Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#127
#127
L
lifeisdeep said:
Marino had the arm but he didn't have the ability to read defenses or the timing that Brady does. No one has ever approached him in either of those, and they are why he has the titles.
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He’s an absolute genius. How does he find those wide open receivers that he flips a five yard pass to.
 
#128
#128
JohnWardForever said:
NO. The FACTS are Brady played with underinflated balls. Documented and Proven. YOUR Opinion is that didn't have an impact on his play or the teams' performance. THAT'S what we call Opinion. Im dealing in Facts. Son.
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No, you're not. You're trotting out fabrications that have been disproven and calling them facts.

You do realize that the whole controversy was over balls for one half of one game, right? And he played far better the second half with the balls that were at full pressure? But by all means don't let the truth get in the way of your distortions.
 
#129
#129
spyfish007 said:
To me, the argument was over when you compare the year Brady was out vs the year Peyton was out.
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This is about as flimsy as an argument could ever get. The one time the Patriots have missed the playoffs in the last nineteen years was the year Brady was out. And they lost five games the year he was out, with the same team that had gone 18-1 a year earlier.
 
#130
#130
lifeisdeep said:
This post shows how little you care about the truth. The Patriots were only leading by ten at the end of the half, 17-7, when the supposedly-altered balls were collected. The balls they played with for the second half, according to the league and everyone else, had been "properly inflated." And that's when Brady torched the Colts and threw for two of his three TDs for the day while leading his team to 28 points in the second half. So yeah, those under-inflated balls in the first half really made all the difference.
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The deflating balls is not about the colts game. The question is how long had he been defating balls. Likely many more games that just the colts game. The issue is that He lied about it and had probably been benefitting from it for years.
 
#131
#131
PhoenixAZVol said:
L


He’s an absolute genius. How does he find those wide open receivers that he flips a five yard pass to.
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His receivers are "wide open" less than just about any other team in the league. This shows how little you really know about the sport. Romo just commented on this in the Chargers game: how a lot of his completions look simple, when they're very high-level throws that few quarterbacks can make because they have to be perfect.
 
#133
#133
PhoenixAZVol said:
Agree. Peyton never had the strongest arm either. I was talking about Bledsoe. Brady has average arm strength at best. If you look at his stats he has always had a fairly low pct of completions over 20 yards. I also guarantee you that he is in the top 5 all time for ‘yards after catch’. I researched it once. His yards per attempt is always inflated because he gets all those yards after catch.
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Aaron Rodgers has a rocket and functions well in any offense. Favre’s was lethal and he did ok in the west coast. His main drawback (and greatest strength) was that gunslinger mentality. Bledsoe wasn’t inferior to Brady because of his stronger arm...he just was.
 
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#135
#135
I would still take Montana in the Super Bowl over any of them(undefeated and never threw an interception). Brady is the GOAT and it's not close though(it pains me to say that). Peyton was a superstar QB but he isn't even #2 in my book.
 
#136
#136
PhoenixAZVol said:
The deflating balls is not about the colts game. The question is how long had he been defating balls. Likely many more games that just the colts game. The issue is that He lied about it and had probably been benefitting from it for years.
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Now the real truth comes out. What you've done above could, with euphemism, be referred to as wild speculation; a more frank characterization would be that it's simply slander because you have zero proof and are just talking out of your ass.

It really doesn't get any sillier and more childish than to attribute the greatness of the best quarterback in the history of the game to underinflated footballs.

Do you know how many times the NFL has checked air pressure for footballs in any game since that one? None. Because it was all fabricated from the start to appease whining owners of other teams mad because the big bad Patriots keep beating them.
 
