To Protect and to Serve II

#103
#103
Most victimless crimes already have precedent to be made legal. Alcohol is legal and even if you're a self destructive alcoholic, you are still free to buy it. Gambling is illegal in most places, but internet cafes and daily fantasy are really no different and those businesses are thriving. Point being, the arguments for victimless crimes to remain crimes are wanting when parallel vices are already legal and the fabric of society has yet to be destroyed.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#105
#105
MercyPercy said:
Most victimless crimes already have precedent to be made legal. Alcohol is legal and even if you're a self destructive alcoholic, you are still free to buy it. Gambling is illegal in most places, but internet cafes and daily fantasy are really no different and those businesses are thriving. Point being, the arguments for victimless crimes to remain crimes are wanting when parallel vices are already legal and the fabric of society has yet to be destroyed.
Click to expand...

Reefer gets treated just like alcohol in the 3 states where it is legal. You cant smoke walking around, you can be smoking in your car, etc. That is how it should be treated.

Most victimless crimes that will be tough to get rid off are the ones that produce tax revenue.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#106
#106
FLVOL_79 said:
What?
Click to expand...

The only money they have is the money they steal through taxation. We can talk about fiat currency and the out of control printing press that's driving down the value of the dollar if you'd like.

However, it's only the private sector who creates any wealth or contributes to the economy. Government produces nothing. They can be likened to a leech so to speak.
 
#107
#107
FLVOL_79 said:
Reefer gets treated just like alcohol in the 3 states where it is legal. You cant smoke walking around, you can be smoking in your car, etc. That is how it should be treated.

Most victimless crimes that will be tough to get rid off are the ones that produce tax revenue.
Click to expand...

There is the problem. It's complete insanity to legislate what someone can do with their own bodies. I don't partake myself, but I see no problem with it. Nor any drug for that matter. Sure they're dangerous to the health of the user, but it's their life.
Just as many dangers can be found in the prescription medication field, but somehow they're legal if prescribed. It's insanity. Nanny state run amuck. Also as you say, it's good for revenue, and that's all it is.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#108
#108
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
*No, I'm not condoning what happened in Ferguson by either party.
Click to expand...

I agree with this sentiment. I think that the Micheal Brown case was the weakest of all of these cases of police violence. However, what did come up after the Feds began to look into Ferguson was a positive outcome. The police were using petty crimes and minor violations of the law to milk that community dry.

Ferguson shows how a police force can turn into a plundering ‘collection agency’

Here’s Ferguson Police Chief Thomas Jackson writing to the city manager: “Municipal Court gross revenue for calendar year 2012 passed the $2,000,000 mark for the first time in history, reaching $2,066,050 (not including red light photo enforcement.)” The city manager was thrilled. “Awesome!” he wrote. “Thanks!”
Click to expand...

The staff also patted themselves on the back for charging more for petty offenses than other municipalities. “Our investigation found instances in which the court charged $302 for a single Manner of Walking violation; $427 for a single Peace Disturbance violation; $531 for high Grass and Weeds; $777 for Resisting Arrest; and $792 for Failure to Obey, and $527 for Failure to Comply, which officers appear to use interchangeably,” the Justice Department found.

And when people couldn’t pay, they were arrested. Around 21,000 people live in Ferguson. But in 2013, the city’s municipal court issued a staggering 32,975 arrest warrants for minor offenses, according to Missouri state records. “Folks have the impression that this form of low-level harassment isn’t about public safety,” Thomas Harvey of ArchCity Defenders, which explored the practices in a report last summer, told NPR. “It’s about money.”
Click to expand...
 
#109
#109
And of course, the story from a few weeks ago...

Police Civil Asset Forfeitures Exceed All Burglaries in 2014

Between 1989 and 2010, U.S. attorneys seized an estimated $12.6 billion in asset forfeiture cases. The growth rate during that time averaged +19.4% annually. In 2010 alone, the value of assets seized grew by +52.8% from 2009 and was six times greater than the total for 1989. Then by 2014, that number had ballooned to roughly $4.5 billion for the year, making this 35% of the entire number of assets collected from 1989 to 2010 in a single year. According to the FBI, the total amount of goods stolen by criminals in 2014 burglary offenses suffered an estimated $3.9 billion in property losses. This means that the police are now taking more assets than the criminals.
Click to expand...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#110
#110
hog88 said:
No they are not malcontents. They need to get off their ass and get politically active, work to take their government back and reclaim their power, then change the laws.
Click to expand...

That is an interesting comment because when those 30 Mizzou football players did exactly what you colorfully described right here, you said:

hog88 said:
Inmates have officially took over the asylum.
Click to expand...

I guess as long as people continue to bang their heads and work within the system, you have no issue. But as soon as they get frustrated with the system and "take their government back and reclaim their power", you have a problem.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#111
#111
Grand Vol said:
Agree with #3 wholeheartedly.

