To Protect and to Serve II

#27
#27
Rasputin_Vol said:
This is the broad brush that they paint with on the opposite side of the spectrum.
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How many "stops" a day occur with no incidence?

You guys try to portray that cops are nothing more than cold blooded killers. Yes, there are some bad ones. But they make up a very small percentage and will get weeded out.

It's the same thing as our 2nd amendment. Let's take away our rights because of a few wackos.
 
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#28
#28
Rasputin_Vol said:
And for not obeying a command, the proper response is to empty your magazine as the assailant is walking away from (or parallel to) you?

We could probably learn something from Colombian cops... Amazing thing is that the cop dropped his night stick as he charged the guy. Nobody died.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eYsXbJPWCNo[/youtube]
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Nobody ever has to die if they listen to the commands.. Our society is built on law and order and the police had been given the authority to use deadly force... The people who refuse to listen to orders are then making a risky choice.. Let's face it.. Some people do t like the police ans refuse to listen to any commands... They police deal with this lack of respect on a daily basis.. The same people call when 911 when their cable goes out...
 
#29
#29
Obsessed said:
How many "stops" a day occur with no incidence?

You guys try to portray that cops are nothing more than cold blooded killers. Yes, there are some bad ones. But they make up a very small percentage and will get weeded out.

It's the same thing as our 2nd amendment. Let's take away our rights because of a few wackos.
Click to expand...

I don't think that cops, by and large, are bad people. I think the training they receive has them at odds with the people. Cops should look for non-violent means of conflict resolution and should get to know the people in their patrol area. I know most areas won't allow cops to walk a beat, simply not enough money to have that many cops and only the most urban areas are conducive to that type of patrol. However, getting out of the patrol several times a day just to talk with the people in their area would be time well spent.
 
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#30
#30
Biopsyman said:
Nobody ever has to die if they listen to the commands.. Our society is built on law and order and the police had been given the authority to use deadly force... The people who refuse to listen to orders are then making a risky choice.. Let's face it.. Some people do t like the police ans refuse to listen to any commands... They police deal with this lack of respect on a daily basis.. The same people call when 911 when their cable goes out...
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Your posts leads to some questions. You say our society is built on law and order. Who made those laws? And, what right did they have to do so? Who gave them the right to do so as well?

You then state that police have been given the authority to use deadly force. Who gave them this authority? And once again, who gave them the authority to give authority?
 
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#31
#31
Obsessed said:
It's the same thing as our 2nd amendment. Let's take away our rights because of a few wackos.
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I'm not the one here trying to remove our basic rights to life, liberty and pursuit of prosperity/wealth. The cops and their defenders are the ones that are suggesting these limits need to happen in order to do their jobs. I'm all for civil liberties. Shooting a guy down in the street like a dog just because he didn't obey an order is not defending life or liberty.
 
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#32
#32
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Your posts leads to some questions. You say our society is built on law and order. Who made those laws? And, what right did they have to do so? Who gave them the right to do so as well?

You then state that police have been given the authority to use deadly force. Who gave them this authority? And once again, who gave them the authority to give authority?
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Your ancestors.
 
#33
#33
ClearwaterVol said:
I don't think that cops, by and large, are bad people. I think the training they receive has them at odds with the people. Cops should look for non-violent means of conflict resolution and should get to know the people in their patrol area. I know most areas won't allow cops to walk a beat, simply not enough money to have that many cops and only the most urban areas are conducive to that type of patrol. However, getting out of the patrol several times a day just to talk with the people in their area would be time well spent.
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I think your post is very thoughtful and well meaning. I agree completely. However, the police aren't really concerned with public perception. Their main focus is enforcement.
I think your ideas would work with a private sector police force or security firm. Who would actually be held accountable to the ones paying their salaries.
 
#35
#35
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not the one here trying to remove our basic rights to life, liberty and pursuit of prosperity/wealth. The cops and their defenders are the ones that are suggesting these limits need to happen in order to do their jobs. I'm all for civil liberties. Shooting a guy down in the street like a dog just because he didn't obey an order is not defending life or liberty.
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Could it be they are protecting others rights to life and liberty?

I'm not condoning the officers actions. I'm just offering a different point of view.
 
