Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

KBVol

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You haven't disproved anything....

You drivel on and on about how Brady's advantages of having a better Coach and better defenses make Brady nothing more than a fortuitous QB in the NFL....i.e., being in the right place at the right time. NONSENSE!
You continually spout about how ANY of many HOF QBs could've led the Pats to victories over the last 17 years in your HOMERISH exaltation of Manning beyond his wages.

Manning led his team to an average of 15 points per game in his 13 playoff losses...and 6 of those 13 losses were against teams with Defenses ranked worse in SCORING than his teams.
And PM couldn't even manage to win playoff games at DOME when he did have the #1 and the #2 ranked scoring DEFENSES in the NFL for the COLTS versus the Steelers in 2005, and the Chargers in 2007.

So, even when Dungy provided him with the BEST DEFENSE POSSIBLE, he choked it away and couldn't win.

Simply stated... Brady, Fouts, Marino, Montana, Young, and Rivers could've taken those COLTS teams to MORE victories with the opportunities Manning wasted.

It is MANNING who is a SYSTEM QB.... There is NO DOUBT that PM is the SMARTEST QB to ever play the game. He memorized his receivers' routes....worked with them just about all year long to establish precise routes and timing on those routes...and he threw the ball to a SPOT in man coverages....

But any number of smart defensive coaches cleaned his plough, not just Belichik and the Pats.
After, painfully, reading through this nonsensical screed comprised mainly of absolute BS, it’s obvious that you have no idea what a “system QB” is. So let me help you figure out what this is with a very simple, pointed example....

In 2008, Brady was injured in the first game of the year, on the first offensive drive of the game iirc....he was replaced with Matt Cassell, who has proven to be a scrub backup QB over his 14-15 year NFL career....the Patriots not only won that game that day without Brady, but they won 11 games that year with Cassel.

In 2011, Manning missed the entire season with the Colts.....when he was replaced with Curtis Painter, Kerry Collins and Dan Orlovsky, all similar scrubs (although Collins once took his team to a SuperBowl and was only a couple years removed from winning 12 games with the freaking Titans), the Colts went 2-14.

What’s the moral of this story? It didn’t then, and wouldn’t matter now who the Pats have at QB, they’re gonna win because of Belichick and the culture he has established. Brady has played his role very, very well...he’s an all-time great and a first ballot HOFer. But I can legitimately name several QBs who have played in the nfl in time that Brady has been there who would’ve won multiple SBs in the same situation....some who would’ve won 6 just like “Brady has”....and a few more I believe that are better than him and would’ve won more than 6.

In other words......Tom Brady = System Quarterback.
 
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crparker21

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You've proved by point: PM carried bad Ds almost every year. In 2013, the 28th D got smoked in the SB despite having a QB with the Best season performance in history. Next year, a better Pats D did better, including winning the game after Brady's 2 turnovers late? Next year, when PM was injured, the best D PM ever had shut down both the Pats in the AFC-CG and the Panthers in the SB.

"Asinine"? How do you think PM got the Home Field?

Come on Peyton played like pure sh*t in that Super Bowl. He definitely wasn't the only reason they lost but the Seattle D made him look awful.
 

MikeVol44

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After, painfully, reading through this nonsensical screed comprised mainly of absolute BS, it’s obvious that you have no idea what a “system QB” is. So let me help you figure out what this is with a very simple, pointed example....

In 2008, Brady was injured in the first game of the year, on the first offensive drive of the game iirc....he was replaced with Matt Cassell, who has proven to be a scrub backup QB over his 14-15 year NFL career....the Patriots not only won that game that day without Brady, but they won 11 games that year with Cassel.

In 2011, Manning missed the entire season with the Colts.....when he was replaced with Curtis Painter, Kerry Collins and Dan Orlovsky, all similar scrubs (although Collins once took his team to a SuperBowl and was only a couple years removed from winning 12 games with the freaking Titans), the Colts went 2-14.

What’s the moral of this story? It didn’t then, and wouldn’t matter now who the Pats have at QB, they’re gonna win because of Belichick and the culture he has established. Brady has played his role very, very well...he’s an all-time great and a first ballot HOFer. But I can legitimately name several QBs who have played in the nfl in time that Brady has been there who would’ve won multiple SBs in the same situation....some who would’ve won 6 just like “Brady has”....and a few more I believe that are better than him and would’ve won more than 6.

In other words......Tom Brady = System Quarterback.
Matt Cassel was a much better backup QB than any of those goofs backing PM up. And I've NEVER DENIED the facts about Belichik and the Patriots having better defenses over Brady's career than the Colts had ON AVERAGE with PM. I listed those facts without trying to lessen the impact one little bit. It's all laid out there in the record.

BUT in an attempt to COMPARE apples with apples----just look at the stats when both the Colts and Patriots had defenses BETTER than their opponents. Game--Set--Match to BRADY!

PM choked in the playoffs to the JETS in the WILD CARD game to a tune of 0-41!! THE JETS!
And it would be different if BELICHIK and the Patriots were the ONLY team to stifle Manning. The Ravens, Steelers, JETS, and the SAINTS all wore him out in the playoffs. And don't forget that juggernaut of a defense--the Miami Dolphins--limited him to 17 points in the playoffs, too.

