The Last Dance - A 10-PART DOCUMENTARY EVENT

#252
#252
I’ve always liked Phil. The Last Dance has just solidified that. Love the aura and just peacefulness about him. Hell just the way he dealt with Rodman says a lot.
 
#253
#253
n_huffhines said:
He didn't even say Jordan isn't the best. He said the league is better now. He essentially threw everybody (including himself) from his era under the bus except Jordan, so...
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Back then, they barely called a foul and you were beat bloody. (See the Pistons) You had Jordan, Magic, Byrd, etc. I think Jordan is the best.
n_huffhines said:
Uh oh, somebody broke rank

"I think this generation [of players] is not getting enough credit for what they're doing," Thomas said. "Because the athletes that are in this generation are so far superior than what was in my generation. [When we were playing], Jordan was the best athlete that we had ever seen, [but] from an athletic standpoint, there are like 10 or 11 guys in the NBA right now with Jordan's athleticism. We didn't have that back then. With what [Kevin Durant] and LeBron are doing, if you put them back in the era of the '80s, with their talent, their athleticism and their skill, who's the GOAT?"

Isiah Thomas disputes Michael Jordan's GOAT status, says LeBron James, Kevin Durant would've dominated in '80s
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They played much dirtier back then. No protection like they have now, so it's easier to show your athleticism. Jordan is the goat, no question.
 
#254
#254
JCP201 said:
Back then, they barely called a foul and you were beat bloody. (See the Pistons) You had Jordan, Magic, Byrd, etc. I think Jordan is the best.

They played much dirtier back then. No protection like they have now, so it's easier to show your athleticism. Jordan is the goat, no question.
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The game was more physical but the violence is so completely exaggerated it's ridiculous. They called fouls all the time.

"I'm gonna say this every time we go back and watch these games...I'm not saying the defense is overrated, I'm saying the defense is over-stated. It's basic. It's guarding less area but guys actually made layups without broken limbs and just remember that next time you say a guy in today's era couldn't handle the physical nature of their game." - Russillo

This highlight shows every drive to the basket and every foul. He's not fouled hard one time. They're so soft. Why didn't they put him in the ER if that's how it was? Why didn't they hammer him just once? 55 points and tons of layups.

 
#255
#255
@JCP201 check this 46 pt highlight against the bad boys out. He gets to the basket 11 times without getting clobbered. There were only 2 hard fouls and neither is vicious. The first one comes after 7 easy layups and the announcer says "no easy layups at this point in the season" lol. There were certainly some vicious fouls back in the day but it was the exception to the rule.

 
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#256
#256
People create a false narrative based on highlights that are strung together with hard fouls from the past, but it's not representative of the norm. It's just cherry-picking. You can do the same thing with today's "soft" game and tell that same misleading story. These are all from this shortened season.

 
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#257
#257
EWnR426XkAAyoxi
 
#258
#258
Says you can cherry pick fouls to paint a narrative.

Uses cherry picked foul video to dispute a narrative.

I laughed.
 
#259
#259
There is not one NBA player now as athletic as Jordan. Not now not ever. Definitely not 10 or 11.

MJ has the highest vertical ever, unparalleled hangtime and creativity in the air, elite speed, and added strength when he needed to.
 
#260
#260
This is a fun cherry picked video from one season and 2 teams. Especially when the ref drags Pippen off the court after taking an elbow to the head that would be a flagrant in today's game (5:17).

 
#261
#261
95 Vol Alum said:
Says you can cherry pick fouls to paint a narrative.

Uses cherry picked foul video to dispute a narrative.

I laughed.
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I didn't cherry-pick. I picked two games at random, but just assume away. Actually, it wasn't all that random. I picked the Pistons game specifically because I figured that would be where the carnage is.
 
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#262
#262
95 Vol Alum said:
This is a fun cherry picked video from one season and 2 teams. Especially when the ref drags Pippen off the court after taking an elbow to the head that would be a flagrant in today's game (5:17).

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So they played each other 12 times that year and somebody made a 6' highlight mostly filled with nothing. Did you even watch it? It took 2' to finally show a hard foul. A lot of it is just harmless shoving and ball-throwing. I counted four hard fouls, none against MJ. Be better at cherry-picking. Even if you want to completely exaggerate and say every incident in there is brutal, I don't think that even adds up to 1 per game
 
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#263
#263
n_huffhines said:
I didn't cherry-pick. I picked two games at random, but just assume away. Actually, it wasn't all that random. I picked the Pistons game specifically because I figured that would be where the carnage is.
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I was referring to the video from this season. Calm down.
 
