Improvement under CBJ

#101
#101
Run an aggressive but smart offense Saturday, play intense defense and don't give up any big plays, no turnovers. we win by 10
 
#102
#102
Pride85 said:
What is this statement of fact based on? Please provide examples of all coaches that have not turned around a team in 3 years and went on to be busts. Several examples have been given of the opposite facts.
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You are almost asking me to DIS (sorry I was in a hurry earlier) prove a negative.... well, not almost.

I would be interested in ANY examples you can provide from the last 30 years other than the two I cited.

Examples of guys who failed btw after not turning around a program in less than 3 years... and these are those just off the top of my head whose replacements went on to have almost immediate and great success: Shula, Zook, Dinardo, and Paul Hackett

Look'em up. There's more.
 
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#103
#103
The Vols are getting better. However, this FL game is "big" as far as the power of perception goes IMO.

Lots of recruits there TN and FL are going after. It's an SEC East game. People are wanting to jump on the TN hype train but team 119 has to show them it's safe to be onboard.

TN needs to throat punch these guys the whole game. Take the crowd out. Rhino Choke Slam them for 61 minutes. Have the crowd down to half by the 4th quarter. Don't compete - DOMINATE this game. None of the game management "play not to lose" stuff which has it's place in other games at other times. Take the fight to them and win big in their house. Torque 'em down tight.

Then, tell everybody good game. Be cordial, and walk away like a dog with a ham bone. People will notice the improvements.
 
#105
#105
butchna said:
Gets 13 point a game improvement stat... Responds with stale crutch putdown-check
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Point differential per season is meaningless. Who left the other schools vs who is at Tennessee.

Which coaches leaving impacted the scores?

Blowing leads is blowing leads. Stop with the misdirection.

There is improvement in the program. I don't know many that can't see that. But stop with the relevant loss, moral victory stuff. We're better than that.
 
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#106
#106
tm3 said:
But does he lose by fewer points than Dooley did?
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No but he did have to clean up the mess Dooley left. Just look at the NFL draft and that's all you need to know. Some of you people just don't understand how much it takes to rebuild a football team after it gets torn down.
 
#108
#108
LA vol7 said:
Exactly, those who think we can just snap our fingers and be elite in the SEC and in the East in a couple years just don't know how far we fell, and they also don't know how hard it is to win in the SEC, just ask the hammers! If you think you are frustrated just talk to the bammers. They've had the number one recruiting class since the dawn of modernity and have been beaten by Ole Miss the past two years! Just be patient, it is coming!
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what is comming
 
#109
#109
So some on here think we would be more successful if we fired a coach every three years and hired a new one? What coaches are they talking about taking over a team as bad as UT was and winning championships in 3 years?
 
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#110
#110
GBO119 said:
So some on here think we would be more successful if we fired a coach every three years and hired a new one? What coaches are they talking about taking over a team as bad as UT was and winning championships in 3 years?
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We would be more successful if we hired someone who's actually a good in-game coach. Do you think Urban Meyer would be 14-14 right now?
 
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#111
#111
VKAman said:
We would be more successful if we hired someone who's actually a good in-game coach. Do you think Urban Meyer would be 14-14 right now?
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Do you think we could have hired Urban Myers? Who is the coach you would hire, that would actually take the job? I don't think Urban would have recruited any better than CBJ. Urban would not have been in the championship like he was with Ohio State. He took over a lot better team than we had.
 
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#112
#112
GBO119 said:
Do you think we could have hired Urban Myers? Who is the coach you would hire, that would actually take the job? I don't think Urban would have recruited any better than CBJ. Urban would not have been in the championship like he was with Ohio State. He took over a lot better team than we had.
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I don't, but that was a response to the attitude I so often see that "no other coach could possibly do any better than Butch has."
 
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#113
#113
WesternKyVol said:
But somehow great coaches fully establish themselves as Championship caliber within 2-3 years even given all that. How is it ignorant to expect the same at the University of Tennessee?
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a lot of the 2 to 3 year teams had good to great base of experienced or great players all ready there

CBJ took over a team with pretty much nothing and everybody knows that you aren't going to win in the SEC with Freshmen and Sophomores on the lines

when CBJ took over,I thought it was going to be a 5 to 6 year job to get the Vols to where we fans want them to be and I still don't see a quick fix for that

and lets not forget when he came in either,with a very short time to get a recruiting class together and did a decent job,but i don't count that as a year against him

he has been relentless on the recruiting trail and is doing a great job,but it takes time for the linemen to develop to SEC play,to me he is about on time as far as developing a winning team,it takes time and yes it does suck :)
 
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#114
#114
If CBJ has a valid reason for not living up to the year 3 standard of championship caliber coaches (by the way, we're only 25% into year 3), the reason is a lack of OL recruiting under Dooley. The one JUCO CBJ recruited, didn't pan out (or hasn't so far).
It is very difficult to compete, let alone win in the SEC with subpar lines.
 