#137
#137
Alex10 said:
I understand what your saying, and there is no doubt Brady is a great QB, but in the playoffs a great coach goes a long long way, Brady has always had the best coach in the biz so I think that has greatly helped Brady get all of that post season success, and that success is what everyone uses to point to and say this is why Brady is definitely better than manning.. I watched them both play a ton during their prime... maybe I’ve got the orange tinted glasses on but I’ve always thought manning was the more talented QB, but as I said was not the beneficiary of the better overall organizational situation. Just my opinion.
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Agree. Just my opinion.
 
#141
#141
PhoenixAZVol said:
We had a lot of conversation about this in another thread.

My opinion only. I know most will disagree.

- Brady is overrated based on the system he plays in. Every time I watch him he stands there with all the time in the world, throws a 5 yard pass to a wide open receiver who then runs for another 10-15 yards.
- He has no athletic ability (mobility) whatsoever yet has the luxury to just stand there and throw 'dink and dunk' passes.
- How many QBs wish they had the luxury to play in that kind of environment?
- He has very average arm strength and I hardly ever see him throw a rope more than 20 yards. His longer passes are jump balls to Gronk who is a beast.
-He is glorified and considered by some as the GOAT due to his 'rings'
- The first three SB rings had very little to do with Brady. His defense and kicker carried him and I know of very few QBs who wouldn't have also won those SBs.
- He should have never even gone to the first SB due to the worst call in the history of the NFL - the tuck rule.
- He should have lost the SB against the Seahawks due to the worst play call by a coach in the history of the NFL.
- All of his SBs have been extremely close. He has not dominated in a single SB (ok maybe the Atlanta one) ever. As a comparison, Joe Montana actually lit it up and dominated his SBs - He was one of the main reasons they won.
- The 'Brady Era' could also be called the 'Touch Football Era'. So many rules have changed that the defense is constantly crippled and and it's virtually impossible to cover possession type receivers without getting a flag.
-Likewise, you are not allowed to touch the QB, especially Brady (sorry, but the Chiefs game had yet another 'phantom' roughing the passer call).
-The reason the guy is still playing isn't as much about his quack TB12/avacados, etc. It's because the guy never gets hit. QBs of old absolutely got killed without any regard. Joe M. was 180 lbs soaking wet and he got thrown all over the place.
-Brady has had one coach his whole career and he is probably the best coach in the history of the NFL. Brady rarely calls his own plays and the blocking schemes, routes, etc. have been designed to perfection. I'm confident that my mother could complete a pass in that system.
- The Pats have played in the weakest division over the past 15 years and almost always end up getting home field advantage in the playoffs. We know that a lot of strange things seem to happen in Foxboro.
- Matt Cassell, Garropolos and several other undrafted / backup qbs have stepped right into this system and put up the same numbers with the same results. Hmm.
- I'm not going to get into the cheating but I 100% believe the Pats were filming other teams, wire tapping the other teams sideline, stealing playbooks from other teams locker room, deflating footballs (why did he destroy his phone if he was innocent).
- In reference to Peyton - He benefited from the same 'touch football' rules as Brady. But, he played went to 4 different SBs with 4 different coachs AND he called his own plays and, yes, his Colts defenses were not nearly as good as the Patriots. He is an OC on the field and controlling a lot more strategy than Brady.
- If I was the owner of a brand new expansion team and I could have Manning or Brady as a QB, I'm taking Manning all day long. I want a guy who can run any offense and carry a team, not a guy who only thrives in a system that doesn't require many difficult passes.
- If Brady had been drafted by the same Colts team as Manning, he would not have ANY SB rings and he likely would have ended up being a backup.
- Finally, at this has no impact on ability, I can's stand Brady because he acts like a whiny little 5 year old, and is a first class cry baby. He is very arrogant and full of himself because he thinks he's 'all that' because he looks pretty throwing 5 yard passes. I like pulling for the great ones who are class acts (Montana, Marino, Brees, Manning, etc) and I want them to have success, but I can't for the life of me understand why anyone would actually LIKE Tom Brady.
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Ok?
I love Peyton and don’t like Brady! Now.....
If Danny Wuerffel had Manning’s exact career, you would have zero reason to say Brady isn’t the best ever. Your post is so “homerrific” it’s ridiculous. I respect greatness and Brady is the greatest. I’m sorry..........
 
