Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

[BigOrangeTrain]

I know it's a heated debate and emotions run strong for Vol fans and our favorite son....

But everyone who has EVER played the game or watched Marino play KNOWS that the Dolphins only needed an average defense to get him into the SB...and they just sucked on D. Marino would've KILLED to have some of those COLTS defenses that PM lead to losses in those "one and done" playoff losses....



Really.....just how much did he do in his last SB?

And Marino, Manning, Rodgers and just about every other QB would have killed to have the coach, kicker and defenses Brady has had his whole career. But dont let that stop yoir narrative that a QB is the sole reason for wins and losses on the biggest stage. Lol.

 

[Behr]

I know it's a heated debate and emotions run strong for Vol fans and our favorite son....

But everyone who has EVER played the game or watched Marino play KNOWS that the Dolphins only needed an average defense to get him into the SB...and they just sucked on D. Marino would've KILLED to have some of those COLTS defenses that PM lead to losses in those "one and done" playoff losses....



Really.....just how much did he do in his last SB?

Its not for me, I couldn't care less who you or anyone else thinks is the GOAT. I think some of the arguments on all sides are laughable. Like the one you made that I quoted.

I love me some Peyton Manning and can't stand Brady or the Patriots.

Its hard to ignore what Brady has been a part of.

I don't care who's the GOAT, MY favorite is Peyton.

That's all I got to say bout thaut.

 

[WiseOlVol]

I know it's a heated debate and emotions run strong for Vol fans and our favorite son....

But everyone who has EVER played the game or watched Marino play KNOWS that the Dolphins only needed an average defense to get him into the SB...and they just sucked on D. Marino would've KILLED to have some of those COLTS defenses that PM lead to losses in those "one and done" playoff losses....

Really.....just how much did he do in his last SB?

With no arm left and sacked 5 times, he called a brilliant game in a defensive struggle.
Given his physical limitations all year, only pure genius got Den through SD, Pitt and NE the 3 previous weeks.
GOAT.

 

[MikeVol44]

Its not for me, I couldn't care less who you or anyone else thinks is the GOAT. I think some of the arguments on all sides are laughable. Like the one you made that I quoted.

you're entitled to your opinion....but you're also entitled to be wrong, too.

Marino's playoff stats are NOT stellar.....but Miami was attempting to play catch-up in most of his games.
I don't know if you actually played or watched any football before PM....but Marino was very good.

When PM was trying to play catch-up in the SB agains the Saints....he threw a pick-6. against a 20th ranked scoring defense in the league.

 

[Behr]

you're entitled to your opinion....but you're also entitled to be wrong, too.

Marino's playoff stats are NOT stellar.....but Miami was attempting to play catch-up in most of his games.
I don't know if you actually played or watched any football before PM....but Marino was very good.

When PM was trying to play catch-up in the SB agains the Saints....he threw a pick-6. against a 20th ranked scoring defense in the league.

What am I wrong about?

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

Before Peyton came into the league, the game had never seen a qb as cerebral as Peyton (and I don’t think ever will again). Or a qb who has played the nfl qb position as cerebrally as Peyton. Not saying he’s the smartest or strongest qb, but the game had never had a qb like him before. He transcended the position. The preparation, the film study, recognizing defensive tendencies, opposing coach and player tendencies, prior to game day. He often had you beat before the other team even took the field.

 

[Big Al Orange]

Before Peyton came into the league, the game had never seen a qb as cerebral as Peyton (and I don’t think ever will again). Or a qb who has played the nfl qb position as cerebrally as Peyton. Not saying he’s the smartest or strongest qb, but the game had never had a qb like him before. He transcended the position. The preparation, the film study, recognizing defensive tendencies, opposing coach and player tendencies, prior to game day. He often had you beat before the other team even took the field.

. Congrats Johnny, you finally settled it. PM GOAT !! Nothing more to say here. Lol

 

[rocketskates]

As much as I love Peyton there really is no debate. You can’t look at Brady’s accomplishments and not say he’s the GOAT.

