The Venezuela thread

[W.TN.Orange Blood]

 

[Majors]

I think the typical Trump voter is probably feeling a little bit like Alice tumbling down the rabbit hole...

Feeling pretty good right now with my vote and the results.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I agree with that. However, the one wild card factor with Trump is he's likely to say one thing and then a week later, he's bombing nuclear sites in the middle of the night.

I don't think Trump wants to defend Taiwan, but I also don't think he is the appeasement personality with China.

With Biden and traditional dems, they want to appease their way to foreign policy fights....

You always knew where Biden was going to stand and what his course of action would be. Not necessarily the same with Trump. Not that I'm taking sides here.

AI is the new arms race. Trump will defend Taiwan, and it will align with America-First doctrine.

 

[JMSqb11]

AI is the new arms race. Trump will defend Taiwan, and it will align with America-First doctrine.

That's my view of it too. I don't think defending Taiwan, Israel, and even Ukraine is "globalist taking over"

Like there is a clear sales pitch why arming Ukraine while not having to put one boot on the ground is advantageous to us. I just wish Trump would come out and say that because Putin is getting made to be a clown now that we are 3.5-4 years into this. With time, it only gets worse for Putin.

 

[Orange_Crush]

What did he mean by "change a society"?

Is "trying to install democracy where it has never existed, to people who don't want it" the same as "freeing the use of existing democratic institutions in a country where they have been subverted, and the people are desperate for it to happen"?

 

[Sea Ray]

The following may help with who did what when.

https://www.congress.gov/crs-product/IF12503

Nowhere did the USA agree to Taiwan becoming Communist

 

[LSU-SIU]

Feeling pretty good right now with my vote and the results.

I don't vote, but looking at it... I'm torn on the subject. I understand the bigger picture "why", but it is kind outside the scope of what I consider right.

 

[EasternVol]

https://www.ohchr.org/en/hr-bodies/hrc/ffmv/index

Thanks for the report but I meant the answer is the UN.

 

[LSU-SIU]

What did he mean by "change a society"?

Is "trying to install democracy where it has never existed, to people who don't want it" the same as "freeing the use of existing democratic institutions in a country where they have been subverted, and the people are desperate for it to happen"?

This was the same thing that was said about Vietnam. Nobody is coming to save them for democracy - matter of fact, its very possible no elections are held until the Orange man believes its safe. If the puppet doesn't do what he is told, he will be behind bars. If they elect the wrong person, they don't do what they are told... to the room with bars.

 

[Vol8188]

Listen to yourself.

You imply that Russia invaded Ukraine because Biden said he did not know what he would do if they did.

Trump has refused to commit to defending Taiwan.

By your reasoning, that is open invitation to China to invade.

lol you and I both know China doesn’t believe that. Of the two, Trump has been significantly harder on China. One of Biden’s many criticisms has been that he was way too warm towards China.

 

[Orange_Crush]

This was the same thing that was said about Vietnam. Nobody is coming to save them for democracy - matter of fact, its very possible no elections are held until the Orange man believes its safe.

OK. Again... And?

Does that change the point I made, or the binary that the post I replied to was trying to create? Libs in here are refusing nuance in order to try to enforce a binary that doesn't seem to exist in the administration's policy.

And we'll have to wait and see how this plays out. I'm willing to do that while others throw **** on the wall to feed their agenda.

 

[LSU-SIU]

OK. Again... And?

Does that change the point I made, or the binary that the post I replied to was trying to create? Libs in here are refusing nuance in order to try to enforce a binary that doesn't seem to exist in the administration's policy.

And we'll have to wait and see how this plays out. I'm willing to do that while others throw **** on the wall to feed their agenda.

What you are doing is kind of nonsense. You didn't free those people for democracy. They are your slave.

Trump is being transparent.

RUBIO: This Is Our Hemisphere — and President Trump Will Not Allow Our Security to be Threatened

Democracy: Where a big Orange man tells you what to do.

 

[EasternVol]

Nowhere did the USA agree to Taiwan becoming Communist

What did it look like we agreed to?

 

[lawgator1]

lol you and I both know China doesn’t believe that. Of the two, Trump has been significantly harder on China. One of Biden’s many criticisms has been that he was way too warm towards China.

Then why not embrace defending Taiwan ?

 

[Orange_Crush]

What you are doing is kind of nonsense. You didn't free those people for democracy. They are your slave.

Trump is being transparent.

RUBIO: This Is Our Hemisphere — and President Trump Will Not Allow Our Security to be Threatened

Democracy: Where a big Orange man tells you what to do.

Again... I'm showing the alignment with the administration's promised America-First policies and their current argument. The claims have been that trump's America-First promises were promising isolationism. My argument has been that they are moving globally for America's benefit, and not in the same way that previous admins acted globally.

Why do you insist on arguing red herrings?

I have already stated that the US intervened in Venezuela for our own benefit. I'm not sure why you would thing that a "gotcha-moment"? (And for the record, building a stable, legitimate democracy in Venezuela is not contradictory to the US's benefit.)

