Vandy Loss = Pruitt Sucks

chargervol

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Ahhhhhh, the mental gymnastics some will go to explain why coaches were outcoached and why players quit.

If I recall correctly (and there was alcohol involved), Vandy had 3 long drives in the 2nd half where they pounded us into submission and only 1 drive like you mentioned (that drive was the backbreaker since it was only 17-6 at that time).

I was a dozen rows up there at the Peabody HS stadium and at the end of the 3rd quarter, I saw a team that had quit and mailed it in...
1st, you can drop the snide azz remarks, it does nothing to me except suggest a level of immaturity.

2nd, never suggested anything about the team not quitting, has nothing to do with my point.

3rd, something wrong with that account of the scoring. Vandy racked up 3 TDs in the second half. 1 run heavy and 2 TDs were pass heavy. Easily checked, as I said.

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Pride85

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That was 40 years ago. I hardly see the relevance today. Will you be going back to the General’s first years next?
No, basically the same argument could have been made to fire Johnny Majors after his first couple of years trying to correct the dumpster fire he was left by Bill Battle. It was still UT back then and we should have been able to beat scrub teams, right?
 

Titan&Volfan4life

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Less we forget...

Vols players drafted...NONE, zero, ziltch, nada, heartbreaking detail unfortunately.

The commode doors DID have players drafted and more signed as UDFA's.

FACT is that the player roster of the commode doors WAS better than our Vols and the PROOF is that all the NFL experts just said so in Draftville, Tennessee.

We are getting better with each recruiting class but we're still 3 recruiting classes away from having serious SEC type players and having some quality depth.

I hope I live long enough to see my beloved Vols back on Top where we belong.

VFL...GBO!!!
 

BigOrangeMojo

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1st, you can drop the snide azz remarks, it does nothing to me except suggest a level of immaturity.

2nd, never suggested anything about the team not quitting, has nothing to do with my point.

3rd, something wrong with that account of the scoring. Vandy racked up 3 TDs in the second half. 1 run heavy and 2 TDs were pass heavy. Easily checked, as I said.

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1st, my goal wasn't to make snide azz comments or show disrespect to you. We may agree to disagree but I'm not intending on being disrespectful (at least to you - other posters, maybe). I have seen other posters use all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify the Butch and Dooley tenures. All I saw was a staff that did not look overly prepared (especially offensively) and a team that did not want to be there. Vandy outplayed us, outcoached us, and they wanted it more; therefore, they whipped out azz. With bowl eligibility and 15 additional practices on the line, I doubt CJP was thinking down only 11"We've lost this game, I might as well put in next year's aggressive defense in the 4th quarter of the last game score be damned". Honestly, CJP saw the same thing that most of us saw - he saw a team that had checked out and he did try to heavy blitz to make a play and Vandy burned us to go up 24-6. CJP made the right call to blitz on that drive but Vandy countered it perfectly.

2nd, Vandy did actually have 3 long drives in the 2nd half - One of them resulted in a missed FG. Even on their "pass happy" drive to go up 31-6, most of those were short passes and not huge chunks.
 

chargervol

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1st, my goal wasn't to make snide azz comments or show disrespect to you. We may agree to disagree but I'm not intending on being disrespectful (at least to you - other posters, maybe). I have seen other posters use all kinds of mental gymnastics to justify the Butch and Dooley tenures. All I saw was a staff that did not look overly prepared (especially offensively) and a team that did not want to be there. Vandy outplayed us, outcoached us, and they wanted it more; therefore, they whipped out azz. With bowl eligibility and 15 additional practices on the line, I doubt CJP was thinking down only 11"We've lost this game, I might as well put in next year's aggressive defense in the 4th quarter of the last game score be damned". Honestly, CJP saw the same thing that most of us saw - he saw a team that had checked out and he did try to heavy blitz to make a play and Vandy burned us to go up 24-6. CJP made the right call to blitz on that drive but Vandy countered it perfectly.

2nd, Vandy did actually have 3 long drives in the 2nd half - One of them resulted in a missed FG. Even on their "pass happy" drive to go up 31-6, most of those were short passes and not huge chunks.
We agree the team quit and that's ultimately on the coach. If you and I could see that, I'm sure so did he. Hence, the game was lost.

3 long drives (1 missed fg) but the the other passing td doesn't get excluded just because they had better field position. Nor does the length of passes.