#4. Who would you get to staff these panels? And furthermore, "results in harm" is pretty vague. Technically, handcuffing is a use of force. And I've seen people rub their wrists raw to try to say "they handcuffed me too tight!" A more specific definition of "harm" would be needed, though I agree in principle.

#5. I can agree to that, but change the wording to "if it's determined by the independent review board excessive force was used..." Accusations are one thing. Actual determination is another.
Click to expand...
Any comments on #1 & #2?
 
#112
#112
Grand Vol said:
Define "victimless crimes" for me please.

Again, vague.
Click to expand...

Selling loose cigarettes
A rolling stop
Dark tinted windows
Smoking reefer
Open container
Busted taillight
A lemonade stand
Feeding the homeless
Flipping off a cop
Popping a wheelie on a bike
Not giving your name to a cop
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#113
#113
Grand Vol said:
Yes, the term is vague. And whether or not you agree, there needs to be clear cut guidance on the matter. I mean, technically, bank fraud is a victimless crime since the people's money is insured, so should they go free?
Click to expand...

No where near victimless. The taxpayers cover the insurance. If anything, financial/bankster crimes are the most egregious, yet the least enforced laws.

I could only dream of the day that a cop would aggressively go after Jamie Dimon or Lloyd Blankfein as aggressively as these cops go after speeders and drug kingpins.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#114
#114
volbeast33 said:
Bc in a profession like police where force is a common occurrence there has to be a gray area or the police will not be able to do their jobs.... Ok accusations by individuals accused of a crime.
Click to expand...

So basically, that "innocent until proven guilty" phrase is out the window in your mind...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#116
#116
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Eventually this country will have to come to a point that a complete overhaul of the criminal code will happen. That will be a dangerous time as the government will be losing a large chunk of revenue. They will have to make up for it somehow. Ahem taxation...
Click to expand...

Hell, we can't afford to house and feed the people we have jailed right now...
 
#119
#119
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
The only money they have is the money they steal through taxation. We can talk about fiat currency and the out of control printing press that's driving down the value of the dollar if you'd like.

However, it's only the private sector who creates any wealth or contributes to the economy. Government produces nothing. They can be likened to a leech so to speak.
Click to expand...

So if the government doesnt make the money where do private companies get said money and/or wealth? Without a government printing money with an assigned value everyone would be on a barter trade system.
 
#120
#120
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
There is the problem. It's complete insanity to legislate what someone can do with their own bodies. I don't partake myself, but I see no problem with it. Nor any drug for that matter. Sure they're dangerous to the health of the user, but it's their life.
Just as many dangers can be found in the prescription medication field, but somehow they're legal if prescribed. It's insanity. Nanny state run amuck. Also as you say, it's good for revenue, and that's all it is.
Click to expand...

I dont care what other people do to themselves. The problem though lies with what these mind altering substances cause people to do to others. Drunk driving is a big example. So when they legalize weed and enforce it like alcohol I have no problem with that. in a perfect world we would not need rules like this but like my parents said, most people are stupid.
 
#122
#122
FLVOL_79 said:
So if the government doesnt make the money where do private companies get said money and/or wealth? Without a government printing money with an assigned value everyone would be on a barter trade system.
Click to expand...
While you're correct about the barter system, it's much more complicated. Even more so today with the rise of digital money like Bitcoin.

It was Carl Menger who demonstrated how money could emerge on the free market, and Ludwig von Mises who demonstrated that it had to emerge that way. In this as in so many other areas, Mises broke with the reigning orthodoxy, which in this case held that money was a creation of the state and held its value because of the state's seal of approval. A corollary of the Austrian view was that fiat paper money could not simply be created ex nihilo by the state and imposed on the public. The fiat paper we use today would have to come about in some other way.
Click to expand...

It was one of Rothbard's great contributions to show, in his classic What Has Government Done to Our Money? and elsewhere, the precise steps by which the fiat money in use throughout the world came into existence. First, a commodity money (for convenience, let's suppose gold) comes into existence on the market, without central direction, simply because people recognize that the use of a highly valued good as a medium of exchange, as opposed to persisting in barter, will make it easier for them to facilitate their transactions. Second, money substitutes began to be issued, and circulate instead of the gold itself. This satisfies the desires of many people for convenience. They would rather carry paper, redeemable into gold, than the gold itself. Finally, government calls in the gold that backs the paper, keeps the gold, and leaves the people with paper money redeemable into nothing. These steps, in turn, were preceded by the seemingly minor — but in retrospect portentous indeed — government interventions of monopolizing the mint, establishing national names for the money in a particular country (dollars, francs, etc.), and imposing legal tender laws.
Click to expand...
 
#123
#123
FLVOL_79 said:
I dont care what other people do to themselves. The problem though lies with what these mind altering substances cause people to do to others. Drunk driving is a big example. So when they legalize weed and enforce it like alcohol I have no problem with that. in a perfect world we would not need rules like this but like my parents said, most people are stupid.
Click to expand...

I don't have a problem with drinking and driving, my problem is with drinking and crashing.
 
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.

VN Store



Back
Top