The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#127
#127
k-town_king said:
Larry Hughes was an All Defensive Team player and All Star the year before he got with Lebron.

I would also take 44 All Stars over 7 defensive team appearance from 2 guys. Lebron had more help. Its a fact. Way more All Stars. Multiple All Star teammates in a single year. Multiple teammates that averaged 25 plus in the Finals.

MJ had Pip.

Lebron has had Wade, Bosh, Kyrie, Love. Not to mention other All stars like Z and Mo Williams. Then the Ray Allens and such. He had much more help.

Just watch. Obviously words and data won't sway you. You will see.

There is Mike . . .








Then everyone else down here.
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Count up all the years MJ spent with Grant, Pippen, and Rodman then.

It's no contest, no matter how you want to manipulate it. That second 3peat was 100% about the dominant defense and you're complaining about not having 20 pt scorers to help him. People say MJ needed Scottie...he needed more than that. 0 finals appearances without a great PF.
 
#129
#129
n_huffhines said:
Count up all the years MJ spent with Grant, Pippen, and Rodman then.

It's no contest, no matter how you want to manipulate it. That second 3peat was 100% about the dominant defense and you're complaining about not having 20 pt scorers to help him. People say MJ needed Scottie...he needed more than that. 0 finals appearances without a great PF.
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Grant? He was not an All Star. I guess you can count the one courtesy appearance when Mike wasn't on the team with him.
Rodman wasn't an All Star with Mike.
Pip was also injured a couple of playoff runs.

Pip was the only one. Kyrie and Wade are both better. Just as many or more accolades besides number of chips. Wade actually Mj'd a team to a title himself.

Love, Bosh are better all around and more talented than Grant and then Rodman who replaced him. Hell Boozer and Big Z have more All Star appearances than them.

MJ literally only had one All Star teammate and that was only six times.

Lebron has had seven different PLAYERS make at least one All Star team with him the same year.

If you are counting Rodman and also Grant with his one appearance with Mike not on the team I guess we need to bring up Ray, Larry Hughes, Wally Sczerbiak, rashard Lewis, Stackhouse, Shaq, Antwan jamison, Rondo, Tyson chandler, Ben Wallace, Z, Mo williams etc. I can name a million guys Lebron played with who were All Stars. MJ did not have that support.


Six to 15 all star appearances in the same year. We saw what happened last year when he doesn't have another All Star beside him. When Pip got sick or hurt all Mike would do is drop 50 to make up for it. No excuses like L3-6ron has.
 
#130
#130
k-town_king said:
Grant? He was not an All Star. I guess you can count the one courtesy appearance when Mike wasn't on the team with him.
Rodman wasn't an All Star with Mike.
Pip was also injured a couple of playoff runs.

Pip was the only one. Kyrie and Wade are both better. Just as many or more accolades besides number of chips. Wade actually Mj'd a team to a title himself.

Love, Bosh are better all around and more talented than Grant and then Rodman who replaced him. Hell Boozer and Big Z have more All Star appearances than them.

MJ literally only had one All Star teammate and that was only six times.

Lebron has had seven different PLAYERS make at least one All Star team with him the same year.

If you are counting Rodman and also Grant with his one appearance with Mike not on the team I guess we need to bring up Ray, Larry Hughes, Wally Sczerbiak, rashard Lewis, Stackhouse, Shaq, Antwan jamison, Rondo, Tyson chandler, Ben Wallace, Z, Mo williams etc. I can name a million guys Lebron played with who were All Stars. MJ did not have that support.


Six to 15 all star appearances in the same year. We saw what happened last year when he doesn't have another All Star beside him. When Pip got sick or hurt all Mike would do is drop 50 to make up for it. No excuses like L3-6ron has.
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There's a lot here that is contradictory of what you say.
 
#134
#134
Notorious B.E.N said:
Im wondering which title Wade "MJ'd" a team to by himself?
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The one with Shaq in the semi-****** 2000's.

Again, he'll get no argument from me about how mediocre the NBA was during this transitional stage. There was a decline of superstars and the league needed to adjust to transformative rule changes
 
#137
#137
When Jordan had the best team, he won. He never won a title when he didn't have the best team.

