The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#101
#101
k-town_king said:
Yes. I'm 6'3 and played at a decent level once upon a time. I know a 6'6 ripped dude that is 216-218 is much tougher to handle than a chubby 6'5 guy that is 220. Just like a ripped 6'8 230 guy like Pip or Nique is also a tougher matchup.

If Mike was actually 195 or something you could have an argument. Not once person thinks MJ played the bulk of his career and his prime at anything around 195. I'll take the muscular guy over the three or four pounds.

Also we know for a fact that Harden is an average athlete by NBA standards and the other were all elite with Jordan being the greatest athlete ever. Those other guys are beasts physically. Harden is crafty but not a great athlete. Yes he weighs more than Mike and is shorter. I doubt he is stronger because he is not as in good shape. Mike hit the weights hard. I don't think Harden trains like he did.
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If you're saying 1991 MJ is 216, then 1998 MJ is at least 230+. No fkn way.

Why do you think MJ trained hard and Harden doesn't? Harden has a physique that makes it harder to get cut and he's cut. I'm not impressed at all by the weight I've seen MJ work with. Do you know something I don't know. You'll just assume whatever you need to, regardless of validity.
 
#103
#103
Like I said, I'm not that strong and I workout with more weight than this...

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#104
#104
The documentary hasn’t shown yet and I’m already tired of people defending what an ******* Michael Jordan was
 
#106
#106
zjcvols said:
The documentary hasn’t shown yet and I’m already tired of people defending what an ******* Michael Jordan was
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He reminds me a lot of Tiger Woods. They both strike me as introverted guys with big egos. What I'm waiting for is to see how much they gloss over the gambling and the weirdness surrounding his Dad's murder and subsequent first "retirement". I've always thought that there were some shenanigans going on and the NBA basically told him to go away for awhile.
 
#109
#109
I'm so out of touch with the young generation that I didn't even know MJ had doubters/detractors. Russillo's been going off on them and I didn't know they existed.

"Part of this athletically/physically is not going to hold up. I don't like dumping on the previous generation....they didn't work out the same way. They didn't work on the same skills. They didn't have the population numbers where it's that man sharpens man thing later generations go through because you have to start playing at such an early age against older guys. So I don't just like dissing every previous generation...I've gone back and watched MJ stuff a little bit more the last few weeks....hey, do you guys want to keep saying how hard the defense was back then, because imagine if there was a website where you could type in these games and actually watch them?...and then there will be some Lebron guys...that have probably never watched any of this Jordan stuff where they're going to have a real moment, an awakening, where they go 'Oh wow, this guy was special.'"
 
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#110
#110
95 Vol Alum said:
I hadn’t noticed that going on here.
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All I've heard on that is he himself said people are going to think he's a horrible guy.

I saw an excerpt about Jordan's injury and how he was fighting the doctor's advice that he had a 10% chance to ruin his career if he came back too early. His response to the doctor's metaphor was so utterly stupid but people just go "Oh, he had killer instinct". I don't care about his being a jerk, it drives me crazy when people are dumb as hell, get away with it, and then they're praised for taking an unnecessary risk (in this case, just to play in more regular season games). Some dumbass kid somewhere is going to think that hard-headed machismo is where it's at and they're going to ruin their HS/college career.
 
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#111
#111
n_huffhines said:
I'm so out of touch with the young generation that I didn't even know MJ had doubters/detractors. Russillo's been going off on them and I didn't even know they existed.
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It's a very real thing. My 17 year old is dreading this documentary because he knows it will be 10 nights of me pointing and saying "I told you!" They'll buy into Kobe, but they can't fathom anybody from 25 years ago being dynamic enough to be in the Lebron/Harden/Durant/Steph/Westbrook category.
 
#113
#113
GAVol said:
I was talking about the proof being a Google image search.
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Oh, LOL. So I've got this memory of unimpressive Jordan workout footage from the 90's, the pictures to back them up, and he's got an unsupported guess...I'd rather be me.
 
#114
#114
GAVol said:
It's a very real thing. My 17 year old is dreading this documentary because he knows it will be 10 nights of me pointing and saying "I told you!" They'll buy into Kobe, but they can't fathom anybody from 25 years ago being dynamic enough to be in the Lebron/Harden/Durant/Steph/Westbrook category.
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It's crazy. I'm not an anti-Jordan guy. I believe Jordan at his peak is the most dominant player ever, but I gotta push back on people that won't even entertain the idea that Lebron (or Kareem, or Magic) is the GOAT. We don't actually know what he'd do in this era and what Lebron would do in his era unless we see it.

I mean, the game is so different now. It was a big deal to have a good crossover in the 90's, LOL.
 
#115
#115
n_huffhines said:
It's crazy. I'm not an anti-Jordan guy. I believe Jordan at his peak is the most dominant player ever, but I gotta push back on people that won't even entertain the idea that Lebron (or Kareem, or Magic) is the GOAT. We don't actually know what he'd do in this era and what Lebron would do in his era unless we see it.