 

[VOL_Lyfe]

Before Peyton came into the league, the game had never seen a qb as cerebral as Peyton (and I don’t think ever will again). Or a qb who has played the nfl qb position as cerebrally as Peyton. Not saying he’s the smartest or strongest qb, but the game had never had a qb like him before. He transcended the position. The preparation, the film study, recognizing defensive tendencies, opposing coach and player tendencies, prior to game day. He often had you beat before the other team even took the field.

And to think that drafting Peyton v. Ryan Leaf was considered a tossup.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

As much as I love Peyton there really is no debate. You can’t look at Brady’s accomplishments and not say he’s the GOAT.

Lol. There is no GOAT of NFL football players. Why? He didnt accomplish what he did by himself.

 

[VolFanatic27]

Any average NFL QB could have done as well as, or better than, Brady in the last SB. He looked like a geriatric being helped across the street by his team. Yeah, Peyton didn’t look his best in his last SB but he didn’t have near the same support that Brady does.
Edit: make that the last season, not just the SB

 

[MikeVol44]

Before Peyton came into the league, the game had never seen a qb as cerebral as Peyton (and I don’t think ever will again). Or a qb who has played the nfl qb position as cerebrally as Peyton. Not saying he’s the smartest or strongest qb, but the game had never had a qb like him before. He transcended the position. The preparation, the film study, recognizing defensive tendencies, opposing coach and player tendencies, prior to game day. He often had you beat before the other team even took the field.

except in the playoffs when it mattered most.

Here's another little tidbit of reality for some of you...

Tim Tebow took the 2011 Denver team to the playoffs--barely....with the 24th ranked scoring defense in the league that year....and actually WON a home playoff game in the post-season against the Steelers--who had the NUMBER 1 RANKED scoring defense that year!!! Tebow didn't throw any ints in that game.

Manning took the 2012 Denver team to the playoffs...but with a better OL and more offensive weapons at his disposal than Tebow had...but with the 4th ranked scoring defense in the league that year...and still managed TO LOSE a home game against the Ravens, who actually had a scoring defense ranked 12th that year....And Manning was only able to lead his team to 21 offensive points at home and threw 2 interceptions--one a pick 6.

And to those of you suffering emotional outbursts right now after reading those facts--I AM NOT even remotely trying to say that Tebow was in any way, shape, fact, or form even 1/2 the QB that PM was. Not ever.

But I am saying that the Denver team Elway was putting together with John Fox already had all of the working parts in place to win and any number of NFL QBs could've led those teams to the playoffs--especially Drew Brees who was a free agent that same year and available, but re-signed with the Saints.

What if Brees had been willing to leave New Orleans and go to Denver?? Any of you have any REASONABLE doubts that he could've QB'd those Denver teams to the SB?

The POINT is that most on here who claim that Brady took over a Pats team that any QB could've led to all those victories MUST recognize that PM had the same thing in Denver.

 

[MikeVol44]

Any average NFL QB could have done as well as, or better than, Brady in the last SB. He looked like a geriatric being helped across the street by his team. Yeah, Peyton didn’t look his best in his last SB but he didn’t have near the same support that Brady does.
Edit: make that the last season, not just the SB

just sheer nonsense.....

Did Brady look geriatric against the Chargers? the Chiefs? And the Pats defense this last year was not even close to being as good as Denver's D was in PM's last season.

In 2015--Manning's last year with the Broncos....Denver had the NO. 4 scoring defense in the league in PM's last season. They were #1 in passing defense...and #3 in rushing defense.
Denver's offense was 16th in total yards per game.....no. 14 in passing yards/game...no. 17 in rushing yards/game...and no. 19th in points scored per game at 22.2 (which includes 5 non-offensive scores).


