Swain hints at opt-outs

[DarkAvenger]

Totally agree. I have a much greater fear of a new rushed vaccine than I do of the Covid, and I’m in my 60’s

Stick me with it, I’m 30 and if I kick the bucket the old lady gets 500,000 and season tickets to Tennessee.

 

[a vol n tears]

I’m a physician. What are your credentials? And what “truths” do you have to teach us about? Love to hear your conspiracy theories, I imagine they will be quite entertaining.

Great respect for your dedication for your profession, however just saying you are a physician does not mean you know all. I recently had the unfortunate chance of going to see 2 different Dr, in the same town, within 2 hours of each other. Asked both what their opinions of Covid were, and got 2 completely different opinions. Both agree it is real but differ on the severity and if it is a pandemic. Also the Dr who thought it was severe, knew a family who had lost a loved one. However he was in his 80’s and had several other issues.

 

[sjt18]

I’m a physician. What are your credentials? And what “truths” do you have to teach us about? Love to hear your conspiracy theories, I imagine they will be quite entertaining.

This post doesn't consider the actual statistical comparisons of other health risks to Covid. Those make the panic over Covid look truly ridiculous.

Interesting attempt to poison the well... coming from a doctor who should be about the truth regardless of the popularity of ideas... or even the "experts" who foster those ideas. So your claim is that unless someone has "credentials" they cannot read and evaluate information... particularly statistics? You assume that someone who isn't gullible enough to continue taking the word of "experts" who have been so badly wrong and even deceptive is just a "conspiracy theorist"?

I have spent considerable time following references of things I read and verifying the credentials of those who make claims. Most of the information I've posted here refers to information from CDC and other recognized sources. You can check my posts. I found the "6%" recently thrusts into the news a while back. It isn't new. My complaint is that CDC continues to foster fear rather than releasing numbers showing the number of people who died with Covid as the primary cause, secondary cause, or incidental to the death. Obviously around 10,000 people have died OF Covid. There is a report of at least 5000 people who died by some cause where Covid was purely incidental to their death. Then there is a big, massive number in the middle where Covid had some undefined impact. We do not know if the person would have died near term otherwise or not.

I've spent considerable time checking out claims posted by friends here and elsewhere then politely letting them know that their references twist the facts or leave important things out. My interest is the TRUTH.

First. The narrative we've been hearing for months about the IFR being 3-7% was never true... and CDC understood that and did not correct the media when they reported it. In case you don't remember or else have bought into the "consensus" in contradiction to the skepticism a scientist should have... CDC's first crack at an IFR used an estimated number of actual cases 10 times greater than the confirmed cases at that time. They KNEW and yet allowed the media to push a very "scary" narrative. Why? They've alluded to why many times. Some in the media and elsewhere have openly stated that it is important to keep people scared. Not that wording but that effect.

Then you have the simple fact that mask mandates have been imposed creating social stress and strife with NO studies proving the worth of such a move. The studies pointed to are usually focused on protecting the wearer OR of use by SYMPTOMATIC patients of viruses other than Covid to prevent spread.

Let's go back to the shutdowns based on a false model suggesting 2.2 million US deaths. Fauci used that to push our leaders into the lockdowns. Political forces used that fear to maintain shutdowns even until now... with no evidence they help at all. We now know they were unnecessary. NY and other places still had very severe outbreaks. The virus has spread more or less as it would have otherwise. It breaks out in one area, runs a 6-8 week cycle, then drops off. This EXPERT called before we even did it:

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

What the shutdowns and stress created by the extreme "scare" narrative HAVE done is produce deaths of despair, deaths due to delayed/neglected treatment, and destroyed lives. But if you want to continue believing these same experts.... and comfort yourself by calling reasonable skeptics "conspiracy theorists" I guess you can. Not a very good position for a doctor committed to saving lives though. Maybe you should consider the years of life lost due to the stress of losing a business it took 3 generations to build... or the young people who have committed suicide due to social isolation... or kids whose life path has been altered when stress pushed their parents apart.... or the VERY significant increase in both murder and substance related deaths since the fear narrative took over the media coupled to the shutdowns.