I mean, the game is so different now. It was a big deal to have a good crossover in the 90's, LOL.
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It's unknowable. I'm old enough to remember the last few years of Kareem and he was still an offensive threat at the end when he was walking up and down the court half the time. Magic was a less athletic Lebron but with insane court vision. I always thought his mini comeback was amazing. He showed back up in his late in his late 30s after years with HIV and basically ran the offense while playing as a hybrid 4!?
 
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#116
#116
n_huffhines said:
It's crazy. I'm not an anti-Jordan guy. I believe Jordan at his peak is the most dominant player ever, but I gotta push back on people that won't even entertain the idea that Lebron (or Kareem, or Magic) is the GOAT. We don't actually know what he'd do in this era and what Lebron would do in his era unless we see it.

I mean, the game is so different now. It was a big deal to have a good crossover in the 90's, LOL.
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It doesn't matter what he would do in this era. He dominated in an era many consider superior or just as good as today.

What he did was far superior to what anyone else has done in any other era. He also has the stats and accolades to back it up.

Jordan is in a category by himself. No there is no debate to be made. The debate is between Kobe, Magic, Lebron, Bird, and Kareem for the next tier.

MJ accomplished more before his first retirement then Lebron in almost a decade more. Half the games and more accomplishments. Lets not even compare stats from before the last few years drug down his averages.

 
#117
#117
They played against different teams and players. Jordan was part of the greatest super team of all time in a watered down league that had recently had tons of expansion that wasn't supported by talent.

Lebron beat what would have been the greatest team of all time. Overall, the teams are so much deeper now because we have only expanded the league one time in 20+ years and the talent pool is bigger.

You can't just count awards and titles and end the convo there.

Jordan retired and a one man show won the title. That's how great the league was. Imagine no Middleton on the Bucks and they win the title...they probably can't even win it with Middleton. They couldn't even make the finals with Brogdon and Middleton.
 
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#118
#118
n_huffhines said:
They played against different teams and players. Jordan was part of the greatest super team of all time in a watered down league that had recently had tons of expansion that wasn't supported by talent.

Lebron beat what would have been the greatest team of all time. Overall, the teams are so much deeper now because we have only expanded the league one time in 20+ years and the talent pool is bigger.

You can't just count awards and titles and end the convo there.

Jordan retired and a one man show won the title. That's how great the league was. Imagine no Middleton on the Bucks and they win the title...they probably can't even win it with Middleton.
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LMAO. JOrdan was the superteam . He couldn't beat a greatest team of all time because his team's were the greatest team due to him.

Stop with the Jordan had a ton of help and Lebron had none bs. Lebron had much more help. Lebron never won with less than two All Star teammates. At the most MJ had one on his teams. MJ had the lowest scoring supporting casts. Lebron had more help and less success.
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Also MJ Teammate ALL Star appearances is only 11 to 44 for Lebron.

Jordan has as many titiles and FMVPs and teammates whho were All Stars the season Jordan played with them.
MJ did much more with much, much, much less.
 
#119
#119
k-town_king said:
LMAO. JOrdan was the superteam . He couldn't beat a greatest team of all time because his team's were the greatest team due to him.

Stop with the Jordan had a ton of help and Lebron had none bs. Lebron had much more help. Lebron never won with less than two All Star teammates. At the most MJ had one on his teams. MJ had the lowest scoring supporting casts. Lebron had more help and less success.
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Also MJ Teammate ALL Star appearances is only 11 to 44 for Lebron.

Jordan has as many titiles and FMVPs and teammates whho were All Stars the season Jordan played with them.
MJ did much more with much, much, much less.
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Jordan was winning finals games 82-78 and you think it means something that his teammates didn't score 20 when he's taking 25 shots.

You just cherry pick the hell out of everything to create this completely biased narrative. You have no ability to reason. Horace Grant was 4x all defensive but we're not counting those. We're counting all star appearances because counting all defensive honors would favor Lebron.
 
#120
#120
Lebron - 0 all defensive teammates. Not once that I can see.

MJ - teammates got defensive honors 7x and that's just counting title seasons.

But yeah, let's just count 20 pt scorers in finals from completely different eras in terms of pace, as if that means anything.
 
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#123
#123
n_huffhines said:
Lebron - 0 all defensive teammates. Not once that I can see.

MJ - teammates got defensive honors 7x and that's just counting title seasons.

But yeah, let's just count 20 pt scorers in finals from completely different eras in terms of pace, as if that means anything.
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Larry Hughes was an All Defensive Team player and All Star the year before he got with Lebron.

I would also take 44 All Stars over 7 defensive team appearance from 2 guys. Lebron had more help. Its a fact. Way more All Stars. Multiple All Star teammates in a single year. Multiple teammates that averaged 25 plus in the Finals.

MJ had Pip.

Lebron has had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love. Not to mention other All stars like Z and Mo Williams. Then the Ray Allens and such. He had much more help.

Just watch. Obviously words and data won't sway you. You will see.

There is Mike . . .








Then everyone else down here.
 
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