To Protect and to Serve II

#5,201
#5,201
Cdywolfe said:
Far enough but I kinda feel like you waive your right to privacy (regarding your location) when you call 911 and report a hostage situation.
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Still, there is a 4th Amendment debate that must happen. Even as abused as that Amendment has been, this does cross into a serious gray area that screams it's likely to be abused over the long run. Give an inch, take a mile. First, it's just hostage situations, then it turns into the cops chasing down false reporting of other crimes and minor acts.

Be careful, we've entered the Twilight Zone here when you're asking for more authority for cops and I'm saying it's not a great idea.
 
#5,202
#5,202
Grand Vol said:
For every 911 system in the country to have that capability?

I don't know how long it would take to track down a specific cell tower to a specific phone number to be honest. But overhauling the infrastructure of every 911 dispatch in the country with that capability would be an enormous task. And you'd have all sorts of people questioning the system as it allows LEOs far more power than many would want. You want the cops to be able to instantly trace where your phone is calling from without a warrant? There likely is a serious 4th Amendment debate which would ensue over such a system.
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I just assumed they already had that type of power anyways.

And since when has LE ever been concerned about 4th Amendment violations? WTF do you call "stop and frisk" and "DUI checkpoints"?
 
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#5,203
#5,203
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
So he was investigated by groups who have an incentive to cover their ass, and we should take their word for it?
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Not saying that. But that are three separate times an officer is investigated. whom else should judge him?

I agree on the dept but the other two will hang Leo out to dry when given the chance. They have nothing to gain
 
#5,204
#5,204
vol445 said:
Not saying that. But that are three separate times an officer is investigated. whom else should judge him?

I agree on the dept but the other two will hang Leo out to dry when given the chance. They have nothing to gain
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Prosecutors and police are in bed together. They're dependant on one another.

I'd like to see all police shootings handled by a civilian oversight committee, elected by and answerable to the people.
 
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#5,205
#5,205
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Prosecutors and police are in bed together. They're dependant on one another.

I'd like to see all police shootings handled by a civilian oversight committee, elected by and answerable to the people.
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The only problem is that far too many people are simply okay with cops killing people.

For instance the cop who tazed the kid on SUV that I posted about earlier, there’s an insane amount of people that are okay with what he did.
 
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#5,206
#5,206
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Prosecutors and police are in bed together. They're dependant on one another.

I'd like to see all police shootings handled by a civilian oversight committee, elected by and answerable to the people.
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You willing to pay more taxes for that "big Government"? Didn't think so. Damn, I hear your screeching now if that would happen.
 
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#5,207
#5,207
MyBloodRunnethOrange said:
Prosecutors and police are in bed together. They're dependant on one another.

I'd like to see all police shootings handled by a civilian oversight committee, elected by and answerable to the people.
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Yeah that’s the answer the very people who for a large part don’t understand the laws to begin with. I say that because even when cleared people holler injustice, which is a clear indication they do not understand the laws. Again not saying every time neither is 100% foolproof.
 
#5,208
#5,208
vol445 said:
Yeah that’s the answer the very people who for a large part don’t understand the laws to begin with. I say that because even when cleared people holler injustice, which is a clear indication they do not understand the laws. Again not saying every time neither is 100% foolproof.
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There is no fault or shame in not understanding an unjust law. Any law that allows LEOs to kill with very little punitive action is perplexing to most people.
 
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#5,210
#5,210
Rasputin_Vol said:
I just assumed they already had that type of power anyways.

And since when has LE ever been concerned about 4th Amendment violations? WTF do you call "stop and frisk" and "DUI checkpoints"?
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They don't. And for good reason. Every law / statute has pros and cons, and can be exploited by those who have no respect for the spirit of the law. Tough ground to plow.

LE isn't your issue here. The Supreme Court is. They called it "legal". Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately for your argument, there's no way to tell how many criminals have been caught by "S&F", or how many lives have been saved by DUI checkpoints.

Or you could just chalk it up to the fact that MADD swings a bigger stick than you do.

But back to your "assumption", Travis Dane had some insight into that particular subject.

:hi:
 
#5,213
#5,213
GreyWolf1129 said:
They don't. And for good reason. Every law / statute has pros and cons, and can be exploited by those who have no respect for the spirit of the law. Tough ground to plow.