Is it your contention that interacting in a historically democratic country, with preexisting/current democratic mechanisms, and a population that craves democracy is not different than trying to install democracy in the Middle East where they have never had it and do not want it?

From your link:

“The whole foreign policy apparatus thinks everything is Libya, everything is Iraq, everything is Afghanistan. This is not the Middle East, and our mission here is very different. This is the Western Hemisphere.”

Again, I'm not sure why you want to argue red herrings to my point? ^^^ That was the point of my post that you responded to. ^^^ Little more and little less.

And we'll see how this bakes out, per your "slave" comment. I've been following the admin's responses on this pretty closely as it's made me pretty nervous about the administration--and the Greenland rhetoric triple-so. The admin has also stated that their goal is to oversee the process to guarantee free elections so that the people of Venezuela get the say in what happens.

And do you know what I hear them saying? "Yay!"

Agree with it or not, this is not a reverse from what they promised with America-First. It's exactly what they promised so no one should be surprised. That's my point, no matter what argument you want to invent for me.


(FFS, all I've really been saying is that Trump has been transparent about his agenda all along. You're response is that I'm posting nonsense because Trump is being transparent. Geez Us, man.)

 

[SpaceCoastVol]

Then why not embrace defending Taiwan ?

Because you would be screeching that Trump is gonna get us into a foreign war.

 

[Vol8188]

Then why not embrace defending Taiwan ?

He’s stated that he doesn’t discuss military plans and that China wouldn’t want to try that while he’s president.

Seems clear to me.

 

[LSU-SIU]

Again... I'm showing the alignment with the administration's promised America-First policies and their current argument. The claims have been that trump's America-First promises were promising isolationism. My argument has been that they are moving globally for America's benefit, and not in the same way that previous admins acted globally.

Why do you insist on arguing red herrings?

I have already stated that the US intervened in Venezuela for our own benefit. I'm not sure why you would thing that a "gotcha-moment"? (And for the record, building a stable, legitimate democracy in Venezuela is not contradictory to the US's benefit.)

Is it your contention that interacting in a historically democratic country, with preexisting/current democratic mechanisms, and a population that craves democracy is not different than trying to install democracy in the Middle East where they have never had it and do not want it?

From your link:



Again, I'm not sure why you want to argue red herrings to my point? ^^^ That was the point of my post that you responded to. ^^^ Little more and little less.

And we'll see how this bakes out, per your "slave" comment. I've been following the admin's responses on this pretty closely as it's made me pretty nervous about the administration--and the Greenland rhetoric triple-so. The admin has also stated that their goal is to oversee the process to guarantee free elections so that the people of Venezuela get the say in what happens.

And do you know what I hear them saying? "Yay!"

Agree with it or not, this is not a reverse from what they promised with America-First. It's exactly what they promised so no one should be surprised. That's my point, no matter what argument you want to invent for me.

Exactly, they are your slave and they better do what he tells them, and it has nothing to do with democracy for Venezuelans.

The admin has also stated that their goal is to oversee the process to guarantee free elections so that the people of Venezuela get the say in what happens.

You are very confused as to this as you are making it something it isn't. He made a deal to with a puppet and the puppet will do what he says or else, eventually, they can hold elections but anyone else better do what he tells them. Its very clear.

 

[Orange_Crush]

Exactly, they are your slave and they better do what he tells them, and has nothing to do with democracy for Venezuelans .

You are such a waste of time.

 

[LSU-SIU]

You are such a waste of time.

You are trying to convince yourself that its something other than what it is. Its very clear. He installed a puppet, than at some point when he thinks its safe... you let them hold elections, but the next puppet better stay within the guidelines or ..... to the jail cell.

Its CIA/H.W. stuff, its not new. Why because you're not sending troops?

 

[Orange_Crush]

You are trying to convince yourself that its something other than what it is.

Its very clear.

If that came from someone who had proven the ability to at least follow an argument, it may hit differently. Carry on. Like I said, you're proving to be an immense waste of time.

 

[Carl Pickens]

This is a perfect example of accidentally stating you aren't interested in the truth and just want reassurance that what you believe is the truth. Poor snowflake.

I’m still snickering over your Jack LaLanne comment. That was a good one

 

[LSU-SIU]

If that came from someone who had proven the ability to at least follow an argument, it may hit differently. Carry on. Like I said, you're proving to be an immense waste of time.

There really is no argument, if you feel like its okay... that is up to you or not. But it is what it is.

 

[Orange_Crush]

There really is no argument, if you feel like its okay... that is up to you or not. But it is what it is.

Like I said. I'm waiting to see. I'm nervous about this, and the Greenland rhetoric more so. My point has been that trump didn't promise isolationism, no matter how one feels about it.

You're inventing ****. You do you.

 

[Carl Pickens]

First, how do you know those numbers are correct vs just made up?
Second, there is a huge difference in supporting a dictator, and being critical of an action of the potus which is probably illegal.

Who knows if they’re accurate? I do know that there have been executions of citizens in the streets though. A lady my wife works with is from there and she’s been telling stories from her family that’s still in Venezuela about the atrocities for several years now.