The Venezuela thread

[LSU-SIU]

Hong Kong was always scheduled to return to China under treaty. They were never their own entity and were still under direct control of the Brits who turned Hong Kong back over to China.

As is Taiwan, playing pretend works for a while.

If the PRC was smart they would be the ones funding the chip factories in the US. because once those are up and running the last real obstacle besides the island itself will be removed.

True. There will be no need for it outside of Asia, if that.

 

[LouderVol]

Really? You are going to compare the two? The UN is basically structured to be a paper tiger and unfortunately can have agendas of their own, especially dependent to whoever is running the show. This cat was so bad to his own people he had to have Cuban bodyguards and security force. Could not trust his own people and for good reason.

I didn't compare the two. I just said trying to use the UN to justify our acts is a bad idea. thats a pandora's box of bad.

I do get a great chuckle from all the new found globalists in Trumps camp. trying to pass off the UN as justification, worried about other country's "freedom", justifying military strikes for the fun of it. how quickly yall turn into the swamp you thought he was draining.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I didn't compare the two. I just said trying to use the UN to justify our acts is a bad idea. thats a pandora's box of bad.

I do get a great chuckle from all the new found globalists in Trumps camp. trying to pass off the UN as justification, worried about other country's "freedom", justifying military strikes for the fun of it. how quickly yall turn into the swamp you thought he was draining.

It is interesting to watch. I think they are quite confused at the moment. I'm torn on the subject because I think its being done (or attempted) for good but.... 1.) i don't think all this works in any way 2.) even if it did, its the ends justifies the means on some level

Its hard to know how to feel.

 

[LouderVol]

As is Taiwan, playing pretend works for a while.



True. There will be no need for it outside of Asia, if that.

What? Taiwan, the ROC, was never under British control in any meaningful way. it was never scheduled to be given to the PRC. the PRC has literally never controlled Taiwan, they have no claim to Taiwan except a war that went cold without being resolved.

The ROC has always been independent.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

I'm sure he's double checked all the numbers using only the most reputable sources. @W.TN.Orange Blood 's really a stickler for accuracy.

 

[LSU-SIU]

What? Taiwan, the ROC, was never under British control in any meaningful way. it was never scheduled to be given to the PRC. the PRC has literally never controlled Taiwan, they have no claim to Taiwan except a war that went cold without being resolved.

The ROC has always been independent.

It doesn't matter. They are scheduled to be re-incorporated, what you or they think should happen is not material.

 

[LouderVol]

It is interesting to watch. I think they are quite confused at the moment. I'm torn on the subject because I think its being done (or attempted) for good but.... 1.) i don't think all this works in any way 2.) even if it did, its the ends justifies the means on some level

Its hard to know how to feel.

same way we all should have felt about Iraq 2 and Afghanistan.

our good intentions rarely work out. too many interested parties get involved and it turns into a mess the US funds one way or another.

 

[LSU-SIU]

same way we all should have felt about Iraq 2 and Afghanistan.

our good intentions rarely work out. too many interested parties get involved and it turns into a mess the US funds one way or another.

Taiwan is recognized by all the major players as being a part of China. The South didn't want to be a part of the U.S. Same thing. They can fight it out, I have no problem with that but all of that is immaterial.

I'm not sure there will be much fighting to be honest. I just look at it as internal politics. I mean what do you think your State is going to do, if you build a fence and you have a DOT right of way on your property and you post armed guards and don't let DOT on the property? You're going to lose.

Unless you can come to an agreement, you going to have to fight for your independence - see 1776.

If not for China, the U.S. could come in there and take over right now.

 

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[Redleg68]

It is interesting to watch. I think they are quite confused at the moment. I'm torn on the subject because I think its being done (or attempted) for good but.... 1.) i don't think all this works in any way 2.) even if it did, its the ends justifies the means on some level

Its hard to know how to feel.

It is a mixed bag. It could very well be that removing Maduro was a good side benefit to the real reason. I still feel that stopping China's play in the region figures into this very strongly.

 

[CobbVol]

We can't claim credit.

Maybe in your magic world.

 

[LSU-SIU]

It is a mixed bag. It could very well be that removing Maduro was a good side benefit to the real reason. I still feel that stopping China's play in the region figures into this very strongly.

The bold is what this is about. The puppet better lose China's phone number or... off to the room with bars he will go.

 

[hog88]

Hong Kong was always scheduled to return to China under treaty. They were never their own entity and were still under direct control of the Brits who turned Hong Kong back over to China.

The ROC has no obligation to join the PRC. they were never the same thing. that is a division maintained by guns and bloodshed, not paper. even things like the One China policy state that we will treat both Chinas like they treat each other. its a misconception to say that treaty says there is only one china, the truth is there is only one US stance on the China question. violence will not be tolerated by either side to end the other.

