Swain hints at opt-outs

[VFL-82-JP]

Often Physicians in different fields are more up to date on different subjects. I would expect a Pediatrician or an Immunologist to be much more up to date about Covid than an Orthopedist or a Dermatologist. In addition, last week the team Doctor for Penn State, reported that in the Big Ten, 35% of their football players who had tested positive for Covid suffered from Myocarditis, inflammation of the heart. This can result in a 5-10 % loss in heart function which is likely permanent.

Turns out that Penn State doctor talked a little bit out of school (first off, he wasnt talking about his own Penn State players, at all), AND on top of that was misquoted and misunderstood.

Here are multiple sources in case you (wisely, these days) tend not to trust just one in isolation. The first one is from Penn State iteself:

https://www.collegian.psu.edu/football/article_3899a93e-ee2f-11ea-8a0e-4b24163f6ac2.html
Read the jaw-dropping myocarditis report Thursday morning? Turned out it's incorrect
Penn State doctor walks back claim about Big Ten athletes with coronavirus, heart issue (UPDATE)

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Turns out that Penn State doctor talked a little bit out of school (first off, he wasnt talking about his own Penn State players, at all), AND on top of that was misquoted and misunderstood.

Here are multiple sources in case you (wisely, these days) tend not to trust just one in isolation. The first one is from Penn State iteself:

https://www.collegian.psu.edu/football/article_3899a93e-ee2f-11ea-8a0e-4b24163f6ac2.html
Read the jaw-dropping myocarditis report Thursday morning? Turned out it's incorrect
Penn State doctor walks back claim about Big Ten athletes with coronavirus, heart issue (UPDATE)

My post did not say the cases were in Penn State players. He said it was in Big Ten players who had tested positive for Covid-19. I have not seen any dada which changes those figures. Maybe there are other reports that change those numbers, so please post them if you have them. Thanks

 

[VFL-82-JP]

My post did not say the cases were in Penn State players. He said it was in Big Ten players who had tested positive for Covid-19. I have not seen any dada which changes those figures. Maybe there are other reports that change those numbers, so please post them if you have them. Thanks

Read the articles I linked. They provide the information you're asking me to post, heh.

Wasn't you who said they were Penn State players. It was some of the journalists who first picked up his story and ran with it. It got so badly misunderstood that the Penn State administration had to issue a correction noting explicitly that no Penn State players have myocarditis.

First source of error: the Penn State doctor himself. See, he was talking to a local school board, who invited him in to provide information as they were considering what the high schools and middle schools in the district ought to do about sport. When he met with them, he had recently talked to a colleague who was working on a study about coronavirus and myocarditis. An early version of that study apparently indicated a possible heart malady rate of 30-35% among some sample population that had had covid-19. So this is what this Penn State doctor passed on. Even though it wasn't his study, it wasn't even Penn State's study, and he wasn't in any way involved in it. And it was preliminary, still being worked on. Oops.

Because it turned out, the finished study actually found a rate closer to 10%-15%. And it's not even that bad, because the findings were apparently more nuanced than the Penn State doctor shared. Nuanced how? Heck if I know, we're approaching the limit of my ability to understand the medical science. Heh. Just know that even that would apparently be misleading to say.

But anyway, that doctor gave the wrong numbers, much higher than the study actually found, and he over-simplified the findings (probably so it would be understandable to the school board members...though since they were making decisions based on it, he really should have been more accurate).

And THEN the media got hold of it and took it in some weird directions. Like some of them saying they were Penn State players who had myocarditis (Because why would that doctor be talking about anything but his own charges, right? Right?). Others saying roughly a third of all B10 players who'd been exposed to coronavirus had inflamed hearts. And so on.

Anyway, it was a mess. Which is why the story fizzled right after splashing onto the scene.

That's the long version, actually. You could have learned all this faster reading those articles.

 

[VOLINVONORE]

Read the articles I linked. They provide the information you're asking me to post, heh.

Never said it was you who said they were Penn State players. It was some of the journalists who first picked up his story and ran with it. It got so badly misunderstood that the Penn State administration had to issue a correction noting explicitly that no Penn State players have myocarditis.

First source of error: the Penn State doctor himself. See, he was talking to a local school board, who invited him in to provide information as they were considering what the high schools and middle schools in the district ought to do about sport. When he met with them, he had recently talked to a colleague who was working on a study about coronavirus and myocarditis. An early version of that study apparently indicated a possible heart malady rate of 30-35%. So this is what this Penn State doctor passed on. Even though it wasn't his study, and he wasn't in any way involved in it. And it was preliminary, still being worked on. Oops.

