The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#201
#201
Dantley for the mf win!

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#202
#202
Dantley is really underrated, probably because he played in Utah and was never seen on national TV and then because of the perception that trading him for Aguirre is the move that made the Pistons champions (which I think is unfair).
 
#203
#203
I have been in the camp that Jordan is the goat my whole life. I appreciate the greatness of LeBron, and I thought my opinion was objective based on my having seen them both play. After watching this last night, I realize I was wrong. When they played the intro song at the ring ceremony, I was a 10 year old fan boy all over again. There is probably nothing objective about my opinion, and I'm ok with that. Like most other things in life, you become harder to impress as you get older, and you see things more critically. Jordan was magical to me - almost like watching a superhero. I don't think anything can capture your imagination as a late 30's adult the same way it could as a 10 year old child, so for my money, there will never be anyone on the same level as MJ.
 
#204
#204
This is to me the greatest playoff performance in NBA history

 
#205
#205
Ultimately, I blame the Bulls' brass for the breakup, because they had the control and should have kept that thing going*, but Scottie was such a baby about his agreed upon contract, Kukoc coming in, etc. and MJ was so petty with Krause. The breakup doesn't happen if they ac' right.

BTW, Krause made the right call to bench Jordan. They had a first-round exit in the playoffs and missed their chance at drafting Ron Harper in a very weak draft. What GM would risk his franchise's future, and essentially trade back in the draft for a first-round exit?

* the East was pretty weak for the next 5 years...they might've made 2-3 more finals.
 
#206
#206
volsarelife1 said:
You still left out the records. And didn't even mention the Cavs going from best record
with LeBron. To worst without him. Wonder why you skipped over that. I'm sure that was by accident.
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n_huffhines said:
Or that several guys were injured when Lebron played for the Lakers in year 1.
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n_huffhines said:
And no Rodman and no Pippen, LOL

Dude, how do you even think this is a valid point? Do you think we don't know?

I didn't bring up Lebron leaving the Heat because I don't think it's fair to compare them with Bosh and Wade being banged up, but you have no shame about this ****.
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The Bulls went from best in the league to worst by far when Mike left. The Heat went from tied for fifth in the league (lmao) to 18 games worse and still nowhere near the worst team in the league. If Wade and Bosh don't get hurt the Heat are a playoff team.


Injuries skewed the records for the Heat. So lets look at the three years after each left their team.

Heat LBJ last year 54-28 (tied for fifth best)
Yr 1 37-45
Yr 2 48-34 Conf semis
Yr 3 41-41
By year two after Lebron, back to the playoffs and only 6 games worse than the last Lebron year. Year three with no stars from the champions they were a .500 team only 13 games worse than LBJ's last year.

Bulls MJ last year 62-20 (tied for best)
Yr 1 13-37
Yr 2 17-65
Yr 3 15-67

No MJ worst team in league by far. Not even sniffing within 20 games of .500. Bulls were much worse when MJ left. By year three the Heat were fighting for the playoffs with no Wade or LBJ. The Bulls were fighting to win 18 games.
 
#210
#210
k-town_king said:
The Bulls went from best in the league to worst by far when Mike left. The Heat went from tied for fifth in the league (lmao) to 18 games worse and still nowhere near the worst team in the league. If Wade and Bosh don't get hurt the Heat are a playoff team.


Injuries skewed the records for the Heat. So lets look at the three years after each left their team.

Heat LBJ last year 54-28 (tied for fifth best)
Yr 1 37-45
Yr 2 48-34 Conf semis
Yr 3 41-41
By year two after Lebron, back to the playoffs and only 6 games worse than the last Lebron year. Year three with no stars from the champions they were a .500 team only 13 games worse than LBJ's last year.

Bulls MJ last year 62-20 (tied for best)
Yr 1 13-37
Yr 2 17-65
Yr 3 15-67

No MJ worst team in league by far. Not even sniffing within 20 games of .500. Bulls were much worse when MJ left. By year three the Heat were fighting for the playoffs with no Wade or LBJ. The Bulls were fighting to win 18 games.
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And still left out what the Cavs record was before and after.
 
#211
#211
#212
#212
Russillo and Simmons (Bill's seen the whole thing) were talking about how the doc short-changes Horace Grant. Russillo had a good quote on him,

"I like Horace more watching these games now than I did in the moment. I think I'm just older and more experienced at watching basketball. But there's so many plays in between...keeping a rebound alive, getting an offensive rebound and immediately kicking before the defense can set back up...he could run all day with you. And Horace ages better than maybe we appreciate. He was a really important player for this team because he accepted all this stuff. He's a perfect compliment to these wing players."
 
#213
#213
I love Reggie. He was the only guy with Jordan's stones and he had 1/2 the talent. He wasn't afraid of the moment, MJ, or anything. I still can't figure out how he took the '98 Bulls to 7 games.

