Marc Curles

[rjd970]

Simple. Different crews, different perspectives. Just like judgement calls in baseball. Just because one judged it to be, doesn't mean the other should or shouldn't have.

You don’t find it amazing that a singular team seems to be on the benefitting end? How can you not see this is not just a different judgement call, this is egregiously one sided?

Why was the PF called in one and not the other? And this is not some missed call, this is out in the open. You have to want to make that call on Taylor. You have to literally want it.

Not acknowledging that makes the rest or your defenses look silly.

 

[BigOrangeMojo]

Ok @whobethis16 - I want your opinion on this

Steve Shaw, Bama grad and fan, was the long time SEC director of officials. Do you think it was a conflict of interest that he could assign and evaluate the performance of the refs that officiated Bama football games?

 

[Nugget]

Who?

 

[whobethis16]

You don’t find it amazing that a singular team seems to be on the benefitting end? How can you not see this is not just a different judgement call, this is egregiously one sided?

Why was the PF called in one and not the other? And this is not some missed call, this is out in the open. You have to want to make that call on Taylor. You have to literally want it.

Not acknowledging that makes the rest or your defenses look silly.

I find it more amazing that people who have never read and studied the actual rulebook, never attended officials' camps and training, taken the exams, or even officiated a level higher than peewee think they truly know the rules.

Regarding one, a brief 3 sec video does not tell the full story. Was there already some chippiness in the game? Had the teams already had an on-field confrontation where there is a short leash for anything? There's so much that goes into it, and if you had ever gone through any of the things I listed above, you would have a better understanding.

Yes, looking at those 3 sec videos, my judgement says the calls should've been flipped. But here's the thing: I'm not the one officiating that game. Neither are you. This is like the infield fly from the Cardinals-Braves game several years ago. The MLB Umpire Supervisor even said "I would not have made that call, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that one of the 6 on the field made the call, and they were within the rule to do so."

 

[whobethis16]

Ok @whobethis16 - I want your opinion on this

Steve Shaw, Bama grad and fan, was the long time SEC director of officials. Do you think it was a conflict of interest that he could assign and evaluate the performance of the refs that officiated Bama football games?

No more than you would think other fanbases are blowing things out of proportion if it was a Tennessee grad.

 

[sjt18]

Honestly... do you guys truly think it is an isolated crew?

As for accountability, I get what they're doing in a way. When I have to discipline people at work, I do not talk to others much less people outside of work about the individual or the specifics of their problems. How would you all feel if your boss counselled you for a mistake or poor performance then did an interview with the local paper telling them about it?

Yes. I realize that their "performance" is very public... I'm just not as sure as some that publicly discussing poor performers by name is a good idea.

HOWEVER, coaches and AD's most definitely should get that information.

 

[sjt18]

I find it more amazing that people who have never read and studied the actual rulebook, never attended officials' camps and training, taken the exams, or even officiated a level higher than peewee think they truly know the rules.

Regarding one, a brief 3 sec video does not tell the full story. Was there already some chippiness in the game? Had the teams already had an on-field confrontation where there is a short leash for anything? There's so much that goes into it, and if you had ever gone through any of the things I listed above, you would have a better understanding.

Yes, looking at those 3 sec videos, my judgement says the calls should've been flipped. But here's the thing: I'm not the one officiating that game. Neither are you. This is like the infield fly from the Cardinals-Braves game several years ago. The MLB Umpire Supervisor even said "I would not have made that call, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that one of the 6 on the field made the call, and they were within the rule to do so."

Sorry but no. There is absolutely, positively NO WAY that call should have been made against UT. Nada. That's not officiating... that's participating.

 

[whobethis16]

Sorry but no. There is absolutely, positively NO WAY that call should have been made against UT. Nada. That's not officiating... that's participating.

Maybe so, but again, a 3 sec video says absolutely nothing.

 

[rjd970]

I find it more amazing that people who have never read and studied the actual rulebook, never attended officials' camps and training, taken the exams, or even officiated a level higher than peewee think they truly know the rules.

Regarding one, a brief 3 sec video does not tell the full story. Was there already some chippiness in the game? Had the teams already had an on-field confrontation where there is a short leash for anything? There's so much that goes into it, and if you had ever gone through any of the things I listed above, you would have a better understanding.

Yes, looking at those 3 sec videos, my judgement says the calls should've been flipped. But here's the thing: I'm not the one officiating that game. Neither are you. This is like the infield fly from the Cardinals-Braves game several years ago. The MLB Umpire Supervisor even said "I would not have made that call, but that doesn't matter. All that matters is that one of the 6 on the field made the call, and they were within the rule to do so."

If you think somebody has to go through training and take exams and officiate games to opine on that judgement call then you are just bloviating and you have already lost your position in this argument. That was literally right there, in the open, and even the announcers who have not gone through the process you described like it is becoming some brain surgeon preparation said it stunk.

I’m an engineer, I know more about it than somebody who isn’t. But when the bridge falls down that I designed, even Cletus the town idiot can say it was designed wrong. GTFO with your high and mighty expertise.

I don’t claim that I can be an official, but I can see when something is blaringly wrong, and being an apologist for it because “I’ve been through the training” is the lowest common denominator for defending this type of BS.

Those two visuals I posted is Exhibit A with what’s wrong in officiating. Nobody would complain about a missed call here and there. However what’s happening here is clear bias towards the top teams, whether intentional or not.

 

[sjt18]

Maybe so, but again, a 3 sec video says absolutely nothing.

I remember the original plays... in context. There was another Bama player who did worse in the VERY SAME GAME who didn't get called.