Because it turned out, the finished study actually found a rate closer to 10%-15%. And it's not even that bad, because the findings were more nuanced than the Penn State doctor shared. You can't even say 15% of coronavirus cases developed myocarditis. Why not? Heck if I know, we're approaching the limit of my ability to understand the medical science. Heh. Just know that even that would be misleading to say.

But anyway, that doctor gave the wrong numbers, much higher than the study actually found, and he over-simplified the findings (probably so it would be understandable to the school board members...though since they were making decisions based on it, he really should have been more accurate).

And THEN the media got hold of it and took it in some weird directions. Like some of them saying they were Penn State players who had myocarditis (Because why would that doctor be talking about anything but his own charges, right? Right?).

Anyway, it was a mess. Which is why the story fizzled right after splashing onto the scene.

That's the long version, actually. You could have learned all this faster reading those articles.

Thanks

 

[PlanetVolunteer]

Is there any rumblings of our coaching staff and Fulmer attempting to get rid of these absurd contact tracing rules?

 

[YankeeVol]

Middleton and Solomon are seniors.
Agents are in their ears.
Money talks.

UDFA's don't make much usually

 

[OrangeVolMan]

Let's talk about specific points of mismanagement. Name them so we can discuss them.

I'll actually start. Trump should have ignored Fauci from the start or at least brought in credible dissenting experts. If there is one person who is MOST responsible for how badly this has been managed it is Fauci. He gave credence to a Covid model that was NEVER realistic but led to the universal shutdowns. He jumped the gun and declared it a "novel virus" when there was already strong evidence that MANY people had some level of immunity due to exposure to other Coronaviruses. Eventually Trump stopped meeting with him or listening to him. He actually should have fired him publicly and stated why.

But Fauci was the media darling. He said the "scary things" that they could twist into a narrative to support their causes and candidates.

The answer is "yes" to a significant extent. They outmaneuvered Trump and trapped him. He could not pursue a calm, level-headed approach that let the actual SCIENCE lead. I don't know that he would have... but it wasn't an option since the media attacked any suggestion that this wasn't the scariest, deadliest virus in history.

Here's an example. Trump announced Dr Atlas as a replacement for Fauci. The media went completely nuts and put the guy on the defensive immediately. Why? Because he dared to question masks and the other non-sense being currently promoted as the "solution". He apparently criticized the shutdowns too... which were grossly ineffective if our "numbers" are true. So the media essentially goaded and boxed Trump in... then condemns him for implementing the program THEY tied him to.

Yes. The media makes reasonable skepticism "heresy" and political poison. HCQ may or may not help treat Covid. There is evidence that it does from other countries. But how did the media react when Trump suggested it be used? They found "experts" who opposed it and bullied him into shutting up. There were NO scientific studies on even a limited scale indicating that widespread shutdowns and stay at home orders would work. Sweden has been mocked and hated... but their strategy appears to have worked except for their acknowledged failure to keep the elderly safe until herd immunity was reached. But they don't turn that criticism on countries that did shutdowns... that failed. In a year or perhaps two, Sweden will likely have very good numbers when compared to others.

There is some classic irrational liberalism involved here that first panics with "DO SOMETHING!"... that makes reasonable, measured responses impossible.

I cannot give you the reasons... but FNC's "straight news" has been among the worst for pushing the irrational panic. They could have demanded that CDC break down the "death" counts into those who died from Covid as the primary cause, secondary cause, or incidental to death. Instead... they rolled with the CDC's badly inflated body counts.

OK. Again, what specifically are you talking about and what do you think they could have proposed and gotten away with otherwise?

What if Trump simply told the truth about masks? What if he forced CDC to revise the death counts and use methods comparable to flu death counts or even those apparently being used in other countries (where it is only counted as a Covid death if Covid is a significant contributing factor)? What if he had overruled CDC and FDA demanding that rapid tests be approved, produced, and distributed?

What winning move do you think he could have made that the media including FNC would not have crucified him over?

Please just stop. Every thread that Covid can possibly be discussed in, it is. It makes the board unreadable. I wish the monitors would just start deleting these posts. Not picking on either side, it just makes reading the site unbearable. I keep coming back to get football info and it’s all Covid discussion. PLEASE STOP.

 

[sjt18]

Please just stop. Every thread that Covid can possibly be discussed in, it is. It makes the board unreadable. I wish the monitors would just start deleting these posts. Not picking on either side, it just makes reading the site unbearable. I keep coming back to get football info and it’s all Covid discussion. PLEASE STOP.

