Von Pearson Update

#178
#178
crusse10 said:
If they can't make a case, they can't make a case. There isn't a correlation between not being able to make a case and the veracity of the claim.
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I wouldn't say there "isn't a correlation," but I understand your point. The problem, to me, is in the assumption that, well, shucks, Von probably raped this girl anyway, so kick him off the team (and out of school), etc. There is no basis whatsoever for that assumption. None. Zip. Zero.

In fact, if anything, there is better reason to give him the benefit of the doubt because of how rare it is for a rape accusation to be vindicated by a police investigation.
 
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#180
#180
drylo said:
I wouldn't say there "isn't a correlation," but I understand your point. The problem, to me, is in the assumption that, well, shucks, Von probably raped this girl anyway, so kick him off the team (and out of school), etc. There is no basis whatsoever for that assumption. None. Zip. Zero.
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I support removal from team activities until the truth comes out. It's what makes the program look the best to future parents.

It's not assuming that he did it. It's just detrimental to the team for a player under investigation for rape to be a part of the team, both inside the locker room and to those outside the program. We become the program who is letting a (possible) rapist remain part of the team.
 
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#181
#181
drylo said:
Yes, I am well aware what that table is "suggesting."
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To clarify after you looked at the table you think 90% of rape cases are falsely reported, in that you think that the cases get reported people go to trial, then get put in prison for rape when 90% of the time they actually did not rape someone.

Your source of that information says this; of 100 people that are guilty of rape, THAT MEANS THEY ACTUALLY RAPED SOMEONE, that only 2 of them get reported and then do time for their crime. THE OTHER 98 ARE NOT PUT IN PRISON!!! THEY WERE GUILTY OF RAPE BUT DID NOT GO TO PRISON, THEREFORE THEY WERE NOT FALSELY ACCUSED OF RAPE, THEY WERE FALSELY SET FREE WHEN IN ACTUALITY, THEY RAPED SOMEONE!!!
 
#182
#182
You get called into your supervisor's office this afternoon and s/he tells you that a co-worker has accused you of sexual assault. S/he asks you for your office keys and tells you that you're suspended without pay or company resources while the claim is being investigated. A security guard hands you your personal effects in a box and escorts you out of the office while everybody watches, judgment on their faces. You’re told you can't return to the office until the investigation is complete. It could take many months and you're on your own till then.

Your co-workers are told that you have been suspended indefinitely due to a rape investigation, but your accuser is not identified. The news spreads through your industry, and rumors run rampant because nobody really knows the facts. Your accuser refused a rape kit. There's no hard evidence. You're not charged or arrested. But you were accused. Companies won't hire you. Your own company won't help you. Friends avoid you. Expenses mount.

You're identified as an alleged rapist in the local paper, but your accuser is anonymous. You can't tell your side of the story because your attorney advises you to be quiet. Management thinks you made the company look bad, so your job is probably history-- and forget a reference. Maybe you did something inappropriate; maybe it was rape; maybe your accuser had an agenda. But you're innocent until proven guilty, right? Justice will prevail.

Everybody good with that?
 
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#183
#183
jlindsa4 said:
To clarify after you looked at the table you think 90% of rape cases are falsely reported, in that you think that the cases get reported people go to trial, then get put in prison for rape when 90% of the time they actually did not rape someone.

Your source of that information says this; of 100 people that are guilty of rape, THAT MEANS THEY ACTUALLY RAPED SOMEONE, that only 2 of them get reported and then do time for their crime. THE OTHER 98 ARE NOT PUT IN PRISON!!! THEY WERE GUILTY OF RAPE BUT DID NOT GO TO PRISON, THEREFORE THEY WERE NOT FALSELY ACCUSED OF RAPE, THEY WERE FALSELY SET FREE WHEN IN ACTUALITY, THEY RAPED SOMEONE!!!
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I'm not even sure what your first paragraph is supposed to mean, but I'm pretty sure you're not understanding what I'm saying.
 
