To Protect and to Serve II

#5,178
#5,178
Cdywolfe said:
I know this won’t be popular by the law enforcement crowd but... I’m sorry, when you show up at an innocent man’s house and gun him down 10 seconds into the encounter while he’s unarmed, the onus should be on you prove deadly force was 100% necessary. And by prove I’m gonna need more than they thought (and we’re wrong af btw) he was reaching for a gun.
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Being specific....what would you have done differently?
 
#5,181
#5,181
Cdywolfe said:
I know this won’t be popular by the law enforcement crowd but... I’m sorry, when you show up at an innocent man’s house and gun him down 10 seconds into the encounter while he’s unarmed, the onus should be on you prove deadly force was 100% necessary. And by prove I’m gonna need more than they thought (and we’re wrong af btw) he was reaching for a gun.
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But but but... they’re just trying to go home at the end of the day.
 
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#5,183
#5,183
I don’t expect or want an answer., you can really tell people who have had negative leo experiences now of those I wonder how many were or are breaking the law or had a family member who did. It’s not 💯 but it’s not a low number. My guess
 
#5,184
#5,184
volbeast33 said:
Being specific....what would you have done differently?
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Well for starters I would’ve taken 30 seconds and questioned why a call reporting a hostage situation in Kansas originated in California. Considering there is over 400 swatting incidents a year, a call originating from 1500 miles away should’ve at a minimum given the department pause.

As for the officer himself, like I said before. He needs to be 100% certain deadly force is necessary before pulling the trigger. The “reaching for the waistband” excuse needs to not fly any longer. I’m sorry but officer safety is not more important than mine, it’s not more important than yours, and it wasn’t more important than Andrew Finch’s. They had him outnumbered/surrounded and they were easily 30 yards away, there’s no excuse to shoot an unarmed man in that situation.
 
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#5,185
#5,185
Also... When are we gonna stop just blindly accepting that these unarmed people are weirdly reaching for their waistbands while a group of cops have guns pointed at them?
 
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#5,186
#5,186
vol445 said:
I don’t expect or want an answer., you can really tell people who have had negative leo experiences now of those I wonder how many were or are breaking the law or had a family member who did. It’s not 💯 but it’s not a low number. My guess
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I can’t help but laugh every time I see this. It can’t possibly be that I simply want LE to be held accountable and maybe follow the constitution. No... It’s that I broke the law and I’m now butthurt that some meanie cop caught me.

It the equivalent of some dingleberry liberal telling me I only want to own guns because I have a small penis.
 
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#5,187
#5,187
True. With the exception of how shootings are actually handled. He is first investigated by the ,bureau where the incident occurred, the agency he works for, and the d.a. To make sure the split second decision was right or wrong
 
#5,188
#5,188
Cdywolfe said:
Also... When are we gonna stop just blindly accepting that these unarmed people are weirdly reaching for their waistbands while a group of cops have guns pointed at them?
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that is becoming the modern day "let's sprinkle some crack on him and get the hell out of here"
 
#5,189
#5,189
vol445 said:
True. With the exception of how shootings are actually handled. He is first investigated by the ,bureau where the incident occurred, the agency he works for, and the d.a. To make sure the split second decision was right or wrong
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Listen... I’m not saying the guy did it on purpose. He most likely didn’t. I’m not looking for a murder charge. I just tired of hearing “Well the officer feared for his life so... Sorry”.

It was an innocent, unarmed, father of two who walked out his front door to see what the commotion was about and was shot 10 seconds into the encounter. Oh well the cop thought he had a gun just isn’t good enough.

Like I said above when you blame the guy who placed the call and leave it at that, then that does nothing to incentivize LE to take serious steps to avoid it happening again. And FTR I think the guy who placed the call should be executed but that doesn’t mean we should ignore all the ways LE failed this guy as well.

I want cops to go home to their families at night too. But I’m just not willing to do it at the cost of innocent civilians.
 
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#5,191
#5,191
vol445 said:
True. With the exception of how shootings are actually handled. He is first investigated by the ,bureau where the incident occurred, the agency he works for, and the d.a. To make sure the split second decision was right or wrong
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So he was investigated by groups who have an incentive to cover their ass, and we should take their word for it?
 