If the PRC was smart they would be the ones funding the chip factories in the US. because once those are up and running the last real obstacle besides the island itself will be removed.

Nixon's biggest foreign policy blunder was the One China policy.

 

[swampfoxfan]

were you this concerned when Obama did the same (on another continent) ?

But but but but but...

 

[FLVOL_79]

The Venezuela op was just to take heat off the epstein list release lack of transparency.

 

[LouderVol]

Taiwan is recognized by all the major players as being a part of China. The South didn't want to be a part of the U.S. Same thing. They can fight it out, I have no problem with that but all of that is immaterial.

I'm not sure there will be much fighting to be honest. I just look at it as internal politics. I mean what do you think your State is going to do, if you build a fence and you have a DOT right of way on your property and you post armed guards and don't let DOT on the property? You're going to lose.

Unless you can come to an agreement, you going to have to fight for your independence - see 1776.

If not for China, the U.S. could come in there and take over right now.

its not the same thing as the American civil war. if you wanted to make that comparison it would be more accurate to say Taiwan/PRC was the North who lost the mainland, they wouldn't be the south.

the PRC and ROC were never one thing. they were never under one flag, you have to go way beyond the alleged Founding Fathers of both, Mao and Kai-Shek, to find any common ground to call it a civil war on the level of the US or most civil wars. like I said the PRC has never controlled Taiwan. never, not once in their history have they held sway there. that has never been a claim the PRC has been strong enough to actually make.

 

[LSU-SIU]

its not the same thing as the American civil war. if you wanted to make that comparison it would be more accurate to say Taiwan/PRC was the North who lost the mainland, they wouldn't be the south.

the PRC and ROC were never one thing. they were never under one flag, you have to go way beyond the alleged Founding Fathers of both, Mao and Kai-Shek, to find any common ground to call it a civil war on the level of the US or most civil wars. like I said the PRC has never controlled Taiwan. never, not once in their history have they held sway there. that has never been a claim the PRC has been strong enough to actually make.

We can agree to disagree (as the rest of world would disagree) but its immaterial. They'll have to fight for their independence, regardless they will lose if it comes to that... my guess is not much of a fight.

Literally, they will probably just shut everything down for a while and give them some time to think about it.

 

[Orange_Crush]

You should read it again, in particular the parts about respecting sovereignty and Venezuelans being the ones to make their own changes.

I guess it depends on how you interpret it. The statement about Maduro being illegitimate may just be recognizing that removing him IS respecting Venezuela's sovereignty and is only now allowing the Venezuelan people to begin determining their future.

 

[LouderVol]

We can agree to disagree (as the rest of world would disagree) but its immaterial. They'll have to fight for their independence, regardless they will lose if it comes to that.

If the PRC ever actually thought that, they would have invaded a long time ago and never accepted the One China Policy. See Tibet and any of the other chinese expansions for examples.

the One China Policy covers up their inability to defeat the ROC. remains to be seen what will happen in an invasion today, but its clear the PRC didn't have the power in the past.

 

[FLVOL_79]

I hope people here understand Taiwan is an island...

 

[LSU-SIU]

If the PRC ever actually thought that, they would have invaded a long time ago and never accepted the One China Policy. See Tibet and any of the other chinese expansions for examples.

the One China Policy covers up their inability to defeat the ROC. remains to be seen what will happen in an invasion today, but its clear the PRC didn't have the power in the past.

Its not hard, they just turn everything off and give them some time to think about it.

 

[LSU-SIU]

I hope people here understand Taiwain is an island...

Apparently not.

 

[volbound1700]

Very good question. The intelligence agencies, since 911, take EVERY threat at face value imo. 911 was an embarrassment to them as I also believe 10/7 was to Israel. When it’s routed up to the leaders they are presented with the information, and a solution. What would you do as President when your intelligence agencies, led by people you picked, said there was an imminent threat?

It usually goes to Joint Chiefs amd a Situational room with Cabinet heads and others so decisions aren't made in a vacuum normally.

Edit: my point is that our understanding of the world is limited and the informational flow to us isn't the best or more accurate info.

 

[LouderVol]

Apparently not.

doesn't change the conversation. part of a military's strength is its ability to invade islands if they want to actually take that island. if they can't take an island, then clearly there is a weakness in said military making them too weak to do their job.

 

[tim]

It usually goes to Joint Chiefs amd a Situational room with Cabinet heads and others so decisions aren't made in a vacuum normally.

Of course I didn’t go through the entire process of intel gathering and how it’s meted out, but yes, it’s very layered. My point was/is, what do you do in the same circumstance?