So... I RESPOND to someone else and you think I'm the cause?

I actually do not care where it is discussed. I haven't been starting those rabbit trails though. It is unfortunately relevant to many conversations... and particularly one about players opting out due to this jacked up overreaction to a relatively low impact virus that mostly hurts the elderly... which none of these players are.

 

[OrangeVolMan]

So... I RESPOND to someone else and you think I'm the cause?

I actually do not care where it is discussed. I haven't been starting those rabbit trails though. It is unfortunately relevant to many conversations... and particularly one about players opting out due to this jacked up overreaction to a relatively low impact virus that mostly hurts the elderly... which none of these players are.

You were just the last COVID post when I started my reply. It was directed at everyone. I don’t really understand what anyone thinks they are accomplishing in these comments. You are not going to change anyone’s mind. For example, this is a thread about who might opt out. The posts here on COVID are not changing a players mind and do not provide any info that is not in 20 other posts. Most people come here to see if anyone has posted info on players opting out and we have to scroll through pages of COVID info to try and see if there is more info on the subject of the thread.

 

[VFL-82-JP]

...this is a thread about who might opt out....

Speaking of which, Swain hinted at that last Thursday. It's been almost a week. Guess Swain just heard wrong?

 

[Volarious]

What happens with viral load shedding from the vaccine? no one is thinking about this yet but once you vaccinate, those people are actually a danger to those who are not vaccinated for several days at least. They will say there is nothing to this but then "they" dont have a lot of credibility left on anything COVID related, especially where there is a rushed vaccine which we will know almost nothing about.

It’s not going to be a live vaccine. Not enough time to study that. Hence no shedding.

 

[tnutater]

Speaking of which, Swain hinted at that last Thursday. It's been almost a week. Guess Swain just heard wrong?

Renegotiated their contracts.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

Speaking of which, Swain hinted at that last Thursday. It's been almost a week. Guess Swain just heard wrong?

New girls on campus?

 

[tnutater]

New girls on campus?

Fresh meat and mo money, what's not to like

 

[chef3531]

Jamain Stephen's

I don't know their driving history either... but I would find it silly if they said they will never drive or ride in a car again even after considering their chances of dying in an auto accident are many times that of dying or even being hospitalized with Covid.

But do pray tell... what kinds of chronic health issues are dozens or even hundreds of athletes fit enough to play college football stricken with?

Do you know ANYTHING about the truths slowly leaking out concerning Covid? It RARELY has a severe impact on anyone under 30 and then almost always people who have seriously compromised health.

Anyone "afraid" of this virus in that age group who has EVER played without considering the dangers of the flu... has been manipulated by false propaganda.

Jamain Stephens would probably tell you to pound sand at this very moment. Especially considering his 21 year old son playing Div 3 football just died from Covid. Carry on.

 

[sjt18]

Jamain Stephen's


Jamain Stephens would probably tell you to pound sand at this very moment. Especially considering his 21 year old son playing Div 3 football just died from Covid. Carry on.

Except there are questions about how much Covid impacted his death.

And as long as we are generalizing exceptions... every year an amateur football player will die of an previously unknown heart condition. You will have isolated deaths even among the young and healthy from viruses. Occasionally someone will die from a head injury or internal bleeding. Are those rare, remote occurrences reason to cancel football?

Those deaths make the local news... and go no further.

I'm not diminishing this young man's death or its impact on his family. But we live with risks every day. Sadly we all lose people we love and sometimes when they're young. But we do not emphasize or build "rules" for living around rare exceptions or things with relatively low risks.

According to your "logic"... we should cancel football since players die in car crashes, right? Here are six examples in just this past year.... that you probably never knew happened because these are "normal" deaths and not hyped by the media. There are many more. As tragic as the death of any young person is... someone his age is FAR more likely to die in a car crash than from Covid or any other virus... or all viruses combined.

Wagner football mourning death of LB Nashawn Brooks
Buckhorn High School football player killed in car crash
Union Athletics mourns football player killed in car accident
Promising HS football star Tristan Sanders killed in Hwy 6 crash that ripped BMW in half
Otterbein University mourns student, football player killed in Friday crash | NBC4 WCMH-TV
https://greensboro.com/sports/colle...cle_c3baaf3e-d64f-11e9-9c33-4b8217974a79.html

 

[VFL-82-JP]

Jamain Stephens would probably tell you to pound sand at this very moment. Especially considering his 21 year old son playing Div 3 football just died from Covid. Carry on.

