The Venezuela thread

[Orange_Crush]

"Our current strategy of nation-building and regime change is a proven, absolute failure."

- Donald Trump, from a 2016 Republican Presidential Primary debate, he would later specificically cite Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria as examples.

"We need to stop racing to topple foreign regimes, that we know nothing about, that we shouldn't be involved with."

- Donald Trump, in a 2015 interview with Sean Hannity, where he called Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton "war-mongers."

This is a remarkable shift in ideology.

How so?

 

[tim]

LOL.

Yes. It is.

.... and this is such a cult.

Too much TDS. Read each word in your post, you may need help with the big words.

 

[Orange_Crush]

LOL.

Yes. It is.

.... and this is such a cult.

Again... How so? I assume you can read since you've chosen a web forum to communicate on.

 

[Sea Ray]

US, China, and to a degree Russia and India. Secondary players Israel, Saudi, and nuclear powers hold obvious some cards.

Once again no documentation. Show your work

 

[tim]

Again... How so? I assume you can read since you've chosen a web forum to communicate on.

He can’t define a woman and his retort is saying someone is in a cult.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Once again no documentation. Show your work

Yeah. They're not going to be writing it down for you.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Last administration puts 25M bounty on “head” of Latin American country. Trump gets the head of Latin American country mentioned and it’s kidnapping.

Liberal logic for those with TDS.

I think its called international kidnapping. Nothing new though. The U.S. has been doing it for 50+ years, sometimes it doesn't go as planned.

Abu Omar case - Wikipedia

 

[Majors]

Trump has to get this right, I know I’m stating the obvious, but a failure here will lead to a Bernie acolyte as our next president. They’re gonna go as far left as they can if this is a flop. Huge gamble. On a side note, politics aside, I pray the Venezuelan people get what they deserve.. I saw something that showed that the population lost 19% in body weight after socialization kicked in.

It started Sat. with the celebrations by the people.

The left will go against all things Trump while he’s in office, so no matter if he’s right, it’ll be wrong for them to up the charade.

 

[Orange_Crush]

"Our current strategy of nation-building and regime change is a proven, absolute failure."

- Donald Trump, from a 2016 Republican Presidential Primary debate, he would later specificically cite Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria as examples.

"We need to stop racing to topple foreign regimes, that we know nothing about, that we shouldn't be involved with."

- Donald Trump, in a 2015 interview with Sean Hannity, where he called Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton "war-mongers."

This is a remarkable shift in ideology.

I'm certain I am in the minority opinion on this but I think it is a remarkable shift in rhetoric. I don't think DJT embraces an ideology outside of 'I do what I want'.

America-first seems to include acting in America's interest on the global stage. So, one would have to ask if a nuclear Iran would have possibly been a detriment to the US, and whether the claims that Maduro has been asymmetrically attacking the US are true.

So, for that to be a shift in rhetoric, I guess one would have to prove/assume that the Trump admin is using the same strategy, and that they are "nation building" in the same way, and in situations that don't affect the US.

America-First has never been posed as a binary that we will not be active on the global stage or in our hemisphere. My understanding was just the opposite. It was a promise that we'll act when needed, and it will be for our benefit when we do.

 

[tim]

I think its called international kidnapping. Nothing new though. The U.S. has been doing it for 50+ years, sometimes it doesn't go as planned.

Abu Omar case - Wikipedia

One man’s “kidnapping” is another man’s “arrest”. Recently, the left has been calling ICE arrest operations “kidnappings”. They’re boiling the frogs. Also, something that they started to say and backfired was “don’t follow any unlawful orders”. Senator Kelly will be made an example of.

 

[BowlBrother85]

I would look at it as a shift in the world order.

Trump's foreign policy mantra of isolationism and non-interventionist rhetoric had a lot to do with his meteoric rise in popularity in 2015. The MAGA crowd ate it up.

It's hard to make sense of what the United States foreign policy stands for right now. It's chaotic as hell.

 

[Sea Ray]

Yeah. They're not going to be writing it down for you.

Just 'cause a guy on a UT website says it doesn't mean I'm going to take it as a fact. Let the record show I asked for documentation and you provided nothing

 

[Orange_Crush]

Trump's foreign policy mantra of isolationism and non-interventionist rhetoric had a lot to do with his meteoric rise in popularity in 2015. The MAGA crowd ate it up.

