Brady to keep Jimmy G. What does that tell you?

 

[butchna]

You have failed time and time again. When presented with facts that 2 pther QBs have shined at NE, you ignored it. When presented that 2 teams absolutely failed misreably without Peyton, you ignored it. NE also qualified for the playoffs in 2008. Like I said, because of a tiebreaker they barely missed. Did they tank? Nope. Did their offense plummet? Nope.

Luck? Why do you think they were even in the position to draft him? Because Peyton left. Also, Luck was the #1 overall pick and was talked about as the most NFL ready QB since Manning. He was also talked about being the best pure prospect since Elway. So lets stop pretending like Manning was replaced by scrubs like Brady was. Jimmy G would have like.y led NE just as well. Belicheck wanted to trade Brady to keep Jimmy G. What does that tell you?

Who was the other QB that “shined” for NE? Garrapallo for a few games? That wins a Scott Mitchell Memorial Award for getting paid. I think it’s your tendency to get greedy and not even concede that Brady is great. You don’t need to forsake being a disciple for that. Allow yourself to be honest with yourself. It’s been TWO seasons since Peyton retired and he got carried that last season...he even jokes about it. Minimalizing Brady by calling him a system QB is you lying to yourself...face it. No other NE QB since Belichick took over the reins has “shined” because if you don’t lead your team to the playoffs, your season is a failure. Brady wins championships for Belichick and ole Bill being the ultimate heartless wheeling dealing curmudgeon that he is. Him keeping Brady and only Brady throughout his tenure proves he knows Brady is the lynchpin of his dynasty and that Garrapalo tale was fiction. All the backup QB bull boils down to is that Belichick drafted and developed competent backups who could actually run an offense and the Colts settled for the Jim Sorgi’s and Curtis Painter’s of the world. Another QB was able to win with the Colts talent and even beat him at his new stop. No case example exists for Brady because he wins against every QB. Who has a winning record against him?

 

[Catbone]

Brady is the GOAT

 

[Behr]

Brady is the GOAT

Manning is the GOAT.

Now, let's start over.

 

[norrislakevol]

I know he wouldn’t have. Peyton would have had more success if he had let go of some his self imposed responsibilities. Cost him some championships. And except for the almost undefeated season, Brady always had lesser, lower drafted talent to work with.

We will definately have to agree to disagree on this one. Peyton made his receivers look like super stars and always had a much worse defense to have to deal with. I don't recall any of Peyton's receivers having greater success after they were not catching passes from him.

 

[butchna]

We will definately have to agree to disagree on this one. Peyton made his receivers look like super stars and always had a much worse defense to have to deal with. I don't recall any of Peyton's receivers having greater success after they were not catching passes from him.

Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon really didn’t suffer afterwards but the Colts never really let that type leave the roster. When I used to champion Peyton as the greatest, his ability to get the most out of other players on the team was a bullet point for him. On that note, who’s left the Patriots roster and starred elsewhere? Except for an already established HOFer Randy Moss and now Gronk, who’s that star pass catcher, period? Deion Branch? I’d apply the same dynamic to Brady as Peyton.

 

[norrislakevol]

Reggie Wayne and Pierre Garcon really didn’t suffer afterwards but the Colts never really let that type leave the roster. When I used to champion Peyton as the greatest, his ability to get the most out of other players on the team was a bullet point for him. On that note, who’s left the Patriots roster and starred elsewhere? Except for an already established HOFer Randy Moss and now Gronk, who’s that star pass catcher, period? Deion Branch? I’d apply the same dynamic to Brady as Peyton.

And if Peyton had had a better defense?? The Colts defense was very porous at times. Brady historically has had much better defenses to work with. Defense wins championships.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Manning never had a coach that could hold Belichicks moldy jock.

That's a big part of the difference in Super Bowl rings.

That being said, Brady has more rings and has done it with a revolving cast of skill players. Hard to argue against that as much as I prefer Manning.

 

[Alex10]

lol okay

Lets discuss the cats greatest ever nflQB.. have y’all ever even had one? I love how Kentucky fans talk all this trash at basketball season about how rich their history is and other programs are nothing because they haven’t won multiple titles, but then at football time you guys act like tradition doesn’t matter. I guess because your history in football is to be nothing more than a joke.

 

[Alex10]

And if Peyton had had a better defense?? The Colts defense was very porous at times. Brady historically has had much better defenses to work with. Defense wins championships.

But but but manning had a hall of fame wr!!! Haha just kidding, someone did actually say that to me on here though. Your spot on and has been a point I’ve tried to convey, although to no avail.

 

[reecetn]

LOL at the irony of the fact that a 10 year old kid can see the blatancy of what is really going on in new england.

Never mind the fact that ESPN outside the lines covered it in detail and no one even noticed. LOL except for Roger Goodell who went on Mike and MIke MINUTES after the story was released. Nothing to see here move along.