Basketball is worse but it doesn't take much bias regardless of the source, cause, or awareness of the official to change the direction of a game.

 

[rjd970]

Maybe so, but again, a 3 sec video says absolutely nothing.

There is literally no maybe about it. The official WANTED to throw that flag. Period. I can’t for the life of me fathom how that is interpreted any other way.

 

[whobethis16]

If you think somebody has to go through training and take exams and officiate games to opine on that judgement call then you are just bloviating and you have already lost your position in this argument. That was literally right there, in the open, and even the announcers who have not gone through the process you described like it is becoming some brain surgeon preparation said it stunk.

I’m an engineer, I know more about it than somebody who isn’t. But when the bridge falls down that I designed, even Cletus the town idiot can say it was designed wrong. GTFO with your high and mighty expertise.

I don’t claim that I can be an official, but I can see when something is blaringly wrong, and being an apologist for it because “I’ve been through the training” is the lowest common denominator for defending this type of BS.

Those two visuals I posted is Exhibit A with what’s wrong in officiating. Nobody would complain about a missed call here and there. However what’s happening here is clear bias towards the top teams, whether intentional or not.

You mean the same type of announcers that claim that the hands are part of the bat in baseball? Forgive me for not taking the announcers word as Gospel when they don't know the rules.

 

[rjd970]

You mean the same type of announcers that claim that the hands are part of the bat in baseball? Forgive me for not taking the announcers word as Gospel when they don't know the rules.

Who’s taking announcers word as gospel? I’m pointing out that everybody (well, it appears almost, anyway) sees that something is wrong.

 

[bamawriter]

Can one of the officiating apologists explain this one to me? This goes past a missed call or simple inconsistency. This is looking out for a particular team, for whatever reason.

I still can't figure out if your argument is that the pro-Bama conspiracy also includes other conference refs. You compare these two plays quite often as if it proves bias on the part of SEC officials, but you aren't actually comparing SEC crews. It's such a weird example to use.

 

[whobethis16]

SEC Officiating

Just for you all that think there's no evaluations or the officials don't get asked about the job they did.

 

[rjd970]

I still can't figure out if your argument is that the pro-Bama conspiracy also includes other conference refs. You compare these two plays quite often as if it proves bias on the part of SEC officials, but you aren't actually comparing SEC crews. It's such a weird example to use.

We’ve been through this. You have to want to throw that flag. There is a clear example of worse instances being overlooked.

It happens all game, this one just happens to be front an center as the apex example.

 

[bamawriter]

We’ve been through this. You have to want to throw that flag. There is a clear example of worse instances being overlooked.

But what are we supposed to take from those two instances? Did the SEC crew want to throw the flag to help Bama and/or did the Big Ten crew not want to throw the flag to help Bama? Explain your reasoning, because it doesn't seem like there is any.

 

[rjd970]

SEC Officiating

Just for you all that think there's no evaluations or the officials don't get asked about the job they did.

Im sorry, but that system sucks if a guy like Curles is still calling games. This guy has been suspended and reprimanded multiple times.

It’s pretty evident the conference, at the end of the day, doesn’t care.

 

[whobethis16]

Im sorry, but that system sucks if a guy like Curles is still calling games. This guy has been suspended and reprimanded multiple times.

It’s pretty evident the conference, at the end of the day, doesn’t care.

Then get your all-knowing ass out there and do it yourself. You clearly know everything, and the world would be better if you just do it.

 

[rjd970]

But what are we supposed to take from those two instances? Did the SEC crew want to throw the flag to help Bama and/or did the Big Ten crew not want to throw the flag to help Bama? Explain your reasoning, because it doesn't seem like there is any.

My position is the SEC crew wanted to throw that flag. Worse instances are obviously overlooked.

 

[rjd970]

Then get your all-knowing ass out there and do it yourself. You clearly know everything, and the world would be better if you just do it.

I clearly want real accountability. Being an official yourself, I know that makes you uneasy. At some point a person needs to be told to hit the road. That is how the real world works.

 

[bamawriter]

My position is the SEC crew wanted to throw that flag. Worse instances are obviously overlooked.

You're arguing is that the Big Ten crew was correct in not flagging Wilson?

 

[whobethis16]

My position is the SEC crew wanted to throw that flag. Worse instances are obviously overlooked.

There are 14 eyes on that field. That's it. Just because you think you saw something on TV, you act like you know the mechanics, the training, etc for the officials. That's why it's important to have gone through the training to really understand if what was called was truly right or wrong. If you don't know why officials are in the position they are, find a legitimate local league and learn.

 

[whobethis16]

I clearly want real accountability. Being an official yourself, I know that makes you uneasy. At some point a person needs to be told to hit the road. That is how the real world works.

And we're back to what I said 3 pages ago: the number of people willing to do the job is dwindling. Drastically. You claim you want accountability, but don't provide any substantial way to actually do it, and clearly don't mind the way they get treated when they make a mistake. Young people who may want to do it get treated like garbage at 10u age games, and say "forget this". NCAA level officials all got their start at lower levels. If the lower levels don't feed the upper levels, it's going to be bad. There's countless HS games cancelled because of lack of officials. It's just a matter of time before it gets to the next level.

 

[rjd970]

You're arguing is that the Big Ten crew was correct in not flagging Wilson?

I’m arguing that the flag shouldn’t have been thrown on Taylor. I’m backing that up with an example of something an order of magnitude more egregious gets overlooked.

Again, the only way that flag gets thrown is if the official wants it, or is looking for any excuse to throw it.