HBO's "Game of Thrones"

#6,527
#6,527
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I get that. I mean I have never believed the show WWNK is The Night's king from that story, he can't be. The OGNK was created by the CoF a long time before the Wall or the Nights Watch were formed. I just wonder who this NK is, is he the OGNK come back to life somehow? Like I said in my other post, the OGNK is supposed to have been killed by the OGAA with the sword Lightbringer which was tempered by the blood of his wife Nissa Nissa by plunging it through her heart. That is what is confusing as hell to me. Who is this all powerful NK, and where the heck did he come from? I have heard no theory or explanation yet that makes good sense.
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Good questions, but I don't think anything has been given that really details his significance outside of what we know from the show(nothing at all from the books really I think). The Children captured what seems to be a human and plunged dragon glass into him to create him as a weapon to fight against The First Men who were beating the Children in their war.

Like I said in my other post, the OGNK is supposed to have been killed by the OGAA
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Was he? It's been a little while since I read the books, but was OGNK actually killed or just defeated?

The tv show has led me to believe that the Children created the OGNK and he's the guy leading the Army of Dead now. Maybe in season 8 they'll show something about the Battle for the Dawn and we'll see if OGNK is the Night King we see now.
 
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#6,528
#6,528
TheDeeble said:
Good questions, but I don't think anything has been given that really details his significance outside of what we know from the show(nothing at all from the books really I think). The Children captured what seems to be a human and plunged dragon glass into him to create him as a weapon to fight against The First Men who were beating the Children in their war.



Was he? It's been a little while since I read the books, but was OGNK actually killed or just defeated?

The tv show has led me to believe that the Children created the OGNK and he's the guy leading the Army of Dead now. Maybe in season 8 they'll show something about the Battle for the Dawn and we'll see if OGNK is the Night King we see now.
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In the book, the CoF did NOT create the WWr's.
 
#6,530
#6,530
volinbham said:
In the book, the CoF did NOT create the WWr's.
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I didn't think they had explained any of the WW origins in the books yet. Come to think of it I don't even remember the mention of a Night King type character in the books yet. Just The Others.

Maybe I forgot. Like I said it's been a while. I figured I'd reread from the start again when the next book comes out.

But I remember the children creating the Night King last year on Game of Thrones being a nice surprise plot move. It wouldn't surprise me if that was original GRRM material that hasn't come out in the books yet.

On the Wiki of Ice and Fire, Martin said the relationship between the children and the others would be explored later in the story. Maybe more info on that will be in the next book.

http://awoiaf.westeros.org/index.php/Others
 
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#6,531
#6,531
I'd be pretty surprised if D&D didn't get the WW origin story from GRRM. It may not be exactly the same, but I have to think the COTF created them in the books as well.
 
#6,536
#6,536
Cersei and Jamie have child. Jon and Dany have a child that is the opposite sex. They grow up and fall in love. They shoot Cersei the bird as they fly off on a dragon.
 
#6,537
#6,537
carlos86 said:
Greensight is something that all the Stark children have. So seeing into the past isn't a stretch for them to believe.
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Carlos, I don't think all the Stark's have "greensight". I think they all may have warg abilities, to some extent, but that is different than "greensight".
 
#6,538
#6,538
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I appreciate that, but it is still confusing as hell. I mean we already knew all that. I guess this is just going to be a stupid effed up deal now.
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The argument for why the CoF didn't create the WWs (as in the show) is that the CoF and First Men had already agreed to their pact long before any WWs appeared - IOW, no need to create them to fight man when you've already worked it out with man.

So technically we don't know the WW origin from the book but the show timeline of CoF making them to fight the First Man is incompatible with the timeline of the CoF and First Men's fight from the books.
 
#6,539
#6,539
Season 8 plot leaks thoughts

So I watched a few of the alleged episode leak vids. IMO these is complete garbage, or at least they better be. If HBO is really going to roll out more series based in The World of Ice and Fire..these better be garbage. IF this is the real season 8 script, they are going to piss off literally everybody. That is not a bittersweet ending, it is just pure bitterness. Dany dying in childbirth, and then Euron hanging her rotting dead body on the walls of the Red Keep is going to obliterate about half the fan base of this series if true, and then to kill off Jon and Jaime and Drogon and Euron in a blast of accidental wildfire in the dragonpit is redidculous and will alienate the other half. Of course there would be a tiny minority of weirdos who jyst want everybody to die that would be orgasmic. And then to supposed have Brans dead body carried to an alter in the land of always winter and turned into the next NK is just utter B.S...IF this crap is true, there are no words to express how passed off I'm going to be
 
#6,540
#6,540
volinbham said:
The argument for why the CoF didn't create the WWs (as in the show) is that the CoF and First Men had already agreed to their pact long before any WWs appeared - IOW, no need to create them to fight man when you've already worked it out with man.

So technically we don't know the WW origin from the book but the show timeline of CoF making them to fight the First Man is incompatible with the timeline of the CoF and First Men's fight from the books.
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It's basically a garbage mess. They are going to have to something brilliant to untangle this screw up
 
#6,542
#6,542
Ulysees E. McGill said:
It's basically a garbage mess. They are going to have to something brilliant to untangle this screw up
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I see the show and the books as two completely different animals at this point. The show is what it is. Maybe GRRM had a an agreement with them early on about staying close to the books, but that would have been thrown out season 5.
 
#6,546
#6,546
TheDeeble said:
I see the show and the books as two completely different animals at this point. The show is what it is. Maybe GRRM had a an agreement with them early on about staying close to the books, but that would have been thrown out season 5.
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I'm in the same boat but ultimately I'm more interested in how the books play out than the show.
 
#6,547
#6,547
bignewt said:
or maybe just enjoy the spectacle for what it is? just a thought.
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I can do suspension of disbelief with the best of them, but a screwed up history like that is just dumb. There was literally no good reason for it to happen. I will still enjoy it I think, but it will be like having "It's a small world" stuck in your head unless they explain it better.
 
#6,548
#6,548
volinbham said:
I'm in the same boat but ultimately I'm more interested in how the books play out than the show.
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I agree, I am too. I think the book story is much richer, but the price of that richness is that there so many characters that the story has just gotten to big to finish for GRRM. He should hire Brandon Sanderson, the writer that finished Robert Jordan's sprawling epic series "The Wheel of Time" to help him tie it up satisfactorily. That guy did an awesome job finishing up an even bigger and spread out story after Jordan died before finishing. And I remember seeing an interview with him where he said that The Song of Ice and Fire was one of his favorite epics.
 
#6,549
#6,549
Ulysees E. McGill said:
I agree, I am too. I think the book story is much richer, but the price of that richness is that there so many characters that the story has just gotten to big to finish for GRRM. He should hire Brandon Sanderson, the writer that finished Robert Jordan's sprawling epic series "The Wheel of Time" to help him tie it up satisfactorily. That guy did an awesome job finishing up an even bigger and spread out story after Jordan died before finishing. And I remember seeing an interview with him where he said that The Song of Ice and Fire was one of his favorite epics.
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I want to say GRRM has been un-receptive to the idea of people helping him or finishing the series.

And since he's working on a Targaryan backstory book series, I'm half expecting Winds of Winter to come out after the HBO series is finished.
 
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#6,550
#6,550
volinbham said:
I'm in the same boat but ultimately I'm more interested in how the books play out than the show.
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Same. The show got me hooked initially. I watched season 1-3 on a free HBO weekend, then bought season 4 on DVD. Then I read the books between season 4 and 5 and realized the books were on another level of great.

The show is good, but it's just holding me over till Winds of Winter.
 
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