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#115
#115
VKAman said:
I don't, but that was a response to the attitude I so often see that "no other coach could possibly do any better than Butch has."
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It would be hard to know what any coach could have done with this team. I don't know of any coach we could have got that would have done better. Look at Charlie Strong. I am just saying I think CBJ has done enough with recruiting, changing culture and grades of student to earn more of a chance than some are giving him. I was as mad as anyone when we lost to Oklahoma. Look at the QBs he has recruited. We will be a championship caliber team 2016 or 2017.
 
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#116
#116
tm3 said:
But does he lose by fewer points than Dooley did?
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Dooley unfortunately is the f%#^*ng trump card for critics. Lousy recruiter. Apparently a complete jackass of a human being who rode Kiffin recruits and left a bare cubbard.
 
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#118
#118
Wylo said:
Point differential per season is meaningless. Who left the other schools vs who is at Tennessee.

Which coaches leaving impacted the scores?

Blowing leads is blowing leads. Stop with the misdirection.

There is improvement in the program. I don't know many that can't see that. But stop with the relevant loss, moral victory stuff. We're better than that.
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You're locked in on the "moral victory " crutch argument. Not where I'm coming from...sure others that support giving our coach a chance to properly prove/disprove himself also don't fall under that straw man blanket. We'll know the same time as you...yea or nay.
 
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#119
#119
dbowen said:
Dooley unfortunately is the f%#^*ng trump card for critics. Lousy recruiter. Apparently a complete jackass of a human being who rode Kiffin recruits and left a bare cubbard.
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You mean, bare except for the NFL O line?
 
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#120
#120
Volmania said:
I read about people getting frustrated with Coach Jones about the lack of results and I understand that. I'm ready to win in the SEC again also, but I think he deserves more patience form us.

Our year to year improvement under CBJ has been consistent and substantial. I know it's yet to show up in wins but I feel we should see that improve this year also. Hopefully starting this week.

Our point differential improved (or stayed the same in the case of Georgia) against every one of our yearly opponents between Butch's first season and second season.

Florida
2013 lost by 14
2014 lost by 1

Georgia
2013 lost by 3
2014 lost by 3

Alabama
2013 lost by 35
2014 lost by 14

South Carolina
2013 Won by 2
2014 Won by 3

Missouri
2013 lost by 28
2014 lost by 8

Vanderbilt
2013 lost by 4
2014 Won by 7

Kentucky
2013 Won by 13
2014 Won by 34

Oklahoma
2014 lost by 24
2015 lost by 7 in overtime

Our average improvement year one to year two is 13 points per game.
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That would be double overtime.
 
#121
#121
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#123
#123
governmentmule said:
a lot of the 2 to 3 year teams had good to great base of experienced or great players all ready there
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No. Not really. LSU was a mess and hadn't won for years when Saban arrived. Bama was similar and then he ran players off. USC wasn't loaded when Carroll got there.

The best comparison is Freeze. He inherited a very similar mess and actually hasn't recruited as well as Jones on the whole. Worse yet, he's turned it around at OLE MISS in the western division.

Your argument is also undermined by the amount of attrition the program has seen under Jones. You can't say out of one side of your mouth that there were no players to work with and then praise Jones for running guys off.
 
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#124
#124
sjt18 said:
No. Not really. LSU was a mess and hadn't won for years when Saban arrived. Bama was similar and then he ran players off. USC wasn't loaded when Carroll got there.

The best comparison is Freeze. He inherited a very similar mess and actually hasn't recruited as well as Jones on the whole. Worse yet, he's turned it around at OLE MISS in the western division.

Your argument is also undermined by the amount of attrition the program has seen under Jones. You can't say out of one side of your mouth that there were no players to work with and then praise Jones for running guys off.
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#nasty
 
#125
#125
grobin4300 said:
Oh well, then based on forecasting then the only loss we have left is BAMA for this year!!!..............So, let's see how this plays out as we clearly have more talent than the previous 2 years..........it's all about COACHING now !!!
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Actually it's about maturation especially along the OL and still recruiting depth... But it's clear we are playing at a higher level, I still think we will see an 8-4 year this year ,,,,hope for better but common sense and game sense says differently,,,,
 
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