The bottom line is they were throwing. Short or long, we were playing the pass rush aggressively and that's Pruitt's end goal.
We need better (developed) talent but passing up a chance for implementation because of a "bad optics" on the final score, would be counterproductive long term.

He did plenty wrong, MAINLY losing the team. I don't guarantee or pump a coach's success, I just say with honesty when I see the idea behind 1 strategy. Doesn't mean he won't fail miserably, that's not my m.o.
 

Behr

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We agree the team quit and that's ultimately on the coach. If you and I could see that, I'm sure so did he. Hence, the game was lost.

3 long drives (1 missed fg) but the the other passing td doesn't get excluded just because they had better field position. Nor does the length of passes.

The bottom line is they were throwing. Short or long, we were playing the pass rush aggressively and that's Pruitt's end goal.
We need better (developed) talent but passing up a chance for implementation because of a "bad optics" on the final score, would be counterproductive long term.

He did plenty wrong, MAINLY losing the team. I don't guarantee or pump a coach's success, I just say with honesty when I see the idea behind 1 strategy. Doesn't mean he won't fail miserably, that's not my m.o.
Not easy to have a discussion when you have to constantly think about how to say what you want to say without everyone thinking you have an agenda.

See it all the time. Sometimes I think it's just a defense mechanism, kinda like where you were going earlier, but I think for different reasons.

Anyway....It'll be hard on Pruitt if he loses to Vandy this year, no matter the circumstances. Not sure what the very minimum would be to win back a bunch of us. Yeah, I said us.

That said, I honestly don't think we have to worry about it.
 

chargervol

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Not easy to have a discussion when you have to constantly think about how to say what you want to say without everyone thinking you have an agenda.

See it all the time. Sometimes I think it's just a defense mechanism, kinda like where you were going earlier, but I think for different reasons.

Anyway....It'll be hard on Pruitt if he loses to Vandy this year, no matter the circumstances. Not sure what the very minimum would be to win back a bunch of us. Yeah, I said us.

That said, I honestly don't think we have to worry about it.
I'm ready for the first few games, I just want an idea of where we stand.
Is our young talent (Pruitt guys) far enough along.
Can we identify good or poor game management.
Development of upperclassman?

The ooc games won't predict wins for the meat of our schedule but should give clues about the above and our direction.
I want to know! lol
 

Volfan76

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I keep hearing this over and over. "Pruitt isn't the answer. He lost to Vandy. No coach worth the job gets beat by Vandy!"

In general I agree - Losses to Vandy aren't acceptable. But you cannot judge coaches based on year one results.
  1. Year One Kirby Smart at UGA (with loaded roster) - lost to Vandy also.
  2. The classic example (year one Saban at Bama lost to La. Monroe).
You can't judge CJP good or bad based on his year one results.

Year 2 is a different story. Let's see what happens. If he has a chance to be good we should see some improvement this season. But when judging year two you have to take the starting point (4-8 in 2017). I think 7-5 in 2019 will be a good step - with 8-4 being a very positive sign.

But please no more references to "he lost to vandy so he sucks".
I agree that he has a monumental task here and that year 1 should not be the marker for his coaching abilities. One thing that concerns me, however, is that he knew this and yet he chose to stay at Bama for the NC instead of getting here and getting to work on this program.
 

Behr

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I'm ready for the first few games, I just want an idea of where we stand.
Is our young talent (Pruitt guys) far enough along.
Can we identify good or poor game management.
Development of upperclassman?

The ooc games won't predict wins for the meat of our schedule but should give clues about the above and our direction.
I want to know! lol
Haha, same here. It ain't fair I know, but Ill pretty much have my opinion of Pruitt after Florida.
 

Jack Burton

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Between year One and year Two is the biggest improvement for any coach, UT will play much better. Saban Meyer Richt Smart etc all won the SEC year two and at least 12 wins, Richt/Smart had 13 each. Will UT win 12 and the East? No, but the biggest jump will be this year and 8 wins should be the floor with this schedule, it’s as easy as it will be. 4 cupcakes and going .500 in the league should be doable and expected.
It’s an easier schedule than the past, but there’s no way 8 is the floor after a 4 win season then a 5 win season. Our roster is garbage even with a class of talented freshmen. Did you see the spring game? We’re still slow and undersized.
 