If proof exists that non-symptomatic people spread the virus or to what degree... then our "experts" have very oddly withheld it. A recent NYT's article on rapid tests incidentally drew a relationship between a person's viral load, symptoms, and their level of contagiousness. Even if non-symptomatic people were 20% as likely to spread the virus then you as a doctor... who obviously knows that infections of this virus are under 20% even under intense exposure for weeks and that the best masks worn correctly are only around 60% effective when worn by symptomatic flu patients... should recognize that requiring healthy people to wear masks is ridiculous and counterproductive.


Maybe you are the guy. Maybe you can point me to two things. One, an actual medical study demonstrating to what degree non-symptomatic people spread the virus under various conditions. Two, a study showing the impact of 300 million otherwise healthy people wearing masks which can cause them harm on the spread of Covid. The risk analysis showing the costs in terms of physical and mental health from wearing masks vs quantifiable, cause/effect reduction in Covid infections would be helpful too.

Bonus: Maybe you can find a study showing outdoors transmission. The only study I've seen was quickly dropped by the media. It came from a Chinese review of contact traces and found NO evidence that outdoor transmission occurs. Of course to be conclusive we would need to know how close people were. But as a doctor speaking to someone who has a pretty good grasp on air flow and dispersion models... you should be able to agree the risk of infection outdoors in sunshine of a virus that dies in less than 2 minutes in those conditions... being diluted by outdoors air flows... is extremely low even in relatively crowded situations. You might even agree that a place with the air exchange and cubic feet of air of a Walmart provides an environment where infectious airborne concentrations of the virus are unlikely to form.

 

[sjt18]

I’m a physician. What are your credentials? And what “truths” do you have to teach us about? Love to hear your conspiracy theories, I imagine they will be quite entertaining.

PS- one of my bigger complaints about the fear narrative and the CDC's part in it is the comparison to the flu. Covid isn't the flu. But comparing to the flu IS a very legitimate way to measure the severity of the impact of Covid. But the comparison is made while the "deaths" from the two viruses are counted completely different.

CDC acknowledges they do not truly know how many people die as a direct result of the flu each year. The flu like Covid kills mostly end of life patients. The flu however does appear from the statistics to kill more young and otherwise healthy people. Apparently like Covid, the flu usually kills by directly leading to something else like pneumonia. Some states do not even report flu deaths since they generally "kill" by causing something else (see Oregon).

On the other side, you have not only Birx's directive that any death where Covid is present or suspect to be related... be called a Covid death. They have spent considerable resources and even offered financial incentive to assure that EVERY Covid positive death is counted as a Covid death.

There could be a medical justification for tracking Covid that closely. But if they do and the natural comparison to the flu begins to be made... they have an OBLIGATION to calm the public and let them know that counting methods are a big part of the difference in reported deaths. I had to dig into the CDC website on my own to find this info.


The BEST, most objective way to compare the two viruses where we have reliable counting is hospitalizations. Best I can tell Covid is on pace to result in about as many hospitalizations as a typical flu season without even considering the possibility that many of those hospitalized early on would be treated outpatient now. Covid is unlikely to exceed half the 950,000 flu hospitalizations from two years ago.

 

[OffTackleVol]

This post doesn't consider the actual statistical comparisons of other health risks to Covid. Those make the panic over Covid look truly ridiculous.

Interesting attempt to poison the well... coming from a doctor who should be about the truth regardless of the popularity of ideas... or even the "experts" who foster those ideas. So your claim is that unless someone has "credentials" they cannot read and evaluate information... particularly statistics? You assume that someone who isn't gullible enough to continue taking the word of "experts" who have been so badly wrong and even deceptive is just a "conspiracy theorist"?

I have spent considerable time following references of things I read and verifying the credentials of those who make claims. Most of the information I've posted here refers to information from CDC and other recognized sources. You can check my posts. I found the "6%" recently thrusts into the news a while back. It isn't new. My complaint is that CDC continues to foster fear rather than releasing numbers showing the number of people who died with Covid as the primary cause, secondary cause, or incidental to the death. Obviously around 10,000 people have died OF Covid. There is a report of at least 5000 people who died by some cause where Covid was purely incidental to their death. Then there is a big, massive number in the middle where Covid had some undefined impact. We do not know if the person would have died near term otherwise or not.