Poor new england fans it must be tiring to defend all the lies.

When Bill Belicheck, a self proclaimed "student of the game" football genius claimed he did not know taping practices and or walk throughs before a game was cheating? lmao no wonder a 10 year old can see it. I mean he has been reading for 5 plus years. What is your excuse???????

 

[Alex10]

lol okay

Answer this question for me simply brady or manning....during both of their primes who was surrounded by the better teams, organization and coach? I’m not saying Brady isn’t the GOAT but if you honestly think during their primes the colts overall organization( from coaches to players) was as good as the patriots then there really is no point in discussing it further, I mean it’s obvious, and that’s all I’m saying.

 

[Alex10]

I’ll add my last log to this fire.

For people that talk about rings and it’s not fair to bring up rings, etc.

For me, I look at a Joe Montana as being great as much for taking the KC chiefs to the AFC title game as a washed up old man as I do winning titles in SF.

When you think of Brady at 37+ taking his team to a Super Bowl in 4 out of 5 seasons and the skill position talent he’s had to work with, it’s beyond amazing. Gronk has been the only true stud and he’s hurt half the time.

And contrary to popular opinion, the pats have not been fielding elite defenses the last several years. That’s not the 85 bears out there. The Mcginest, Law, Bruschi, Harrison teams had great defenses. These teams. Stop.

So, yeah, they should have lost to Seattle. They had no business competing with Seattle. Yeah, they should have lost to Atlanta. They had no business competing with Atlanta. They won a coin toss against KC. There isn’t a GM anywhere that would take the NE roster over KC. Not one.

Greatness is elevating your team through your individual play. As you get older, you’re supposed to need more help, not less. You see any moves to beef up the talent around Brady for “one last run”. No. It’s all on Brady

I agree with what your saying, also in the middle of your post your proving the only point I’ve been trying to make true... I have only been referencing what they both had in their primes, those 10 or so years when manning was with the colts... for much of Brady’s prime he had those elite Defenses your referencing... I remember back then if I turned on sportsenter I knew the patriots had already won most times, why? Because they always had a good game plan, well coached, and played very balanced ( good O and D.) all you had to do was look at Manning’s stat line to tell if the colts had won or not.... did manning throw for 300 plus yards? No? Then the colts prolly lost. I’m not saying Brady isn’t a great QB because he certainly is and he gets the GOAT thing because of his post season wins and losses, that’s fine he should. I believe he had a lot more help around him DURING HIS PRIME than manning did. From a pure talent perspective I’ve always thought manning was the more talented QB, you can call it homerism if you want even though I’m not even a huge manning fan ( I was to young to remember him playing for UT.) and he spent most of his career carving up my titans. So again call me a homer I guess.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

There's a Wildcat kid who won a science fair exhibit proving Brady is a cheat.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/24/10-year-old-proves-tom-brady-is-a-cheater-wins-science-fair/

 

[Behr]

Wow.

 

[butchna]

And if Peyton had had a better defense?? The Colts defense was very porous at times. Brady historically has had much better defenses to work with. Defense wins championships.

When we’re down to arguing fantasy hypothetical “what if’s” then we’re driving around in a circle and arguing with the exit sign. I look at the reality of what each did with what they had. Manning is great. If one’s determined to consider him the GOAT? Perfectly entitled especially considering I used to be one of you on that.

 

[butchna]

But but but manning had a hall of fame wr!!! Haha just kidding, someone did actually say that to me on here though. Your spot on and has been a point I’ve tried to convey, although to no avail.

Reggie Wayne will make it also. Dallas Clark would be borderline if healthier.

 

[Big Al Orange]

He’s a horrible human being. Dropped his girlfriend when she was having his baby...amongst other low class moments. Has nothing to do with him being a great football player...see Lawrence Taylor. He’s taken less talented teams to almost 3 times as many championships...and prolly isn’t done yet.

All this sounds like old women in the beauty parlor the day after a local beauty pageant. “ Well Kameka should have won”!!!! “ Nooo Sherka was finer than Kameka”!!! Ect. Ect. Heck they’re both great QBs. The biggest difference is one smiles and eats pizza while the other cries and eats buggers. Come on take a little walk with me honey and tell me who do you love.

 

[Mtnvol80]

Everybody keeps saying the "the system". What exactly is the system and if it's so bullet proof why isn't every team in the country running it? This should be an easy question

 

[butchna]

Everybody keeps saying the "the system". What exactly is the system and if it's so bullet proof why isn't every team in the country running it? This should be an easy question

Great point! Joe Montana and Steve Young benefitted from Walsh’s West Coast offense. Why aren’t Jim Drunkenmiller, Elvis Grbac and Jeff Garcia in Canton? You’re great or you’re not.