BeardedVol

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The run game will not improve until we have an average olineman weight north of 300 lbs; 279 lb offensive linemen cannot open holes against SEC dlines. That means starting true freshmen if we want bodies big enough to actually do the job correctly, which comes with its own set of challenges and problems. It will be interesting to see which route Chaney/Friend decide go to when it comes to oline personnel.
 

Tin Man

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Just when I'm about to forget about that North Texas debacle (I was there), it comes back like bad guacamole (mean green). Oh well, it happens.:rolleyes:
I was there as well. Hayden Fry brought his stitched together team (missing 16 1st & 2nd string players, including their kicker) to Neyland. that game featured the infamous North Texas handoff - Inside the Vols 20 yard line, QB Roach fakes to his right, turns to his left and essentially hands the ball to NT DE Burkholder coming in unblocked. Though they kept Burkholder from scoring, North Texas punched it in to tie the game at 7-7. On the ensuing kick-off, Burkholder hit Moore, causing him to fumble deep in Vols territory. Once again, North Texas scores to go up 14-7. Then, when the Vols finally score again in the 4th quarter, Battle calls for 1. As the fans express their dipleasure, the PAT is good and the game is tied. On the ensuing kick-off, the NT return man blows through the Vols untouched, jukes Billy Arbo, and scores on the 98-yard return. Down 21-14, the Vols march down the field in the manner fans had been expecting all game long. With a short field, no time-outs, seconds on the clock, and two wide open receivers in the end zone, the Vols QB throws the ball out of bounds to stop the clock after time had expired. There is no more embarrassing loss in my memory, not even Georgia's 41-0 victory at Neyland in 2018.
 
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chargervol

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The run game will not improve until we have an average olineman weight north of 300 lbs; 279 lb offensive linemen cannot open holes against SEC dlines. That means starting true freshmen if we want bodies big enough to actually do the job correctly, which comes with its own set of challenges and problems. It will be interesting to see which route Chaney/Friend decide go to when it comes to oline personnel.
I had basically shut the door on Trey Smith ever playing again but admit, the news of him being off of bloodthinners has at least opened it a smidge.
By no means counting on it but prefer a slim chance over none.
 

djohnnyg

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Butch had things going for a minute. The year prior to the 4-8 we had back to back wins vs. Florida and Georgia and were ranked 9th in the country. Then...ended up winning a bowl game. Point is we DID have talent that year. The cupboard wasn't bare when Pruitt took over. Not completely. The last 2 games of last year are very concerning to me and I don't think it was becuz of bring out talented by a lot. Here's hoping for better things this year.
 

BigOrangeMojo

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Not easy to have a discussion when you have to constantly think about how to say what you want to say without everyone thinking you have an agenda.

See it all the time. Sometimes I think it's just a defense mechanism, kinda like where you were going earlier, but I think for different reasons.
Behr,

First, there are people on here who have an agenda and both me and you know that. There are people who would fault CJP for rescuing kittens from a burning house and we have posters on here who would support OJ Simpson if he become our next coach (I guess unlike Butch Jones, he would go for the jugular).

I'll own that I may have jumped to conclusions too quick about @chargervol post but I viewed it as an excuse for the way we got blown out. I've seen plenty of those posts over the years with posters building in excuses for the incompetence of our prior two coaches. I see the point that @chargervol was making and while I do not 100% agree with it, it is based upon some logical thought process.

Contrary to what you might think, I think CJP very well may surprise us all this year. I think he has done an admirable job recruiting and identifying prospects, he upgraded the staff and some of the on the job training won't be present this year like it was very early last year. Unlike Butch and Dooley, you did not see coaching malpractice during the games and during the second half of the season, the team looked (by in large) better prepared at the beginning and end of halves. The one thing that is I'm extremely alarmed at how the season ended and the way the players essentially quit. That is a flashing caution signal in my mind. I'm hoping that its due to the lack of continuity in S&C or just from weeding out some CBJ troublemakers but I'm skeptical until I see further tangible proof.....
 

TNnative

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The time he spent making his talking points to the media he could have actually been trying to coach.
Same for Dooley too. I'm just glad we are no longer the Tennessee Individuals. I wish somebody would compile the number of time that words was said by Jones in his PCs and register it with Guinness.
 