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#5,192
#5,192
Chilling Video Shows Cop Taser Boy Riding ATV—from His Patrol Car—Killing Him

This is another one of those instances where I can’t help but wonder why one of the 50 “good” cops standing around didn’t arrest him.

Also... This is one of the few times that I think we’ll see a conviction but, with that said, I won’t be even a little surprised if he walks. After Daniel Shaver nothing will surprise me.
 
#5,193
#5,193
Cdywolfe said:
Well for starters I would’ve taken 30 seconds and questioned why a call reporting a hostage situation in Kansas originated in California. Considering there is over 400 swatting incidents a year, a call originating from 1500 miles away should’ve at a minimum given the department pause.
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I will say this isn't entirely a valid point. People move around and keep their old numbers especially since that number isn't tied to a geographical area like landlines once were.

In my employee base alone, I've got an overwhelming number of Oklahoma numbers, but also some from North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, Colorado and even one from California.
 
#5,194
#5,194
Grand Vol said:
I will say this isn't entirely a valid point. People move around and keep their old numbers especially since that number isn't tied to a geographical area like landlines once were.

In my employee base alone, I've got an overwhelming number of Oklahoma numbers, but also some from North Carolina, Kansas, Texas, Colorado and even one from California.
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I realize this isn’t tv, where they’d just instantly know. But realistically how long would take to figure out where the call was placed (like which cell tower)? 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 2 hours?
 
#5,195
#5,195
Cdywolfe said:
I realize this isn’t tv, where they’d just instantly know. But realistically how long would take to figure out where the call was placed (like which cell tower)? 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 2 hours?
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Then we would be sharing stories about cops not showing up for 2 hours while a little boy was murdered....
 
#5,196
#5,196
Cdywolfe said:
Chilling Video Shows Cop Taser Boy Riding ATV—from His Patrol Car—Killing Him

This is another one of those instances where I can’t help but wonder why one of the 50 “good” cops standing around didn’t arrest him.

Also... This is one of the few times that I think we’ll see a conviction but, with that said, I won’t be even a little surprised if he walks. After Daniel Shaver nothing will surprise me.
Click to expand...

If he was just riding a four wheeler that cop needs to go to jail
 
#5,197
#5,197
Cdywolfe said:
I realize this isn’t tv, where they’d just instantly know. But realistically how long would take to figure out where the call was placed (like which cell tower)? 5 minutes, 15 minutes, 2 hours?
Click to expand...

For every 911 system in the country to have that capability?

I don't know how long it would take to track down a specific cell tower to a specific phone number to be honest. But overhauling the infrastructure of every 911 dispatch in the country with that capability would be an enormous task. And you'd have all sorts of people questioning the system as it allows LEOs far more power than many would want. You want the cops to be able to instantly trace where your phone is calling from without a warrant? There likely is a serious 4th Amendment debate which would ensue over such a system.
 
#5,199
#5,199
Grand Vol said:
For every 911 system in the country to have that capability?

I don't know how long it would take to track down a specific cell tower to a specific phone number to be honest. But overhauling the infrastructure of every 911 dispatch in the country with that capability would be an enormous task. And you'd have all sorts of people questioning the system as it allows LEOs far more power than many would want. You want the cops to be able to instantly trace where your phone is calling from without a warrant? There likely is a serious 4th Amendment debate which would ensue over such a system.
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Far enough but I kinda feel like you waive your right to privacy (regarding your location) when you call 911 and report a hostage situation.
 
#5,200
#5,200
Grand Vol said:
For every 911 system in the country to have that capability?

I don't know how long it would take to track down a specific cell tower to a specific phone number to be honest. But overhauling the infrastructure of every 911 dispatch in the country with that capability would be an enormous task. And you'd have all sorts of people questioning the system as it allows LEOs far more power than many would want. You want the cops to be able to instantly trace where your phone is calling from without a warrant? There likely is a serious 4th Amendment debate which would ensue over such a system.
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Calls being placed to 911? Absolutely! Not only do I want it, I expect it. If I'm being held hostage the only thing I may be able to do is dial 911. I hope they can trace it and find me.
 
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