In 2018--The Patriots had a defense ranked No. 7 this year......#22 against the pass....and #11 against the run.
The Pats' offense was no. 5 in total yards per game...no. 8 in passing yards/game....no. 5 in rushing yards/game....and no. 4 in points scored per game at 27.3 (which includes 4 non-offensive scores).

** all stats presented are pulled from the 16 game REGULAR SEASON games from 2015 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com. and 2018 NFL Standings & Team Stats | Pro-Football-Reference.com

Brady's performances in the 2018 playoffs are FAR and AWAY SUPERIOR to Manning's numbers in his last year with the Broncos.

Now---please explain to me how BRADY is the one looks geriatric when comparing their last SB seasons?

 

[Johnnyreb#VFL]

except in the playoffs when it mattered most.

Here's another little tidbit of reality for some of you...

Tim Tebow took the 2011 Denver team to the playoffs--barely....with the 24th ranked scoring defense in the league that year....and actually WON a home playoff game in the post-season against the Steelers--who had the NUMBER 1 RANKED scoring defense that year!!! Tebow didn't throw any ints in that game.

Manning took the 2012 Denver team to the playoffs...but with a better OL and more offensive weapons at his disposal than Tebow had...but with the 4th ranked scoring defense in the league that year...and still managed TO LOSE a home game against the Ravens, who actually had a scoring defense ranked 12th that year....And Manning was only able to lead his team to 21 offensive points at home and threw 2 interceptions--one a pick 6.

And to those of you suffering emotional outbursts right now after reading those facts--I AM NOT even remotely trying to say that Tebow was in any way, shape, fact, or form even 1/2 the QB that PM was. Not ever.

But I am saying that the Denver team Elway was putting together with John Fox already had all of the working parts in place to win and any number of NFL QBs could've led those teams to the playoffs--especially Drew Brees who was a free agent that same year and available, but re-signed with the Saints.

What if Brees had been willing to leave New Orleans and go to Denver?? Any of you have any REASONABLE doubts that he could've QB'd those Denver teams to the SB?

The POINT is that most on here who claim that Brady took over a Pats team that any QB could've led to all those victories MUST recognize that PM had the same thing in Denver.

Four years in Denver as opposed to 18 years for Brady in NE. ?

And when it mattered most, Manning’s teams went 3-1 and Brady’s teams, when it mattered most.

Can we agree on one thing at least? The Brady/Manning rivalry of the 2000-2010s was so fun to watch (2010s moreso for Manning fans), and I wish we had a few more years of it. But unfortunate, with Manning’s neck fusions, he was lucky to have his four years in Denver.

 

[rocketskates]

Lol. There is no GOAT of NFL football players. Why? He didnt accomplish what he did by himself.

He’s damn sure the greatest qb of all time. He didn’t accomplish it alone BUT look at what he’s accomplished with teams comprised of completely different players. Don’t get me wrong, I like Manning better, but when I take off my orange tinted glasses and get real Brady is the better QB.

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

He’s damn sure the greatest qb of all time. He didn’t accomplish it alone BUT look at what he’s accomplished with teams comprised of completely different players. Don’t get me wrong, I like Manning better, but when I take off my orange tinted glasses and get real Brady is the better QB.

I don’t have orange colored glasses. The fact is there is no metric to measure the greatest QB. So its all opinion with no facts to back it up.

 

[MikeVol44]

anyone know how I can insert a excel file into a post?

 

[MikeVol44]

Here's some data for your perusal.....I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions. I collected it from pro-football-reference.com this morning.
Some very interesting information.... I just collected and compiled it into an excel spreadsheet.

 

[tennbjj]

anyone know how I can insert a excel file into a post?

Excel? Come on man. Take off those Microsoft tinted glasses and just admit Google Docs is the superior product. Find me one reliable source that says Excel is better than Google, I will wait.

