iluvsmesumdooley
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Joe Montana and Steve Young beg to differ.Before Peyton came into the league, the game had never seen a qb as cerebral as Peyton (and I don’t think ever will again). Or a qb who has played the nfl qb position as cerebrally as Peyton. Not saying he’s the smartest or strongest qb, but the game had never had a qb like him before. He transcended the position. The preparation, the film study, recognizing defensive tendencies, opposing coach and player tendencies, prior to game day. He often had you beat before the other team even took the field.
People keep asking who the GOAT is - Brady or Manning - and I'm like over here thinking Reggie White or LT.
Dude just stop with your incessant nonsense. Football is a team sport. Singling out an individual player is beyond stupid. You keeo doing it and you keep looking dumber and dumber.
You might as well remove all the qbs past Brady and Manning. They played when the nfl was a tackle league, you were allowed to hit the qb and the defense wasn’t completely crippled. You absolutely can’t compare the stats. The older qbs on the list threw the ball down the field a lot more and didn’t throw all of these short high percentage passes. The only reason brady has a lower int ratio is that he has primarily been a dink and dunk thrower. If you want more excel spreadsheets look up all time qb yards in the air vs yards after catch. Brady will be near the very bottom for % yards in air vs total yards. Dink and dunk offensive blocking schemes and possession receivers have benefitted Brady. If qbs of old had the same rules as today Montana would have killed it because he ran a similar offensive system. Manning has a much greater yards in the air. Brady has done well with the rules of today in a watere down sissified league but you can’t compare him against the old guys and he aint the goat. Nobody is
Drawing a conclusion that he was sacked 1/20 attempts; therefore he does not do a lot of dink and dunks is an extreme reach. That's the problem with stats - people twist to fit their narrative and into meaning something they simply don't. All that means is he was sacked once every 20 attempts. Unless you reviewed every pass attempt and plotted how many were beyond 10 yards, you can't reach any conclusion on the sacks per pass attempt. That could mean he's got a great o-line, is excellent at avoiding the rush, generally releases the ball in less than 2 seconds per pass attempt or some combination of factors.But the facts remain. Brady was sacked 1/20 passing attempts....Manning 1/33.... so much for your dink and dunk crap.
You would expect a QB running that kind of offense to be sacked LESS FREQUENTLY, not MORE!
Drawing a conclusion that he was sacked 1/20 attempts; therefore he does not do a lot of dink and dunks is an extreme reach. That's the problem with stats - people twist to fit their narrative and into meaning something they simply don't. All that means is he was sacked once every 20 attempts. Unless you reviewed every pass attempt and plotted how many were beyond 10 yards, you can't reach any conclusion on the sacks per pass attempt. That could mean he's got a great o-line, is excellent at avoiding the rush or generally releases the ball in less than 2 seconds per pass attempt or some combination of factors.
Both he and Peyton are/were excellent at check downs. Does that mean they are a dink and dunker, or are they very good at check-downs on their 3rd or 4th read?
Whew, you are making my head hurt and making me think too much on a FridayA question--Why do you think the TD%; INT%; SACK %; and Passer Rating stats---etc...etc... exist?
Are they not for comparative purposes in an attempt to establish a "LEVEL" playing ground upon which statistical anomalies may be minimized in performance evaluations?
Saban is at least =It's fun to read the arguments for and against Brady as the GOAT. There are so many factors to consider and IMO impossible to ever settle this debate. Do you base the GOAT on stats, records or some combination? Nobody will ever agree. You can't deny Brady's success with 6 SB wins, but you also can't deny the brilliance of Peyton and the numbers he put up. I definitely believe Brady was fortunate to play for one team and coach his entire career. Oh yeah, and he is the best coach in the history of football (college or NFL). Would Brady have been successful for another team, absolutely? Would he have 6 SB victories, I doubt it as the Pats are the best ever at putting together a team as well as game planning and exploiting a team's weaknesses. Do the Pats have 6 SB's without Brady, probably not. Would Peyton have 6 or more SB victories if he played for the Pats, probably so but maybe not. It's impossible to say.