When Lebron had the best team, he won except against Dallas, but then he won one when he didn't have the best team. He might do it again this year.
 
#139
#139
n_huffhines said:
When Jordan had the best team, he won. He never won a title when he didn't have the best team.

When Lebron had the best team, he won except against Dallas, but then he won one when he didn't have the best team. He might do it again this year.
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He had the best team solely due to being on the team. Wade was a better player than Pip. No question. Kyrie is close. Both put better numbers than Pip in the Finals. Kyrie put up 27 4 and 4 and hit one of the most clutch shots ever.

MJ never had someone within even 5 ppg of him on his team, he definitely never got outscored by a teammate and an All Star and one ok player from the other team in a Finals series.

In finals
Wade 26.5 best ppg
Kyrie 29.4 4 4
also 27 4 4

Pip best Finals 21.2 ppg ,two Finals averaging 15.7. Even a "broke down" Wade averaged 20 and 15 the other two years he didn't outscore Lebron.


Notorious B.E.N said:
I was assuming that was his answer but he had Shaq, he wasn't by himself.
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Shaq? The guy who averaged 30 at his prime was putting up the third most points at 13.7 BEHIND washed Antoine Walker and his whopping 13.8 ppg.
Shaq was done. Wade AND Bosh put up over 20 ppg but got hurt after Lebron left.

Wade put up almost 35 with the next guy at less than 14. he had an Mj like performance that series.
DfEKHHVUcAEuR66
 
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#140
#140
k-town_king said:
He had the best team solely due to being on the team. Wade was a better player than Pip. No question. Kyrie is close. Both put better numbers than Pip in the Finals. Kyrie put up 27 4 and 4 and hit one of the most clutch shots ever.

MJ never had someone within even 5 ppg of him on his team, he definitely never got outscored by a teammate and an All Star and one ok player from the other team in a Finals series.

In finals
Wade 26.5 best ppg
Kyrie 29.4 4 4
also 27 4 4

Pip best Finals 21.2 ppg ,two Finals averaging 15.7. Even a "broke down" Wade averaged 20 and 15 the other two years he didn't outscore Lebron.



Shaq? The guy who averaged 30 at his prime was putting up the third most points at 13.7 BEHIND washed Antoine Walker and his whopping 13.8 ppg.
Shaq was done. Wade AND Bosh put up over 20 ppg but got hurt after Lebron left.

Wade put up almost 35 with the next guy at less than 14. he had an Mj like performance that series.
DfEKHHVUcAEuR66
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He has several more added since the graphic was made. This doesn't even have Ad on it.
 
#142
#142
Remember when the '94 Bulls won 55 games without MJ?

MJ had all the help in the world
 
#147
#147
95 Vol Alum said:
I’ll go with one year doesn’t represent a decade as my favorite response.
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This is true.

The Blazers were not a great team. The Lakers were a one man show in 1991. The Jazz were great but old. The Suns were a great team. The Sonics were great but had no bench. The Rockets were a one man show and beat an unimpressive Knicks team. Then they were a 2-man show and beat a pretty great, but young, Magic team. Spreewell was the best player on a finals team.

There were 4 great teams last year alone. This year we had 3. The Bucks and Rockets are better than at least 3 of those 90's finals teams, IMO.
 
#148
#148
Notorious B.E.N said:
Why yes I do remember that. Buncha nobodies were only 2 games worse without him.
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...and got bounced in the 2nd round by the Knicks. And then won about 10 less the next season.

Pippen and Kukoc throttled it back to give MJ his touches. After that, what was left of Ron Harper, Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman were really good. The rest of those rosters from the 90s were pretty pedestrian.
 
#149
#149
GAVol said:
...and got bounced in the 2nd round by the Knicks. And then won about 10 less the next season.

Pippen and Kukoc throttled it back to give MJ his touches. After that, what was left of Ron Harper, Horace Grant and Dennis Rodman were really good. The rest of those rosters from the 90s were pretty pedestrian.
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With no Grant.
 
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