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#143
#143
lifeisdeep said:
Now the real truth comes out. What you've done above could, with euphemism, be referred to as wild speculation; a more frank characterization would be that it's simply slander because you have zero proof and are just talking out of your ass.

It really doesn't get any sillier and more childish than to attribute the greatness of the best quarterback in the history of the game to underinflated footballs.

Do you know how many times the NFL has checked air pressure for footballs in any game since that one? None. Because it was all fabricated from the start to appease whining owners of other teams mad because the big bad Patriots keep beating them.
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No I am using historical data And a history of shady behavior to suggest that the likelihood of the colt game not being the only game he deflated his balls is very probable.
 
#144
#144
PhoenixAZVol said:
100% disagree. The Patriots and the system carried Brady. How did Mannings GM work out with their stellar defense. For Brady - how about Moss, Gronk, Welker, the current possession guy (steroids guy)- -- his all pro O-line that gives him 10 seconds to throw. Brady has by far had the better team, coach and system surrounding him.
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Your ignorance is astounding. Brady had Moss for one year and part of another before Belichick shipped him off for running his mouth about wanting to be somewhere else. Gronk has never played a full season, and every time they have made it to the Super Bowl since he has been on the team, either he or Edelman has been out with injury. Edelman is 32 and 5'9'. Welker cost them a Super Bowl by letting a pass go right through his hands in the fourth quarter.

As for the OL, this year they're great. Five out of the eight Super Bowls they have played in, the line has been anything but clutch; just as a recent example, last year one of their best players gave up a strip sack when the Pats were driving with just over two minutes to go. The line was atrocious in both games against the Giants.

So you've proven you have zero knowledge either of the scandals that have falsely defamed them, or of the actual teams Brady has played on. But I'm sure if you keep braying loudly enough, a few people will believe you, and you will have successfully perpetuated the slander. Congratulations on your dishonesty.
 
#145
#145
crparker21 said:
I would still take Montana in the Super Bowl over any of them(undefeated and never threw an interception). Brady is the GOAT and it's not close though(it pains me to say that). Peyton was a superstar QB but he isn't even #2 in my book.
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There’s a guy on Fox TV that says,” I’m 4-0 as well”
 
#146
#146
peaygolf said:
Ok?
I love Peyton and don’t like Brady! Now.....
If Danny Wuerffel had Manning’s exact career, you would have zero reason to say Brady isn’t the best ever. Your post is so “homerrific” it’s ridiculous. I respect greatness and Brady is the greatest. I’m sorry..........
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Actually I think wuerfull is a great comparison. He was like Brady at Florida. He had more success., had a better coach and a better team but Peyton was a more talented qb. Joe Montana, Dan Marino and Aaron Rogers didn’t play for ut and I think they are better qbs than Brady too. Montana was kind of a system qb like Brady. But he did so much more.
 
#148
#148
PhoenixAZVol said:
No I am using historical data And a history of shady behavior to suggest that the likelihood of the colt game not being the only game he deflated his balls is very probable.
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Serious question for you: if you were in court, would you say to the judge that something was, "very probable?"

Brady has played for nineteen years and you're relying entirely on the air pressure of footballs for one half of one game to declare him a cheater.

I don't know why I bother arguing at this point because anyone can see you really have on interest in the truth - you just want to hurl baseless accusations over and over again as though crap piled high enough suddenly becomes granite. It doesn't.
 
#150
#150
PhoenixAZVol said:
Is it just me or are the same two or three guys arguing in defense of Brady while the vast majority (everyone else) is not.
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That's funny - I don't see anyone arguing your side at this point other than you, while I do see more and more people telling you you're wrong. How many shots have you had tonight?
 
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