Jamain's son didn't necessarily die of Covid, or even of complications from Covid. His old high school initially put that out on social media, but then retracted it after they found out it was wrong. As of right now, his cause of death has not been published by any reputable source.

And he hasn't put on a football uniform since March. His school cancelled sports back then, and hasn't started it up again since.

So he's a football player, yes, but he hasn't been playing football in a while. Your response made it sound like you think he's playing this fall.

So...probably wrong on both counts. But we may hear more about cause of death one day, unless the family wants to keep it private. Either way, and however he died, heart goes out to them.

College football player Jamain Stephens COVID cause of death clarified

 

[BP4Prez]

Any update on this front?

 

[PulaskiVolFan]

Any update on this front?

Looks like it was either a bogus claim by someone or Pruitt is proving again that he's good at keeping stuff like that private.

 

[chef3531]

Except there are questions about how much Covid impacted his death.

And as long as we are generalizing exceptions... every year an amateur football player will die of an previously unknown heart condition. You will have isolated deaths even among the young and healthy from viruses. Occasionally someone will die from a head injury or internal bleeding. Are those rare, remote occurrences reason to cancel football?

Those deaths make the local news... and go no further.

I'm not diminishing this young man's death or its impact on his family. But we live with risks every day. Sadly we all lose people we love and sometimes when they're young. But we do not emphasize or build "rules" for living around rare exceptions or things with relatively low risks.

According to your "logic"... we should cancel football since players die in car crashes, right? Here are six examples in just this past year.... that you probably never knew happened because these are "normal" deaths and not hyped by the media. There are many more. As tragic as the death of any young person is... someone his age is FAR more likely to die in a car crash than from Covid or any other virus... or all viruses combined.

Wagner football mourning death of LB Nashawn Brooks
Buckhorn High School football player killed in car crash
Union Athletics mourns football player killed in car accident
Promising HS football star Tristan Sanders killed in Hwy 6 crash that ripped BMW in half
Otterbein University mourns student, football player killed in Friday crash | NBC4 WCMH-TV
https://greensboro.com/sports/colle...cle_c3baaf3e-d64f-11e9-9c33-4b8217974a79.html

According to your "logic" all college athletes are immune to Covid. You harp that nonsense repeatedly. I brought up one case study. That's it. It's not my logic there o wise one. We can pull newspaper articles for everything from car accidents, anaphylactic shock, drownings, suicides, electrocutions, aneurysms etc etc. I could care less about covid, or your opinion.

 

[volcity]

Both may have NFL measurables.
They may be tired of playing school.
They may not wish to risk injury.
They may want the agent's money now.
Train for the combine while getting paid.

Then they should have opted for the draft after last season

 

[sjt18]

According to your "logic" all college athletes are immune to Covid.

Nope. Never said anything like that. But if you educate yourself with the available information from reputable sources including CDC et al... and do not just listen to the media hype... you know that this is a VERY low impact virus for young people. Yes. They get infected. Some even get symptoms roughly equivalent to a cold or the flu. However MOST have very mild symptoms or none at all. A large number of those identified because they are testing and contact tracing... would have never known they were infected.

You harp that nonsense repeatedly. I brought up one case study. That's it. It's not my logic there o wise one. We can pull newspaper articles for everything from car accidents, anaphylactic shock, drownings, suicides, electrocutions, aneurysms etc etc. I could care less about covid, or your opinion.

Well... no. If you've paid attention to my posts I've brought up a great deal more than that. And the burden of proof is not on me. It is those asserting something and proposing a course of action. What you are saying I should do is disprove a negative.

I'll gladly lay out what I've done to protect myself and the employees I'm responsible for. To date, none of us has been infected to our knowledge. I take the virus serious but am not panicking because of it. I am informing myself particularly about how this virus is most likely to spread... and focusing solutions on THOSE points. As a result, my folks DO consider the amount of time they spend in "close contact" with others. They are protected by highly effective air purification systems that cost roughly $100/ton of HVAC when distancing is not possible. We don't have universal masks. Masks are to be worn when close contact is necessary in an unfiltered space where viral load is likely to accumulate. Undoubtedly, our team will be touched by the virus at some point through a contact outside of work... but we've had above average success because we actually THINK about what we're doing to combat the virus rather than follow the fear narrative blindly.

 

[BP4Prez]

Starting to think there could be something to this, as there has been no mention of either guy in Pruitt’s comments on the d-line.