Screenshot_20200422-185124_Facebook.jpg
 
#215
#215
Klosterman and Simmons were joking about how Jordan called Pippen his greatest teammate in the doc as if that was a magnanimous thing to say.

Paraphrasing: How about calling him the 2nd best player in the league? How about saying "I'm glad I didn't have to face the best defender of my era".
 
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#216
#216
k-town_king said:

Fax
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Brian Shaw would struggle to make the league today and he was 6th man on a finals team in 1995. Comparing awards, accolades, and brass between eras is so flawed. Count how many teams in this era now either have two legitimate stars and a deep team or they're a superteam with 3 stars. In the 90's there were two superteams....the Bulls and the old Rockets. That's it. Imagine how hard it must've been to win titles when you're the only super team. Count how many teams had two legitimate stars and went 8 deep? The bad boys? Is that it?

Spurs x3, Thunder, Warriors x 4...Lebron has been to the finals 9 times and faced a super team 8 times. MJ never did. The Sonics were close enough, let's give him that.
 
#217
#217
n_huffhines said:
Brian Shaw would struggle to make the league today and he was 6th man on a finals team in 1995. Comparing awards, accolades, and brass between eras is so flawed. Count how many teams in this era now either have two legitimate stars and a deep team or they're a superteam with 3 stars. In the 90's there were two superteams....the Bulls and the old Rockets. That's it. Imagine how hard it must've been to win titles when you're the only super team. Count how many teams had two legitimate stars and went 8 deep? The bad boys? Is that it?

Spurs x3, Thunder, Warriors x 4...Lebron has been to the finals 9 times and faced a super team 8 times. MJ never did. The Sonics were close enough, let's give him that.
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Shaw could never make it when you have dynamic physical beasts like Barea who was the Sixth man of a team that beat LeBron.

The Warriors had two to three great players. Every team MJ played had as much or more. He faced HOF duos every Finals.

Plus Jordan faced those types of teams in conference. The Knicks, Pistons, and Pacers all had teams he faced that were better than any team LeBron played except for Finals.
 
#218
#218
Uh oh, somebody broke rank

"I think this generation [of players] is not getting enough credit for what they're doing," Thomas said. "Because the athletes that are in this generation are so far superior than what was in my generation. [When we were playing], Jordan was the best athlete that we had ever seen, [but] from an athletic standpoint, there are like 10 or 11 guys in the NBA right now with Jordan's athleticism. We didn't have that back then. With what [Kevin Durant] and LeBron are doing, if you put them back in the era of the '80s, with their talent, their athleticism and their skill, who's the GOAT?"

Isiah Thomas disputes Michael Jordan's GOAT status, says LeBron James, Kevin Durant would've dominated in '80s
 
#220
#220
n_huffhines said:
Uh oh, somebody broke rank

"I think this generation [of players] is not getting enough credit for what they're doing," Thomas said. "Because the athletes that are in this generation are so far superior than what was in my generation. [When we were playing], Jordan was the best athlete that we had ever seen, [but] from an athletic standpoint, there are like 10 or 11 guys in the NBA right now with Jordan's athleticism. We didn't have that back then. With what [Kevin Durant] and LeBron are doing, if you put them back in the era of the '80s, with their talent, their athleticism and their skill, who's the GOAT?"

Isiah Thomas disputes Michael Jordan's GOAT status, says LeBron James, Kevin Durant would've dominated in '80s
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Lol... yeah... no axe to grind there.
 
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#222
#222
GAVol said:
Lol... yeah... no axe to grind there.
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He didn't even say Jordan isn't the best. He said the league is better now. He essentially threw everybody (including himself) from his era under the bus except Jordan, so...
 
#223
#223
n_huffhines said:
Is he wrong?
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Not entirely, no.

He is in suggesting that KD is somehow in the GOAT conversation regardless of decade. LeBron is in the convo regardless and likely could play 80s-90s ball at a high level.

Is there something in MJ‘s game you see as not translatable to today? I find this idea of MJ not being able to compete with guys like LeBron and KD as completely absurd. It is like people aren’t paying attention to how he is wired.
 
#224
#224
n_huffhines said:
He didn't even say Jordan isn't the best. He said the league is better now. He essentially threw everybody (including himself) from his era under the bus except Jordan, so...
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He literally asks the question to imply that perhaps it’s not MJ. What is his point in all that other than to suggest that maybe MJ really isn’t the greatest. Same narrative and logic you use here.
 
#225
#225
95 Vol Alum said:
He literally asks the question to imply that perhaps it’s not MJ. What is his point in all that other than to suggest that maybe MJ really isn’t the greatest. Same narrative and logic you use here.
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So he trashed himself and his peers so that he could imply Jordan maybe isn't the GOAT? Why not just say MJ isn't the GOAT?
 
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