Oh right, that's cause you can't! Google has 5 MVPs and 17 All pro selections. Listen, Excel has been a good, solid spreadsheet for years, but its a SYSTEM spreadsheet. I mean Microsoft Office c'mon? Word, Powerpoint, who COULDN'T succeed in that kind of package? Hell, Lotus Notes or Wordperfect could have easily substituted for Excel and done just as well.

Excel doesn't do near as well without the GOAT Bill Gates. Give Gates to Google Docs and they easily win 15-20 product of the year awards

 

[MikeVol44]

Sorry to you Steeler fans.....I forgot Big Ben.....

 

[MikeVol44]

Excel? Come on man. Take off those Microsoft tinted glasses and just admit Google Docs is the superior product. Find me one reliable source that says Excel is better than Google, I will wait.

Oh right, that's cause you can't! Google has 5 MVPs and 17 All pro selections. Listen, Excel has been a good, solid spreadsheet for years, but its a SYSTEM spreadsheet. I mean Microsoft Office c'mon? Word, Powerpoint, who COULDN'T succeed in that kind of package? Hell, Lotus Notes or Wordperfect could have easily substituted for Excel and done just as well.

Excel doesn't do near as well without the GOAT Bill Gates. Give Gates to Google Docs and they easily win 15-20 product of the year awards

What can I say??? ---I'm an old fart who is very familiar with Excel......
Leave us dinosaurs to percolate in our caves.....

Uhh.....me thinks that the comedy in your post just flew right over my old head....LOLOLOLOL

 

[Behr]

Need to do an Excel spreadsheet on all those phone calls Brady had on that phone he .....oh wait, can't.

 

[MikeVol44]

I don’t have orange colored glasses. The fact is there is no metric to measure the greatest QB. So its all opinion with no facts to back it up.

While there may be no single objective metric to determine who is the GOAT....there's plenty of game performance data to EASILY see who has the superior performances in the playoffs and in the Super Bowls.
You can't see that because you just don't WANT TO acknowledge it.

Brady was more likely to throw a TD pass than Manning...and it has taken Brady less passing attempts to throw a TD than Manning--both in the regular season and the Playoffs.
Brady was more likely to get sacked than Manning.
Brady has led his offense to more yards per playoff game than Manning.
Brady's Offense scored more points from TDs per playoff game than Manning's.

Brady was LESS likely to throw an interception than Manning...and threw more TDs per Int than Manning....and it took Brady MORE passing attempts to throw INTS than Manning.
Brady threw LESS pick 6's than MANNING...even though he has played in 13 more playoff games than Manning.
And BRADY has LED his team on more GAME-WINNING drives than PM... 13 times in 30 victories...TRIPLE the per WIN RATE versus. 2 for Manning in 14 victories.. 13/30 is 3 times greater than 2/14....just for those mathematically challenged.

BRADY leads head to head matchups in all games against MANNING. ....11-6
BRADY has 4 SB MVP's to MANNING'S 1.
BRADY has 6 SB victories...to MANNING'S 2.
BRADY'S record in the SB is 6-3...MANNING'S IS 2-2.
BRADY has won 75% of the post-season games that he has played.
In Brady's 18 seasons--he has made the playoffs 16 years...He started at home all 16 years in the playoffs. And he is 14-2 in those games. He went "1 and done" in the playoffs just 2 times.
BRADY has played in 13 AFC championship games...and is 9-4. 5-1 at HOME....and 4-3 ON THE ROAD.

MANNING has 5 regular season MVP to BRADY's 3.
MANNING has a 4-1 AFC championship record. 3-1 against BRADY...ALL 4 of his WINS were played with HOME FIELD advantage.
MANNING has won 52% of his post-season games.
In Manning's 17 seasons, he made the playoffs 15 years. He started 12 of those 15 years at HOME. He went 6-6 at HOME....and 0-3 on the Road in those 15 years--MEANING he went "1 and done" 9 times.
In MOST of those games--Manning's team has had the higher ranked scoring defense.