I've spent considerable time checking out claims posted by friends here and elsewhere then politely letting them know that their references twist the facts or leave important things out. My interest is the TRUTH.

First. The narrative we've been hearing for months about the IFR being 3-7% was never true... and CDC understood that and did not correct the media when they reported it. In case you don't remember or else have bought into the "consensus" in contradiction to the skepticism a scientist should have... CDC's first crack at an IFR used an estimated number of actual cases 10 times greater than the confirmed cases at that time. They KNEW and yet allowed the media to push a very "scary" narrative. Why? They've alluded to why many times. Some in the media and elsewhere have openly stated that it is important to keep people scared. Not that wording but that effect.

Then you have the simple fact that mask mandates have been imposed creating social stress and strife with NO studies proving the worth of such a move. The studies pointed to are usually focused on protecting the wearer OR of use by SYMPTOMATIC patients of viruses other than Covid to prevent spread.

Let's go back to the shutdowns based on a false model suggesting 2.2 million US deaths. Fauci used that to push our leaders into the lockdowns. Political forces used that fear to maintain shutdowns even until now... with no evidence they help at all. We now know they were unnecessary. NY and other places still had very severe outbreaks. The virus has spread more or less as it would have otherwise. It breaks out in one area, runs a 6-8 week cycle, then drops off. This EXPERT called before we even did it:

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

What the shutdowns and stress created by the extreme "scare" narrative HAVE done is produce deaths of despair, deaths due to delayed/neglected treatment, and destroyed lives. But if you want to continue believing these same experts.... and comfort yourself by calling reasonable skeptics "conspiracy theorists" I guess you can. Not a very good position for a doctor committed to saving lives though. Maybe you should consider the years of life lost due to the stress of losing a business it took 3 generations to build... or the young people who have committed suicide due to social isolation... or kids whose life path has been altered when stress pushed their parents apart.... or the VERY significant increase in both murder and substance related deaths since the fear narrative took over the media coupled to the shutdowns.

If proof exists that non-symptomatic people spread the virus or to what degree... then our "experts" have very oddly withheld it. A recent NYT's article on rapid tests incidentally drew a relationship between a person's viral load, symptoms, and their level of contagiousness. Even if non-symptomatic people were 20% as likely to spread the virus then you as a doctor... who obviously knows that infections of this virus are under 20% even under intense exposure for weeks and that the best masks worn correctly are only around 60% effective when worn by symptomatic flu patients... should recognize that requiring healthy people to wear masks is ridiculous and counterproductive.


Maybe you are the guy. Maybe you can point me to two things. One, an actual medical study demonstrating to what degree non-symptomatic people spread the virus under various conditions. Two, a study showing the impact of 300 million otherwise healthy people wearing masks which can cause them harm on the spread of Covid. The risk analysis showing the costs in terms of physical and mental health from wearing masks vs quantifiable, cause/effect reduction in Covid infections would be helpful too.

Bonus: Maybe you can find a study showing outdoors transmission. The only study I've seen was quickly dropped by the media. It came from a Chinese review of contact traces and found NO evidence that outdoor transmission occurs. Of course to be conclusive we would need to know how close people were. But as a doctor speaking to someone who has a pretty good grasp on air flow and dispersion models... you should be able to agree the risk of infection outdoors in sunshine of a virus that dies in less than 2 minutes in those conditions... being diluted by outdoors air flows... is extremely low even in relatively crowded situations. You might even agree that a place with the air exchange and cubic feet of air of a Walmart provides an environment where infectious airborne concentrations of the virus are unlikely to form.

Hey Doctor VolnVandy, we're waiting for your medically trained response! Picked on the wrong feller...........

 

[J C Higgins]

This post doesn't consider the actual statistical comparisons of other health risks to Covid. Those make the panic over Covid look truly ridiculous.

Interesting attempt to poison the well... coming from a doctor who should be about the truth regardless of the popularity of ideas... or even the "experts" who foster those ideas. So your claim is that unless someone has "credentials" they cannot read and evaluate information... particularly statistics? You assume that someone who isn't gullible enough to continue taking the word of "experts" who have been so badly wrong and even deceptive is just a "conspiracy theorist"?