LE isn't your issue here. The Supreme Court is. They called it "legal". Unfortunately, or perhaps fortunately for your argument, there's no way to tell how many criminals have been caught by "S&F", or how many lives have been saved by DUI checkpoints.

Or you could just chalk it up to the fact that MADD swings a bigger stick than you do.

But back to your "assumption", Travis Dane had some insight into that particular subject.

:hi:
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Police have had the power to trace back the origin of land line 911 calls, I just assumed the same was true for cellphone 911 calls... and I don't think it would be that hard for them to do.
 
#5,214
#5,214
Rasputin_Vol said:
Police have had the power to trace back the origin of land line 911 calls, I just assumed the same was true for cellphone 911 calls... and I don't think it would be that hard for them to do.
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The local news did a thing about it comparing 911 to Uber when finding you. Lesson learned was hope your Uber driver has a gun or knows first aid.
 
#5,215
#5,215
Rasputin_Vol said:
Police have had the power to trace back the origin of land line 911 calls, I just assumed the same was true for cellphone 911 calls... and I don't think it would be that hard for them to do.
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It's not quite that simple. There are a lot of factors that come to play. If it is a up-to-date phone, has dialed 911, and has hit a local tower about 75% of the time we can get what is called "phase 2" info. Most cases that will place us between 20-300yds of the phone depending on carrier and geography. That other 25% of the time we get what is called a "no bid" that gives us nothing but the tower it hit. Now if a call is transferred from another jurisdiction (happens a lot with cell calls because they are routed first to jurisdiction of the tower they hit) or if they call in on a 7 digit line it is impossible to ping and get a "phase 2" location. The best we can do is if we get the number from caller id, and can identify the carrier we can call and have a trace requested. The problem with that is, due to privacy we have to a: prove it's a life and death energy, b: have to send a written request by email or fax, c: wait on them to recall us to verify who we are, d: wait on approval, & e: finally wait on the actual trace. All together it takes 15-30 minutes on average, and is very unreliable. Of the last 6 I've traced, 1 came back with coordinates, 4 with only bearing and distance from last tower, and 1 was unreachable/no info. This is definitely one part of the system TV gets wrong. If they block the number, or call from a disconnected cell with 911 access only it is impossible to do anything in any useful time frame. Then you're talking hours to get the centers phone company to pull phone logs, only then to go through all the other steps.
 
#5,217
#5,217
Rasputin_Vol said:
Just wondering if the LEOs in here could answer this. If you were given the order to collect the guns of civilians, what would they do?
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I’m kinda curious about that too and would actually like to compound on that question. What are your thoughts on Joe Citizen who chooses to, in that scenario, defend his property by any mean necessary? Patriot or scumbag?

Unfortunately if the cops showed up at my house I’d probably hand over a small percentage of my arms and attempt to conceal the rest. I have a wife and 4 kids and fully realize that having a shoot out the police is a battle I’d certainly loose. With that said though, I’d have absolutely no doubt who the criminal in that scenario is.
 
#5,218
#5,218
I think a lot would depend on how radical it was but as much as I give LE grief, I do think in a large scale confiscation there would be a handful of departments who stood by the constitution and refused to disarm law abiding citizens.

Not many but there’s be a small handful for sure.
 
#5,219
#5,219
Cdywolfe said:
I think a lot would depend on how radical it was but as much as I give LE grief, I do think in a large scale confiscation there would be a handful of departments who stood by the constitution and refused to disarm law abiding citizens.

Not many but there’s be a small handful for sure.
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Most LEO I know would laugh and say **** no, I ain’t doing that.
 
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#5,224
#5,224
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ok, what if the LEOs were asked to search homes/door-to-door for a some kind of contraband without a warrant. Let's just say it was a door-to-door marijuana search.
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I doubt many would volunteer to do that either but it’s a little different going to confiscate pot from someone who may or may not have a gun to going to someone’s house who definitely has one.
 
#5,225
#5,225
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ok, what if the LEOs were asked to search homes/door-to-door for a some kind of contraband without a warrant. Let's just say it was a door-to-door marijuana search.
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So your question is how would most LEOs act if they were directed to conduct an unlawful search and seizure door to door? Really?🙄
 
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