It's just TOO EASY to see that MANNING has had more than ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY to WIN as many playoff games as Brady has. And, truly, there would've been more AFC championship games matching Brady and Manning against one another if MANNING could've led his teams to first-round playoff wins.

ALL of those stats tell the tale...... and I can't help it if you can't read!

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

View attachment 194295
Here's some data for your perusal.....I will leave you all to draw your own conclusions. I collected it from pro-football-reference.com this morning.
Some very interesting information.... I just collected and compiled it into an excel spreadsheet.

You might as well remove all the qbs past Brady and Manning. They played when the nfl was a tackle league, you were allowed to hit the qb and the defense wasn’t completely crippled. You absolutely can’t compare the stats. The older qbs on the list threw the ball down the field a lot more and didn’t throw all of these short high percentage passes. The only reason brady has a lower int ratio is that he has primarily been a dink and dunk thrower. If you want more excel spreadsheets look up all time qb yards in the air vs yards after catch. Brady will be near the very bottom for % yards in air vs total yards. Dink and dunk offensive blocking schemes and possession receivers have benefitted Brady. If qbs of old had the same rules as today Montana would have killed it because he ran a similar offensive system. Manning has a much greater yards in the air. Brady has done well with the rules of today in a watere down sissified league but you can’t compare him against the old guys and he aint the goat. Nobody is

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

While there may be no single objective metric to determine who is the GOAT....there's plenty of game performance data to EASILY see who has the superior performances in the playoffs and in the Super Bowls.
You can't see that because you just don't WANT TO acknowledge it.

Brady was more likely to throw a TD pass than Manning...and it has taken Brady less passing attempts to throw a TD than Manning--both in the regular season and the Playoffs.
Brady was more likely to get sacked than Manning.
Brady has led his offense to more yards per playoff game than Manning.
Brady's Offense scored more points from TDs per playoff game than Manning's.

Brady was LESS likely to throw an interception than Manning...and threw more TDs per Int than Manning....and it took Brady MORE passing attempts to throw INTS than Manning.
Brady threw LESS pick 6's than MANNING...even though he has played in 13 more playoff games than Manning.
And BRADY has LED his team on more GAME-WINNING drives than PM... 13 times in 30 victories...TRIPLE the per WIN RATE versus. 2 for Manning in 14 victories.. 13/30 is 3 times greater than 2/14....just for those mathematically challenged.

BRADY leads head to head matchups in all games against MANNING. ....11-6
BRADY has 4 SB MVP's to MANNING'S 1.
BRADY has 6 SB victories...to MANNING'S 2.
BRADY'S record in the SB is 6-3...MANNING'S IS 2-2.
BRADY has won 75% of the post-season games that he has played.
In Brady's 18 seasons--he has made the playoffs 16 years...He started at home all 16 years in the playoffs. And he is 14-2 in those games. He went "1 and done" in the playoffs just 2 times.
BRADY has played in 13 AFC championship games...and is 9-4. 5-1 at HOME....and 4-3 ON THE ROAD.

MANNING has 5 regular season MVP to BRADY's 3.
MANNING has a 4-1 AFC championship record. 3-1 against BRADY...ALL 4 of his WINS were played with HOME FIELD advantage.
MANNING has won 52% of his post-season games.
In Manning's 17 seasons, he made the playoffs 15 years. He started 12 of those 15 years at HOME. He went 6-6 at HOME....and 0-3 on the Road in those 15 years--MEANING he went "1 and done" 9 times.
In MOST of those games--Manning's team has had the higher ranked scoring defense.

It's just TOO EASY to see that MANNING has had more than ENOUGH OPPORTUNITY to WIN as many playoff games as Brady has. And, truly, there would've been more AFC championship games matching Brady and Manning against one another if MANNING could've led his teams to first-round playoff wins.

ALL of those stats tell the tale...... and I can't help it if you can't read!

Dude just stop with your incessant nonsense. Football is a team sport. Singling out an individual player is beyond stupid. You keeo doing it and you keep looking dumber and dumber.