I have spent considerable time following references of things I read and verifying the credentials of those who make claims. Most of the information I've posted here refers to information from CDC and other recognized sources. You can check my posts. I found the "6%" recently thrusts into the news a while back. It isn't new. My complaint is that CDC continues to foster fear rather than releasing numbers showing the number of people who died with Covid as the primary cause, secondary cause, or incidental to the death. Obviously around 10,000 people have died OF Covid. There is a report of at least 5000 people who died by some cause where Covid was purely incidental to their death. Then there is a big, massive number in the middle where Covid had some undefined impact. We do not know if the person would have died near term otherwise or not.

I've spent considerable time checking out claims posted by friends here and elsewhere then politely letting them know that their references twist the facts or leave important things out. My interest is the TRUTH.

First. The narrative we've been hearing for months about the IFR being 3-7% was never true... and CDC understood that and did not correct the media when they reported it. In case you don't remember or else have bought into the "consensus" in contradiction to the skepticism a scientist should have... CDC's first crack at an IFR used an estimated number of actual cases 10 times greater than the confirmed cases at that time. They KNEW and yet allowed the media to push a very "scary" narrative. Why? They've alluded to why many times. Some in the media and elsewhere have openly stated that it is important to keep people scared. Not that wording but that effect.

Then you have the simple fact that mask mandates have been imposed creating social stress and strife with NO studies proving the worth of such a move. The studies pointed to are usually focused on protecting the wearer OR of use by SYMPTOMATIC patients of viruses other than Covid to prevent spread.

Let's go back to the shutdowns based on a false model suggesting 2.2 million US deaths. Fauci used that to push our leaders into the lockdowns. Political forces used that fear to maintain shutdowns even until now... with no evidence they help at all. We now know they were unnecessary. NY and other places still had very severe outbreaks. The virus has spread more or less as it would have otherwise. It breaks out in one area, runs a 6-8 week cycle, then drops off. This EXPERT called before we even did it:

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

What the shutdowns and stress created by the extreme "scare" narrative HAVE done is produce deaths of despair, deaths due to delayed/neglected treatment, and destroyed lives. But if you want to continue believing these same experts.... and comfort yourself by calling reasonable skeptics "conspiracy theorists" I guess you can. Not a very good position for a doctor committed to saving lives though. Maybe you should consider the years of life lost due to the stress of losing a business it took 3 generations to build... or the young people who have committed suicide due to social isolation... or kids whose life path has been altered when stress pushed their parents apart.... or the VERY significant increase in both murder and substance related deaths since the fear narrative took over the media coupled to the shutdowns.

If proof exists that non-symptomatic people spread the virus or to what degree... then our "experts" have very oddly withheld it. A recent NYT's article on rapid tests incidentally drew a relationship between a person's viral load, symptoms, and their level of contagiousness. Even if non-symptomatic people were 20% as likely to spread the virus then you as a doctor... who obviously knows that infections of this virus are under 20% even under intense exposure for weeks and that the best masks worn correctly are only around 60% effective when worn by symptomatic flu patients... should recognize that requiring healthy people to wear masks is ridiculous and counterproductive.


Maybe you are the guy. Maybe you can point me to two things. One, an actual medical study demonstrating to what degree non-symptomatic people spread the virus under various conditions. Two, a study showing the impact of 300 million otherwise healthy people wearing masks which can cause them harm on the spread of Covid. The risk analysis showing the costs in terms of physical and mental health from wearing masks vs quantifiable, cause/effect reduction in Covid infections would be helpful too.

Bonus: Maybe you can find a study showing outdoors transmission. The only study I've seen was quickly dropped by the media. It came from a Chinese review of contact traces and found NO evidence that outdoor transmission occurs. Of course to be conclusive we would need to know how close people were. But as a doctor speaking to someone who has a pretty good grasp on air flow and dispersion models... you should be able to agree the risk of infection outdoors in sunshine of a virus that dies in less than 2 minutes in those conditions... being diluted by outdoors air flows... is extremely low even in relatively crowded situations. You might even agree that a place with the air exchange and cubic feet of air of a Walmart provides an environment where infectious airborne concentrations of the virus are unlikely to form.