#264
#264
95 Vol Alum said:
I was referring to the video from this season. Calm down.
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Quick! Pivot!

The whole point was to illustrate that you can cherry-pick and create a misleading narrative with today's game. I explained that in the post.

"It's just cherry-picking. You can do the same thing with today's 'soft' game"
 
#265
#265
n_huffhines said:
So they played each other 10 times that year and somebody made a 6' highlight mostly filled with nothing. Did you even watch it? It took 2' to finally show a hard foul. A lot of it is just harmless shoving and ball-throwing. I counted four hard fouls, none against MJ. Be better at cherry-picking. Even if you want to completely exaggerate and say every incident in there is brutal, I don't think that even adds up to 1 per game
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It was just topical given the Pistons/IT/MJ and hard play discussion. It was the dragging Pippen off the floor that made me share it - I don't think you'd see that from officials today.

And yes, I watched it. I posted a specific time in the video for folks to go check out and said it was cherry picked. You've been in the PF too long.
 
#266
#266
n_huffhines said:
Quick! Pivot!

The whole point was to illustrate that you can cherry-pick and create a misleading narrative with today's game. I explained that in the post.
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I agree. I thought it was funny that you did the same thing (I assumed by intention).

Not sure what I am pivoting to or from.
 
#268
#268
n_huffhines said:
@JCP201 check this 46 pt highlight against the bad boys out. He gets to the basket 11 times without getting clobbered. There were only 2 hard fouls and neither is vicious. The first one comes after 7 easy layups and the announcer says "no easy layups at this point in the season" lol. There were certainly some vicious fouls back in the day but it was the exception to the rule.

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Way to show the least physical team of the era besides the Warriors. They were the Rockets of their day.
 
#269
#269
EWnfSavUwAMTCdh


Hughes was an All Star and All NBA defender the year before he got with lebron. Pip was an NAIA player the year before he got with MJ.
 
#270
#270
I think when people talk about the hard fouls, etc now vs "then", they may be specifically remembering the Bad Boys (who clearly embraced their physicality relative to the rest of the league) and the Knicks who were pretty physical as well (and a good team for folks to remember).

No one looks back and thinks about the Mavericks or Nets or Clippers from those days who probably were pretty soft and not as athletic which you've noted.

They are also likely speaking to how the game was officiated. Some of the flagrant fouls today were likely standard fouls or not even called back then. The style of play (quick shots), use of replay, illegal D (zone), and hand checking play a role but tough to quantify the true impact - just different play.
 
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#271
#271
95 Vol Alum said:
I think when people talk about the hard fouls, etc now vs "then", they may be specifically remembering the Bad Boys (who clearly embraced their physicality relative to the rest of the league) and the Knicks who were pretty physical as well (and a good team for folks to remember).

No one looks back and thinks about the Mavericks or Nets or Clippers from those days who probably were pretty soft and not as athletic which you've noted.

They are also likely speaking to how the game was officiated. Some of the flagrant fouls today were likely standard fouls or not even called back then. The style of play (quick shots), use of replay, illegal D (zone), and hand checking play a role but tough to quantify the true impact - just different play.
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It's definitely harder to get away with a flagrant today and what constitutes a flagrant is a little softer. That Lambeer elbow was a pretty natural play. It was definitely careless but not clearly intentional. They might've missed it today and then got him with replay.
 
#272
#272
n_huffhines said:
It's definitely harder to get away with a flagrant today and what constitutes a flagrant is a little softer. That Lambeer elbow was a pretty natural play. It was definitely careless but not clearly intentional. They might've missed it today and then got him with replay.
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Dude was a master at making a dirty play look natural. Same **** Draymond has been accused of. I think replay most certainly would have made his dirty work more difficult.
 
#274
#274
Russillo's take on Rodman today was so original and so on point. He is SOOO BORING. It's all a facade. The hair and the tattoos were masking the fact that he has no personality and no depth. He's just a guy with demons and no substance.

Also, I was extremely disappointed with his explanation of how he studied rebounding. There was nothing there, except that Bird spins the ball and Magic doesn't. He was just making noises and pointing directions. I believe he watched guys shoot and tried to figure out what their tendencies were, but to get any real meaning out of that it seems like it would require data and math. My guess is he was just a damn good natural rebounder who worked his ass off and it had little to do with his film study.
 
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