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BigOrangeTrain

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The run game will not improve until we have an average olineman weight north of 300 lbs; 279 lb offensive linemen cannot open holes against SEC dlines. That means starting true freshmen if we want bodies big enough to actually do the job correctly, which comes with its own set of challenges and problems. It will be interesting to see which route Chaney/Friend decide go to when it comes to oline personnel.
Surely the OL has to be bigger and stronger than last year. I think Jamir Johnson was really undersized last year. Hopefully he has put on some good weight.
 

secking

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It’s an easier schedule than the past, but there’s no way 8 is the floor after a 4 win season then a 5 win season. Our roster is garbage even with a class of talented freshmen. Did you see the spring game? We’re still slow and undersized.
I think a lot of that still has to do with OL play. Think both 5 star tackles will play, and start towards the end of the season.
 

KBVol

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I think a lot of people forgot, the we were only predicted to win 3-4 games last season by most analysts. We won 5, beat 2 top 25 teams, one on the road, broke our SECwest victory drought of like 8 years. If we could have only held on against SCAR, we'd be bowling!
Devil’s advocate...

-Literally nobody picked Tennessee to win 3-4 games last year. A quick google search shows that South Point Casino in Vegas put Tennessee’s win total at 5.5, College Football News predicted 6 wins for Tennessee, RockyTopTalk’s predictions from all 5 authors/contributors picked Tennessee to go over 5.5 wins, AtoZSports predicted 6 wins and 247 Sports predicted “at least 6 wins and a Liberty Bowl Appearance vs Baylor”

-Tennessee set a school record by losing 6 games by 25+ points (by comparison, our 4-8 team under Jones in 2017 only lost 3 games by that margin

-Didn’t hang on vs SCar, blew a 21-9 second-half lead and did not play in a bowl.
 

KBVol

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The run game will not improve until we have an average olineman weight north of 300 lbs; 279 lb offensive linemen cannot open holes against SEC dlines. That means starting true freshmen if we want bodies big enough to actually do the job correctly, which comes with its own set of challenges and problems. It will be interesting to see which route Chaney/Friend decide go to when it comes to oline personnel.
279lbs?

According to UTSports.com’s 2018 player roster https://utsports.com/roster.aspx?roster=2234&path=football......
Richmond 316
Kennedy 301
locklear 293
Niehaus 287
J. Johnson 285
Tatum 293
R. Johnson 302
T. Smith 320
Calbert 327
Carvin 303
Hall 328
Brooks 292

Avg OL Weight 2018....304lbs.
 

tennrich1

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I honestly haven't heard anyone (once settled down after a loss) saying "CJP lost to Vandy so he sux and isn't the answer". Tons say "the jury's still out" partially due to get blown.oit by Vandy.

Is this a straw man thread to begin with?
Really? I think I read that sentiment several times here but maybe I was taking things a bit to literal. Yeah you're right on things "settled" down after a loss thing. I am going to TRY to not go to this site for at least two days next year after a loss because I just can't handle the "woe is me somebody do something for me my team lost and I take it so personal I just cant continue without ripping anybody in my way crowd and blaming everyone and everything for this loss" crowd. (the last sentence is inappropriately too long on purpose). There's nothing I can think of that displays immaturity more than that sniffling, whining, snowflake junk more. Just my opinion of course.
 

EZE

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I was there as well. Hayden Fry brought his stitched together team (missing 16 1st & 2nd string players, including their kicker) to Neyland. that game featured the infamous North Texas handoff - Inside the Vols 20 yard line, QB Roach fakes to his right, turns to his left and essentially hands the ball to NT DE Burkholder coming in unblocked. Though they kept Burkholder from scoring, North Texas punched it in to tie the game at 7-7. On the ensuing kick-off, Burkholder hit Moore, causing him to fumble deep in Vols territory. Once again, North Texas scores to go up 14-7. Then, when the Vols finally score again in the 4th quarter, Battle calls for 1. As the fans express their dipleasure, the PAT is good and the game is tied. On the ensuing kick-off, the NT return man blows through the Vols untouched, jukes Billy Arbo, and scores on the 98-yard return. Down 12-14, the Vols march down the field in the manner fans had been expecting all game long. With a short field, no time-outs, seconds on the clock, and two wide open receivers in the end zone, the Vols QB throws the ball out of bounds to stop the clock after time had expired. There is no more embarrassing loss in my memory, not even Georgia's 41-0 victory at Neyland in 2018.
You might want to check out that edit function.

The score went from tied to down 12-14 in two sentences.
 

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