Explanation:

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

There's a pattern with the pro corona fear mongerers.

They're always extremely condescending or speak as if they're mother Teresa.

Rarely deals in facts and just speak with a general assumption that everyone who questions the gravity of the virus is a conspiracy theorist or devoid of compassion because "people are dying"!

They can't handle the facts because they never sought them out for themselves. You think they would have if they actually cared.

They do not want to give up their virtue signaling so they have subconsciously trained their minds to reject all dissenting points of view.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Explanation:

That dude is reasonable. The data is more nuanced than what many are giving it credit for. However, It still points to the large majority of deaths being in those who have severe comorbidities or are very old. That is the point of the outrage. We know the disease is lethal for older folks and they are the source of most of the data. It still remains clear that COVID is not killing anybody in good health and rarely effects them in a harsh way.

 

[a vol n tears]

This post doesn't consider the actual statistical comparisons of other health risks to Covid. Those make the panic over Covid look truly ridiculous.

Interesting attempt to poison the well... coming from a doctor who should be about the truth regardless of the popularity of ideas... or even the "experts" who foster those ideas. So your claim is that unless someone has "credentials" they cannot read and evaluate information... particularly statistics? You assume that someone who isn't gullible enough to continue taking the word of "experts" who have been so badly wrong and even deceptive is just a "conspiracy theorist"?

I have spent considerable time following references of things I read and verifying the credentials of those who make claims. Most of the information I've posted here refers to information from CDC and other recognized sources. You can check my posts. I found the "6%" recently thrusts into the news a while back. It isn't new. My complaint is that CDC continues to foster fear rather than releasing numbers showing the number of people who died with Covid as the primary cause, secondary cause, or incidental to the death. Obviously around 10,000 people have died OF Covid. There is a report of at least 5000 people who died by some cause where Covid was purely incidental to their death. Then there is a big, massive number in the middle where Covid had some undefined impact. We do not know if the person would have died near term otherwise or not.

I've spent considerable time checking out claims posted by friends here and elsewhere then politely letting them know that their references twist the facts or leave important things out. My interest is the TRUTH.

First. The narrative we've been hearing for months about the IFR being 3-7% was never true... and CDC understood that and did not correct the media when they reported it. In case you don't remember or else have bought into the "consensus" in contradiction to the skepticism a scientist should have... CDC's first crack at an IFR used an estimated number of actual cases 10 times greater than the confirmed cases at that time. They KNEW and yet allowed the media to push a very "scary" narrative. Why? They've alluded to why many times. Some in the media and elsewhere have openly stated that it is important to keep people scared. Not that wording but that effect.

Then you have the simple fact that mask mandates have been imposed creating social stress and strife with NO studies proving the worth of such a move. The studies pointed to are usually focused on protecting the wearer OR of use by SYMPTOMATIC patients of viruses other than Covid to prevent spread.

Let's go back to the shutdowns based on a false model suggesting 2.2 million US deaths. Fauci used that to push our leaders into the lockdowns. Political forces used that fear to maintain shutdowns even until now... with no evidence they help at all. We now know they were unnecessary. NY and other places still had very severe outbreaks. The virus has spread more or less as it would have otherwise. It breaks out in one area, runs a 6-8 week cycle, then drops off. This EXPERT called before we even did it:

Israeli Professor Shows Virus Follows Fixed Pattern

What the shutdowns and stress created by the extreme "scare" narrative HAVE done is produce deaths of despair, deaths due to delayed/neglected treatment, and destroyed lives. But if you want to continue believing these same experts.... and comfort yourself by calling reasonable skeptics "conspiracy theorists" I guess you can. Not a very good position for a doctor committed to saving lives though. Maybe you should consider the years of life lost due to the stress of losing a business it took 3 generations to build... or the young people who have committed suicide due to social isolation... or kids whose life path has been altered when stress pushed their parents apart.... or the VERY significant increase in both murder and substance related deaths since the fear narrative took over the media coupled to the shutdowns.