I DEFINED what I mean by system QB.... PM is without doubt the smartest QB who has ever played the game.
And he and Tom Moore developed an offense dependent upon extreme precision in route running and exact timing. Manning's job was to read the defense and get his team into the right play and throw the ball to the right spot on time.

Please, for your own good, look up some of Ray Lewis' interviews about defending Manning and the Colts. It's educational and will help you understand what I'm saying.

And as I've said in prior posts....PM has a legacy of poor performance after poor performance in the PLAYOFFS--even when his team had superior defenses and should NOT have lost games. It's just true. Crap, almost ANYONE could've QB'd that last Denver team to a SB win instead of Manning.

I'm done with you... have had many debates with you over the years...tried to remain civil....but you, LIKE MOST, are just BLINDED by BIG-ORANGE bias.

Marino would've probably had 4 SB victories with some of those COLTS' teams with good defenses that PM led to defeat in one and done playoff appearances!
 
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MikeVol44

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Unique change in strategy. Paint the other as childish and your bullshizz as adult logic. To the homeless loner’s table with you.
It's a lost cause trying to reason with ORANGE HOMERS..... I love the sport of football....and admire great players who can elevate their game when it really means something in the post-season. And unfortunately, PM is just NOT THAT GUY!
 

BigOrangeTrain

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It's a lost cause trying to reason with ORANGE HOMERS..... I love the sport of football....and admire great players who can elevate their game when it really means something in the post-season. And unfortunately, PM is just NOT THAT GUY!
Your lame attemps in this thread are laughable. You seem to fall into the trap so many more have in this thread. Thinking that a game like football can be decided more on the shoulders of one player than the entire team. Tom Brady is an all time great, first ballot HOF QB that is easily one of the best QBs to ever play. That is undeniable. Is he the greatest? Impossible to determine. Its all about opinions. Someone who has the opinion that Peyton is better is no more foolish than you saying Brady is better. Neither is wrong. But keep up your idiot logic.
 

WiseOlVol

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Matt Cassel was a much better backup QB than any of those goofs backing PM up. And I've NEVER DENIED the facts about Belichik and the Patriots having better defenses over Brady's career than the Colts had ON AVERAGE with PM. I listed those facts without trying to lessen the impact one little bit. It's all laid out there in the record.

BUT in an attempt to COMPARE apples with apples----just look at the stats when both the Colts and Patriots had defenses BETTER than their opponents. Game--Set--Match to BRADY!

PM choked in the playoffs to the JETS in the WILD CARD game to a tune of 0-41!! THE JETS!
And it would be different if BELICHIK and the Patriots were the ONLY team to stifle Manning. The Ravens, Steelers, JETS, and the SAINTS all wore him out in the playoffs. And don't forget that juggernaut of a defense--the Miami Dolphins--limited him to 17 points in the playoffs, too.

I DEFINED what I mean by system QB.... PM is without doubt the smartest QB who has ever played the game.
And he and Tom Moore developed an offense dependent upon extreme precision in route running and exact timing. Manning's job was to read the defense and get his team into the right play and throw the ball to the right spot on time.

Please, for your own good, look up some of Ray Lewis' interviews about defending Manning and the Colts. It's educational and will help you understand what I'm saying.

And as I've said in prior posts....PM has a legacy of poor performance after poor performance in the PLAYOFFS--even when his team had superior defenses and should NOT have lost games. It's just true. Crap, almost ANYONE could've QB'd that last Denver team to a SB win instead of Manning.

I'm done with you... have had many debates with you over the years...tried to remain civil....but you, LIKE MOST, are just BLINDED by BIG-ORANGE bias.

Marino would've probably had 4 SB victories with some of those COLTS' teams with good defenses that PM led to defeat in one and done playoff appearances!
Even carrying his career-ending injury, Manning could have mustered enough to score 4 points on the Rams last week.
 
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butchna

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I think the only things you own are a pair of Bradys testicles coated in brass and an autographed picture of Rock Gullickson. Seeings how you love to bring his name up so often.
I bring him up because you have a flawed thinking process. You actually thought Pruitt didn't have the RIGHT to let Rock go because he "didn't have enough time!" And that continues on this thread. I'm not a fan of Brady, much less this gay fetish genitalia fantasy stuff you're projecting from your childhood. I've chosen to believe that his resume places him on the top of this hypothetical list. My only arguments have been directed at posters like you and Wise that drive around in a circle with the same garbage of this means that and that means this. MVP's are popularity contests and fantasy projections of switching them to different circumstances is just that...fantasy! They did what they did with what they had. That's what I graded them on.
 

Behr

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It's a lost cause trying to reason with ORANGE HOMERS..... I love the sport of football....and admire great players who can elevate their game when it really means something in the post-season. And unfortunately, PM is just NOT THAT GUY!
PM isn't, but but but, Marino COULD HAVE BEEN...IF IF IF.....LOL.
 

MikeVol44

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PM isn't, but but but, Marino COULD HAVE BEEN...IF IF IF.....LOL.
I know it's a heated debate and emotions run strong for Vol fans and our favorite son....

But everyone who has EVER played the game or watched Marino play KNOWS that the Dolphins only needed an average defense to get him into the SB...and they just sucked on D. Marino would've KILLED to have some of those COLTS defenses that PM lead to losses in those "one and done" playoff losses....

Even carrying his career-ending injury, Manning could have mustered enough to score 4 points on the Rams last week.
Really.....just how much did he do in his last SB?
 

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