It's hard to make sense of what the United States foreign policy stands for right now. It's chaotic as hell.

It stands for America-First, I do believe. And do you have any quotes that Trump promised "isolationism", as opposed to the America-first quotes that you misrepresented above?

 

[LSU-SIU]

Trump's foreign policy mantra of isolationism and non-interventionist rhetoric had a lot to do with his meteoric rise in popularity in 2015. The MAGA crowd ate it up.

It's hard to make sense of what the United States foreign policy stands for right now. It's chaotic as hell.

It would appears to be a new world order which I didn't want to believe a few weeks ago. The person I spoke appears to be correct. (we'll see)

I'm torn on the subject, but lots of people are going to have to go.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Just 'cause a guy on a UT website says it doesn't mean I'm going to take it as a fact. Let the record show I asked for documentation and you provided nothing

Ask Trump, and he will go off on you.

 

[hog88]

"Our current strategy of nation-building and regime change is a proven, absolute failure."

- Donald Trump, from a 2016 Republican Presidential Primary debate, he would later specifically cite Iraq, Libya, Egypt and Syria as examples.

"We need to stop racing to topple foreign regimes, that we know nothing about, that we shouldn't be involved with."

- Donald Trump, in a 2015 interview with Sean Hannity, where he called Barack Obama and Hillary Clinton "war-mongers."

This is a remarkable shift in ideology.

At least for the time being this regime change does look different than the ones Trump mentioned in the debate. With all of those we just didn't take out the principle, we took out the entire bureaucracy and military leadership. IMO taking out the entire govt structure was a mistake, it created a power vacuum to great to peacefully transition.

 

[swampfoxfan]

Missouri or South Carolina?

Your choice

 

[tim]

At least for the time being this regime change does different than the ones Trump mentioned in the debate. With all of those we just didn't take out the principle, we took out the entire bureaucracy and military leadership. IMO taking out the entire govt structure was a mistake, it created a power vacuum to great to peacefully transition.

This may be the CIA learning from past mistakes. Interesting.

 

[LSU-SIU]

At least for the time being this regime change does different than the ones Trump mentioned in the debate. With all of those we just didn't take out the principle, we took out the entire bureaucracy and military leadership. IMO taking out the entire govt structure was a mistake, it created a power vacuum to great to peacefully transition.

As long as they generally do what they are told i.e. don't answer the call from China, I would assume the U.S. will stay out of it. Hard to imagine how things remain stable for long though.

 

[tim]

As long as they generally do what they are told i.e. don't answer the call from China, I would assume the U.S. will stay out of it. Hard to imagine how things remain stable for long though.

My guess is we will have a presence. Especially as security around their oilfields. I believe that is the key to Venezuelas prosperity

 

[LSU-SIU]

My guess is we will have a presence. Especially as security around their oilfields. I believe that is the key to Venezuelas prosperity

I think that is what everyone is going to be told, actually they already are. This really isn't about Venezuela, they are just one piece of the pie.

 

[Vol8188]

How does this make them less likely to do so?

Shows a willingness to act. The complete opposite of Biden when he said he didn’t know if he would act if Russia invaded Ukraine, and within about a week Russia took him up on it.

 

[tim]

I think that is what everyone is going to be told, actually they already are. This really isn't about Venezuela, they are just one piece of the pie.

Venezuela is the crust. The pie can’t be made without the crust. They can try, but they won’t have solid footing.

 

[BowlBrother85]

America-first seems to include acting in America's interest on the global stage. So, one would have to ask if a nuclear Iran would have possibly been a detriment to the US, and whether the claims that Maduro has been asymmetrically attacking the US are true.

So, for that to be a shift in rhetoric, I guess one would have to prove/assume that the Trump admin is using the same strategy, and that they are "nation building" in the same way, and in situations that don't affect the US.

America-First has never been posed as a binary that we will not be active on the global stage or in our hemisphere. My understanding was just the opposite. It was a promise that we'll act when needed, and it will be for our benefit when we do.

You can't reconcile this approach to Venezuela with Trump's 2016 campaign rhetoric concerning foreign policy.

A denial of that isn't reasonable.

 

[LSU-SIU]

You can't reconcile this approach to Venezuela with Trump's 2016 campaign rhetoric concerning foreign policy.

A denial of that isn't reasonable.

You are correct, but I am torn on the subject. Either way, I continue to underestimate the Orange bastard.