#184
#184
LA Vol said:
You get called into your supervisor's office this afternoon and s/he tells you that a co-worker has accused you of sexual assault. S/he asks you for your office keys and tells you that you're suspended without pay or company resources while the claim is being investigated. A security guard hands you your personal effects in a box and escorts you out of the office while everybody watches, judgment on their faces. You’re told you can't return to the office until the investigation is complete. It could take many months and you're on your own till then.

Your co-workers are told that you have been suspended indefinitely due to a rape investigation, but your accuser is not identified. The news spreads through your industry, and rumors run rampant because nobody really knows the facts. Your accuser refused a rape kit. There's no hard evidence. You're not charged or arrested. But you were accused. Companies won't hire you. Your own company won't help you. Friends avoid you. Expenses mount.

You're identified as an alleged rapist in the local paper, but your accuser is anonymous. You can't tell your side of the story because your attorney advises you to be quiet. Management thinks you made the company look bad, so your job is probably history-- and forget a reference. Maybe you did something inappropriate; maybe it was rape; maybe your accuser had an agenda. But you're innocent until proven guilty, right? Justice will prevail.

Everybody good with that?
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I'm good with a student who is being investigated for rape being allowed to continue his schooling while the matter is being sorted out.
 
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#185
#185
LA Vol said:
You get called into your supervisor's office this afternoon and s/he tells you that a co-worker has accused you of sexual assault. S/he asks you for your office keys and tells you that you're suspended without pay or company resources while the claim is being investigated. A security guard hands you your personal effects in a box and escorts you out of the office while everybody watches, judgment on their faces. You’re told you can't return to the office until the investigation is complete. It could take many months and you're on your own till then.

Your co-workers are told that you have been suspended indefinitely due to a rape investigation, but your accuser is not identified. The news spreads through your industry, and rumors run rampant because nobody really knows the facts. Your accuser refused a rape kit. There's no hard evidence. You're not charged or arrested. But you were accused. Companies won't hire you. Your own company won't help you. Friends avoid you. Expenses mount.

You're identified as an alleged rapist in the local paper, but your accuser is anonymous. You can't tell your side of the story because your attorney advises you to be quiet. Management thinks you made the company look bad, so your job is probably history-- and forget a reference. Maybe you did something inappropriate; maybe it was rape; maybe your accuser had an agenda. But you're innocent until proven guilty, right? Justice will prevail.

Everybody good with that?
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I can't stand it. Both should have anonymity butthey don't. One of the things that must change but it never will unless we change government systems.
I've seen it happen and it takes a lot for someone to comeback from it. Most people don't find their way up.
 
#187
#187
drylo said:
I'm not even sure what your first paragraph is supposed to mean, but I'm pretty sure you're not understanding what I'm saying.
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You are hopeless man. I am sorry. I pity you and I hope you don't accidentally piss people off.
 
#188
#188
drylo said:
Do you mind explaining what is faulty about the stats I cited? I mean, they do come from the rape culture crowd, after all. It's just that apparently nobody stops to think about what the stats ACTUALLY SAY--namely, that 97 out of every 100 times we hear about a "rape," the evidence that the crime actually occurred ranges from nil to inconclusive.
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This is what I am referring to. You say that it ranges from nil to inconclusive. You are saying that 97 times out of 100 that rape occurs that it there is no evidence that those crimes occurred. The numbers from those sources that cited that information are from rape cases that have actually occurred.
 
#189
#189
jlindsa4 said:
This is what I am referring to. You say that it ranges from nil to inconclusive. You are saying that 97 times out of 100 that rape occurs that it there is no evidence that those crimes occurred. The numbers from those sources that cited that information are from rape cases that have actually occurred.
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LOL. And you know that those "rapes" occurred... how, exactly?
 