#36
#36
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Your posts leads to some questions. You say our society is built on law and order. Who made those laws? And, what right did they have to do so? Who gave them the right to do so as well?

You then state that police have been given the authority to use deadly force. Who gave them this authority? And once again, who gave them the authority to give authority?
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We did the citizens.
 
#37
#37
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
I think your post is very thoughtful and well meaning. I agree completely. However, the police aren't really concerned with public perception. Their main focus is enforcement.
I think your ideas would work with a private sector police force or security firm. Who would actually be held accountable to the ones paying their salaries.
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Why couldn't a similar approach work with police? The public does pay their salaries and is now demanding accountability.
 
#38
#38
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Ok.
Who gave them the right?
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Themselves.

Laws had to be made. I'm sure you can understand this. Have they gone too far? Yes.

Laws are needed for justification for actions that you, myself, or a police officer makes.

You defend your home or family from a criminal, there are laws that protect you.

A cop kills someone in cold blood, there are laws that prosecute him.
 
#39
#39
ClearwaterVol said:
Why couldn't a similar approach work with police? The public does pay their salaries and is now demanding accountability.
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Well, we do pay in a round about extortion kinda way.

They don't care about your want for accountability, they care about enforcement of the laws set forth by their political masters. That's all.
 
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#40
#40
Biopsyman said:
Nobody ever has to die if they listen to the commands.. Our society is built on law and order and the police had been given the authority to use deadly force... The people who refuse to listen to orders are then making a risky choice.. Let's face it.. Some people do t like the police ans refuse to listen to any commands... They police deal with this lack of respect on a daily basis.. The same people call when 911 when their cable goes out...
Click to expand...

Deadly force is usually the first and only option on something as ridiculous as this case. Granted, he was on PCP or some mind altering drug... I get that. I've had to wrestle and restrain drunk people before, so I'm sure restraining a guy on PCP is not any fun. But having said that, the guy shouldn't have died.
 
#42
#42
Obsessed said:
Themselves.

Laws had to be made. I'm sure you can understand this. Have they gone too far? Yes.

Laws are needed for justification for actions that you, myself, or a police officer makes.

You defend your home or family from a criminal, there are laws that protect you.

A cop kills someone in cold blood, there are laws that prosecute him.
Click to expand...

You're not seeing the point. What right does one man or any group of men have to rule over others?
 
#43
#43
We have entirely too many laws in this country. If this system is to continue, we must get back to protecting persons and property.

If there is no victim, how can there be a crime?
 
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#44
#44
Obsessed said:
Could it be they are protecting others rights to life and liberty?
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With lethal force?

The Chicago case is one that is clearly made for protecting other people's property from damage, but it didn't require loss of life by any stretch.

But who's life and liberties are jeopardized if I carry a few ounces of reefer, have a busted taillight or decide to sell some loose cigarettes?
 
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#45
#45
Obsessed said:
You defend your home or family from a criminal, there are laws that protect you.

A cop kills someone in cold blood, there are laws that prosecute him.
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Can a private homeowner shoot a guy in the street or a few blocks away that had slashed his tires in his driveway?

Can a private homeowner shoot an assailant in the back?
 
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#46
#46
ClearwaterVol said:
Until the people stand up and demand change.
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Seems after *Ferguson and the plethora of other riots and demonstrations over police abuse, these incidents keep happening. I'll argue they always have happened, social media just gives us more access to it now.
My point is, preventive policing is an abject failure. The police are simply the enforcement arm of politicians.

*No, I'm not condoning what happened in Ferguson by either party.
 
#47
#47
DEFENDTHISHOUSE said:
Seems after *Ferguson and the plethora of other riots and demonstrations over police abuse, these incidents keep happening. I'll argue they always have happened, social media just gives us more access to it now.
My point is, preventive policing is an abject failure. The police are simply the enforcement arm of politicians.

*No, I'm not condoning what happened in Ferguson by either party.
Click to expand...

Preventative policing? The police can still enforce laws without looking to do it by force. The UK has had 2 citizens killed by police in the last year.
 
#48
#48
ClearwaterVol said:
Preventative policing? The police can still enforce laws without looking to do it by force. The UK has had 2 citizens killed by police in the last year.
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Preventive policing as defined as keeping up the failed war on drugs. Or, enforcing other victimless crimes.
I don't care about the uk.
 
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