If proof exists that non-symptomatic people spread the virus or to what degree... then our "experts" have very oddly withheld it. A recent NYT's article on rapid tests incidentally drew a relationship between a person's viral load, symptoms, and their level of contagiousness. Even if non-symptomatic people were 20% as likely to spread the virus then you as a doctor... who obviously knows that infections of this virus are under 20% even under intense exposure for weeks and that the best masks worn correctly are only around 60% effective when worn by symptomatic flu patients... should recognize that requiring healthy people to wear masks is ridiculous and counterproductive.


Maybe you are the guy. Maybe you can point me to two things. One, an actual medical study demonstrating to what degree non-symptomatic people spread the virus under various conditions. Two, a study showing the impact of 300 million otherwise healthy people wearing masks which can cause them harm on the spread of Covid. The risk analysis showing the costs in terms of physical and mental health from wearing masks vs quantifiable, cause/effect reduction in Covid infections would be helpful too.

Bonus: Maybe you can find a study showing outdoors transmission. The only study I've seen was quickly dropped by the media. It came from a Chinese review of contact traces and found NO evidence that outdoor transmission occurs. Of course to be conclusive we would need to know how close people were. But as a doctor speaking to someone who has a pretty good grasp on air flow and dispersion models... you should be able to agree the risk of infection outdoors in sunshine of a virus that dies in less than 2 minutes in those conditions... being diluted by outdoors air flows... is extremely low even in relatively crowded situations. You might even agree that a place with the air exchange and cubic feet of air of a Walmart provides an environment where infectious airborne concentrations of the virus are unlikely to form.

Thanks for sharing what most will not take the time to look up. Information is out there but MSM will not talk about data. They speak in terms to keep defined narratives moving. I did not want to type a long reply to volIn vandyland so appreciate your response. Little by little facts are coming out, but no on TV.
just yesterday local news stated cases in my area were double counted. They were counted in the county the person lived, then also counted in the county the person went to the Dr or hospital.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

That dude is reasonable. The data is more nuanced than what many are giving it credit for. However, It still points to the large majority of deaths being in those who have severe comorbidities or are very old. That is the point of the outrage. We know the disease is lethal for older folks and they are the source of most of the data. It still remains clear that COVID is not killing anybody in good health and rarely effects them in a harsh way.

Yes.

But that's the weird thing about this reaction by some to the CDC report on co-morbidities.

All it really comes down to is what you just said: that it mostly affects old people, and people with other health issues.

The thing is, that's not news.

We knew it hit older folks hardest way back in March. Over the month of March and into April, it became obvious that the disease affects worst those who have pre-existing conditions.

We knew both those things all through May. All through June. All through July. All through August.

So for some here to jump up and say, "AH-HA! The CDC was hiding this from us!" in early September is really silly.

Either that, or they totally misunderstood what they were reading.

 

[J C Higgins]

That dude is reasonable. The data is more nuanced than what many are giving it credit for. However, It still points to the large majority of deaths being in those who have severe comorbidities or are very old. That is the point of the outrage. We know the disease is lethal for older folks and they are the source of most of the data. It still remains clear that COVID is not killing anybody in good health and rarely effects them in a harsh way.

I would modify your statement a bit.
Yes, it kills more elderly (like me...79 yo) and those with co-morbidities but it does kill some people that were in otherwise good health.

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

I would modify your statement a bit.
Yes, it kills more elderly (like me...79 yo) and those with co-morbidities but it does kill some people that were in otherwise good health.

Hard to find much info about those very few that are in otherwise good health.

 

[SpookyAction]

I’m a physician. What are your credentials? And what “truths” do you have to teach us about? Love to hear your conspiracy theories, I imagine they will be quite entertaining.

Don't bother. It is only entertaining until you realize they believe their dumb crap to the death.
I would rather be on a Vandy forum these days where they know jack about football but don't argue against science that has been established since the 50s.

 

[tnutater]

Well yeah, but the agent isn’t the reason he’s going to the league.

Correct, that is all talent and hard work.

 

[sjt18]

Yes.

But that's the weird thing about this reaction by some to the CDC report on co-morbidities.