While I'm not a Brady fan, I give him credit for what he's accomplished and he will go down as one of the top players at that position. I also put Peyton at the top as well and I'm fine not declaring them, or anyone else as the GOAT because there is no way to definitively decide that.
I tend to disagree with that. I would rate him close to BB, but let's not forget how bad Saban failed in the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an excellent coach, just not good as Bill. Saban is an excellent recruiter who wins with 4 and 5 stars. Bill wins with a bunch of no names (aside from a few) and absolutely out coaches everyone he faces. Saban got seriously out coached by Dabo this year. Saban is successful largely do to the players he's able to recruit and mold into elite players. He has a system that works - but I don't think from a X's and O's perspective he's on par with Bill. When he had teams int he NFL that did not have the superior talent, he could not win. Plus he's the Bama coach; therefore, I hate him.Saban is at least =
F*** 'em both honeslty (same goes for the teams). Saban was decent at MSU. He also won a NC at LSU and has 5 at Bama (and only 2 losses. So 6-2 compared to 6-3).I tend to disagree with that. I would rate him close to BB, but let's not forget how bad Saban failed in the NFL. Don't get me wrong, I think he's an excellent coach, just not good as Bill. Saban is an excellent recruiter who wins with 4 and 5 stars. Bill wins with a bunch of no names (aside from a few) and absolutely out coaches everyone he faces. Saban got seriously out coached by Dabo this year. Saban is successful largely do to the players he's able to recruit and mold into elite players. He has a system that works - but I don't think from a X's and O's perspective he's on par with Bill. When he had teams int he NFL that did not have the superior talent, he could not win. Plus he's the Bama coach; therefore, I hate him.
Whew, you are making my head hurt and making me think too much on a Friday
Regarding your question, totally agree stats exist for comparison purposes. But my point is you took a stat one step further and tried to interpret an additional meaning from it which is impossible to definitively determine. You can't make any conclusions on sacks per pass attempt and the type of passes being thrown without doing a much deeper analysis on the throws he made. We agree he was sacked more often, but again you can't make a conclusion that he was 55% more likely to have less time. It could mean he and Peyton had roughly the same time, but Peyton was much better at side stepping the rush and avoiding the sack (hypothetically). Which exactly illustrates my point, I could easily argue a completely different angle on the meaning of the stat based on my interpretation. That's why you have to take stats at face value and not try and make interpretations on what they mean. As you said, it is what it is, Brady got sacked more than Peyton. That's a fact and nobody knows why unless they analyze ever single pass attempt each one made.
Perhaps you can’t, but I can, quite easily. He’s one of the greatest ever to play the position, no doubt. But THE GOAT? Nah. I can easily and credibly make a strong case that a tremendous amount of his success is due to playing for the greatest head coach and organization/culture in nfl history. They plug and play with different players and coaches better than any organization ever seen. Lose one underrated WR and they just go get another underrated, unheralded WR who does nothing but run wide open across the middle of the field or in the flats who catches the ball unimpeded for 5-6 yards before anybody gets near him.As much as I love Peyton there really is no debate. You can’t look at Brady’s accomplishments and not say he’s the GOAT.
I have to look at it in the terms of who I would want holding the ball down by 4 points with the Championship on the line.
I love Peyton but Brady is the most clutch QB to ever play the game.
Perhaps you can’t, but I can, quite easily. He’s one of the greatest ever to play the position, no doubt. But THE GOAT? Nah. I can easily and credibly make a strong case that a tremendous amount of his success is due to playing for the greatest head coach and organization/culture in nfl history. They plug and play with different players and coaches better than any organization ever seen. Lose one underrated WR and they just go get another underrated, unheralded WR who does nothing but run wide open across the middle of the field or in the flats who catches the ball unimpeded for 5-6 yards before anybody gets near him.
Imho, as great as he is, he’s a system QB that any one of 5-6 other QBs could’ve had similar success in over the past 20 years. Take him out of that system with that coach in that organization and he’s still be really good, but he wouldn’t have come close to sniffing anywhere near the same type of success......conversely, plug in a handful of other top QBs in his place the last two decades, and Belichick is still going to a going to and winning a ton of superbowls.