#190
#190
crusse10 said:
I'm good with a student who is being investigated for rape being allowed to continue his schooling while the matter is being sorted out.
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So you'd be good with being removed from your job without pay or company resources while your rape investigation was allowed to play out? Just because you were accused, with or without evidence to support the accusation?
 
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#192
#192
smokey0625 said:
I can't stand it. Both should have anonymity butthey don't. One of the things that must change but it never will unless we change government systems.
I've seen it happen and it takes a lot for someone to comeback from it. Most people don't find their way up.
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I think it's more the immediacy of media/social media. Years ago the name wouldn't have gotten out. The players would have been disciplined internally. But now that anyone can go online and see that someone said that someone was arrested or being talked to, that quickly goes from one random tweet to investigation from members of the media until the truth of at least the existence of the claim becomes made (like a media member confirming that a player named _________ is, indeed, being investigated for rape)
 
#193
#193
LA Vol said:
So you'd be good with being removed from your job without pay or company resources while your rape investigation was allowed to play out? Just because you were accused, with or without evidence to support the accusation?
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(1) He's not employed. (2) He joined a team and stated that he'd abide by certain rules. (3) He is being investigated for possibly breaking one of those rules.

If the coach decides to suspend him from team activities until they can determine if he broke rules, then I support it.
 
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#194
#194
The point is you gathered information from a source that piled a bunch of information together. Though it was not a very good assessment of what is going on, you still assume that when rape is reported, that it is false based on the fact that evidence is not presented. This does not mean that the people that did it have been falsely accused. There is a lot of data that I posted earlier that suggests that rape is only falsely reported ~10-20% of the time. The problem with what you are doing, is you are making a huge assumption based off of the numbers you presented. Your argument is based off the same logic that you were arguing against, that how are they reporting these numbers? When you just did the SAME THING. YOU MADE UP A STATISTIC THAT HAS NO VALUE!
 
#195
#195
jlindsa4 said:
The point is you gathered information from a source that piled a bunch of information together. Though it was not a very good assessment of what is going on, you still assume that when rape is reported, that it is false based on the fact that evidence is not presented. This does not mean that the people that did it have been falsely accused. There is a lot of data that I posted earlier that suggests that rape is only falsely reported ~10-20% of the time. The problem with what you are doing, is you are making a huge assumption based off of the numbers you presented. Your argument is based off the same logic that you were arguing against, that how are they reporting these numbers? When you just did the SAME THING. YOU MADE UP A STATISTIC THAT HAS NO VALUE!
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False accusation of rape - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Here is my source, which you chose to ignore, that shows the actual statistics from many case files that show the prevalence of falsely reporting rape.
 
#196
#196
jlindsa4 said:
Did you read the sources?
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Yes. Did you?

I get the sense it's not really your fault, but this conversation with you is making me even more upset with the rape culture propaganda out there. This is why propaganda is dangerous, people.
 
#197
#197
Drylo, I'm confused. Are you saying that because 97/100 claims are not brought to trial that 97/100 claims are false claims?
 
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#198
#198
drylo said:
Yes. Did you?

I get the sense it's not really your fault, but this conversation with you is making me even more upset with the rape culture propaganda out there. This is why propaganda is dangerous, people.
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You are ignoring that actual numbers. that is why i am upset with you. You have one thing in your mind, when in actuality it is completely wrong. Now you are telling everyone that they should think this too.
 
#199
#199
crusse10 said:
(1) He's not employed. (2) He joined a team and stated that he'd abide by certain rules. (3) He is being investigated for possibly breaking one of those rules.

If the coach decides to suspend him from team activities until they can determine if he broke rules, then I support it.
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Doublespeak. Football is a player's job. A player agrees to play by the rules. A player is now being investigated for allegedly breaking one of those rules.

The same premise applies to you or any of us. If you were suspended indefinitely by your superior for breaking the rules, would you consider the treatment and all repercussions thereof fair and just?

You can't have it both ways. The system works for all or it doesn't work for any.
 
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