All it really comes down to is what you just said: that it mostly affects old people, and people with other health issues.

The thing is, that's not news.

We knew it hit older folks hardest way back in March. Over the month of March and into April, it became obvious that the disease affects worst those who have pre-existing conditions.

We knew both those things all through May. All through June. All through July. All through August.

So for some here to jump up and say, "AH-HA! The CDC was hiding this from us!" in early September is really silly.

Either that, or they totally misunderstood what they were reading.

Except that the fear narrative has millions of people wearing masks on the remote chance they're infected without symptoms AND are able to spread the virus. It has teachers not wanting to go to work in spite of the low rates of infection and severe symptoms shown in school children and the age groups that make up almost all teachers.

People have followed "plans" that were not targeted or reasonable for the specific purpose of protecting the old and vulnerable.

The "science" shows a virus that makes a very, very small percentage sick and even fewer among the young and healthy. Yet we have cancellation of college football and players "opting out" for fear of the virus.

I think we all know the virus can be serious. We know that early lack of knowledge and incorrect responses led to a lot of unnecessary deaths. But we need REAL LEADERS from the medical community and media now to report objectively and calm people down. Since May, the virus is tracking around a 1% IFR even using the inflated death counts... and without considering the massive numbers of unconfirmed cases. Using even the factor of 10 that CDC seemed to accept a few weeks back... the current IFR is really close to "flu" level.

The CDC has NOT been forthcoming and still aren't. They have NOT been careful to correct false media narratives and should have been. They have certainly done NOTHING to calm public fears and stress... even knowing the impact on public health.

 

[landscapingvol]

That dude is reasonable. The data is more nuanced than what many are giving it credit for. However, It still points to the large majority of deaths being in those who have severe comorbidities or are very old. That is the point of the outrage. We know the disease is lethal for older folks and they are the source of most of the data. It still remains clear that COVID is not killing anybody in good health and rarely effects them in a harsh way.

Of course the elderly, immune compromised, and obese are more vulnerable that is generally how viruses/diseases work. To suggest that precautions shouldn’t be made simply because it isn’t killing perfectly healthy people like nearly every virus/disease known to mankind is silly. If anyone is suggesting that it is life threatening to the vast majority of young, healthy people then they are being dishonest but it may be life threatening to someone they live with or are frequently around and that is the issue when certain precautions aren’t taken.

 

[landscapingvol]

Except that the fear narrative has millions of people wearing masks on the remote chance they're infected without symptoms AND are able to spread the virus. It has teachers not wanting to go to work in spite of the low rates of infection and severe symptoms shown in school children and the age groups that make up almost all teachers.

People have followed "plans" that were not targeted or reasonable for the specific purpose of protecting the old and vulnerable.

The "science" shows a virus that makes a very, very small percentage sick and even fewer among the young and healthy. Yet we have cancellation of college football and players "opting out" for fear of the virus.

I think we all know the virus can be serious. We know that early lack of knowledge and incorrect responses led to a lot of unnecessary deaths. But we need REAL LEADERS from the medical community and media now to report objectively and calm people down. Since May, the virus is tracking around a 1% IFR even using the inflated death counts... and without considering the massive numbers of unconfirmed cases. Using even the factor of 10 that CDC seemed to accept a few weeks back... the current IFR is really close to "flu" level.

The CDC has NOT been forthcoming and still aren't. They have NOT been careful to correct false media narratives and should have been. They have certainly done NOTHING to calm public fears and stress... even knowing the impact on public health.

Low rates of infection in schools simply isn’t true, I have been back to work with students for three weeks and nearly 1k students and teachers are in quarantine in a school system of fewer than 10k students, several entire sports teams are in quarantine and that’s with 30% of the students online. School systems may choose to release their Covid data but they certainly don’t have to and most school aged children aren’t getting tested

 

[BP4Prez]

Have these two been practicing?

 

[mitzustu]

Would be a weird change of course for Middleton. He was ready to go....

 

[TNnative]

On that subject, I saw on the Channel 3 11:00 PM in Chattanooga last night that the CDC has sent notifications to all 50 states informing them that a vaccine may be available as soon as late October. The news was that there will be several different vaccines that will be available. What say you VolNation?

It would go faster if they used less placebo.

 

[sjt18]

Low rates of infection in schools simply isn’t true, I have been back to work with students for three weeks and nearly 1k students and teachers are in quarantine in a school system of fewer than 10k students, several entire sports teams are in quarantine and that’s with 30% of the students online. School systems may choose to release their Covid data but they certainly don’t have to and most school aged children aren’t getting tested

And that's lunacy unless they're exhibiting symptoms. I'm guessing you haven't seen this article. Testing should be objective... but this demonstrates that there is a large degree of subjectivity with the Covid-19 test and that it is skewed so badly that large numbers of people who are already recovered are testing positive.

Your Coronavirus Test Is Positive. Maybe It Shouldn’t Be.

 

[KBVol]

Can’t blame the kids this season is not going to be a normal season and alot of people won’t consider it a legit season and it really isn’t when you have four conferences not playing.

I blame the kids for not being educated about their near zero risk from the virus. They’re more likely to die of playing football than they are to die of coronavirus. They’re more likely to die driving to and from campus than they are from coronavirus. I blame them for not educating themselves and I blame the administration and coaches even more.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Great respect for your dedication for your profession, however just saying you are a physician does not mean you know all. I recently had the unfortunate chance of going to see 2 different Dr, in the same town, within 2 hours of each other. Asked both what their opinions of Covid were, and got 2 completely different opinions. Both agree it is real but differ on the severity and if it is a pandemic. Also the Dr who thought it was severe, knew a family who had lost a loved one. However he was in his 80’s and had several other issues.

Often Physicians in different fields are more up to date on different subjects. I would expect a Pediatrician or an Immunologist to be much more up to date about Covid than an Orthopedist or a Dermatologist. In addition, last week the team Doctor for Penn State, reported that in the Big Ten, 35% of their football players who had tested positive for Covid suffered from Myocarditis, inflammation of the heart. This can result in a 5-10 % loss in heart function which is likely permanent.

 

[kcvols1]

Except that the fear narrative has millions of people wearing masks on the remote chance they're infected without symptoms AND are able to spread the virus. It has teachers not wanting to go to work in spite of the low rates of infection and severe symptoms shown in school children and the age groups that make up almost all teachers.

People have followed "plans" that were not targeted or reasonable for the specific purpose of protecting the old and vulnerable.

The "science" shows a virus that makes a very, very small percentage sick and even fewer among the young and healthy. Yet we have cancellation of college football and players "opting out" for fear of the virus.

I think we all know the virus can be serious. We know that early lack of knowledge and incorrect responses led to a lot of unnecessary deaths. But we need REAL LEADERS from the medical community and media now to report objectively and calm people down. Since May, the virus is tracking around a 1% IFR even using the inflated death counts... and without considering the massive numbers of unconfirmed cases. Using even the factor of 10 that CDC seemed to accept a few weeks back... the current IFR is really close to "flu" level.

The CDC has NOT been forthcoming and still aren't. They have NOT been careful to correct false media narratives and should have been. They have certainly done NOTHING to calm public fears and stress... even knowing the impact on public health.

If only there were effective leadership to filter out all this noise and chart a stable path forward. Not sure reigning in the media is within the expertise of the CDC. Those are biotech folks, not communications experts.

I’m not sure this inconsistency is out of character for the CDC, or the scientific community at large for that matter, when dealing with new problems. It sure seems like the messaging in past administrations in similar scenarios was more effectively managed; be that under Bush or Obama.

In any event, it seems this thread will shortly be doomed to the politics forum. Thanks for managing us, Freak!

 

[JacketVol]

Often Physicians in different fields are more up to date on different subjects. I would expect a Pediatrician or an Immunologist to be much more up to date about Covid than an Orthopedist or a Dermatologist. In addition, last week the team Doctor for Penn State, reported that in the Big Ten, 35% of their football players who had tested positive for Covid suffered from Myocarditis, inflammation of the heart. This can result in a 5-10 % loss in heart function which is likely permanent.

Then he clarified it and said it is not as bad as the Big 10 ran with it as.