Electric Vehicles

[UT-Rex]

Hydrogen used in the fuel cells is a very flammable gas and can cause fires and explosions if it is not handled properly. Hydrogen is a colorless, odorless, and tasteless gas. Natural gas and propane are also odorless, but a sulfur-containing (Mercaptan) odorant is added to these gases so that a leak can be detected.

Green Job Hazards - Hydrogen Fuel Cells: Fire and Explosion | Occupational Safety and Health Administration

Likewise, gasoline is a very flammable, liquid (Category 1, EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR ; May accumulate electrostatic charge and ignite or explode).

 

[Wireless1]

Likewise, gasoline is a very flammable, liquid (Category 1, EXTREMELY FLAMMABLE LIQUID AND VAPOR ; May accumulate electrostatic charge and ignite or explode).

While hydrogen is more flammable, it’s so light that it dispersed up very quickly (vents in garages might be required) gasoline has that wonderful opportunity to puddle before it evaporates

 

[volfanhill]

Scientists discover lithium replacement that may revolutionize EV batteries: ‘99.7% efficient after over 400 hours of use’

Early but interesting

 

[jmacvols1]

4 dead, 2 critically injured in New York City fire caused by lithium-ion batteries, e-bikes

 

[VolStrom]

4 dead, 2 critically injured in New York City fire caused by lithium-ion batteries, e-bikes

I bought an e-bike last year, and it states in the manual to put the battery in the oven or outside on a non-combustible surface to charge it. I wouldn't want to have an electric car in my garage with a similar potential fire hazard charging while I was asleep.

 

[LouderVol]

Interesting. Any actual stats in those articles?

How many new 2-story+ residential, commercial and industrial projects come online annually ; how many mobile phones and other charging devices + supercomputers on the grid.

A couple false dichotomy's/premises here.

1. A single EV vehicle uses more power than a single apartment, or home for that matter. An apartment is going to be somewhere less than 30kWh a day, a home just over 30, a long range EV is 100kwh, and if you drive the average amount you have to charge every three days. yeah yeah yeah, some people don't have to charge it that much, but some people also don't use 30kWh at their home, its an average.
2. EV power usage is also far more condensed, and worse for our infrastructure, when charging an EV vs a house/apt. A house uses that much energy over a full 24hr period, a car charging pulls MORE power in 2 hrs. and if you think about how most people are going to use their EVs they are all going to charge when they get home, which produces a huge surge. which our current utility certainly can't meet.
3. An apartment complex is pretty much always going to be far more efficient than a single family home when it comes to pretty much everything, it is the green option going forward. EVs are definitely not the green option of the future they are cooked up to be.
4. Apartments, and even single family homes actively pay to upgrade the infrastructure they are a part of. And local utilities can and will absolutely kill projects if they can't meet the demand, or at the least charge a premium. I have yet to hear of any location turning down, or charging a premium, for an EV despite it being more demanding on the system than the house a utility will turn down.
5. For your argument about all the new personal electronics, you would have to double the current draw of a home to equal what adding an EV does. your laptop/cellphone are nothing compared to an EV. 0.035kWh per WEEK on a phone, a laptop is about 0.03 kWh a day, a super computer is 2.4 kWh per day, thats verse a 100kWh per full charge.

Your entire argument shows the inherent flaw within most of the people championing the green movement. They have no idea what the actual reality is. They just buy the marketing spiel hook line and sinker.

Gigantic power needed to charge the Tesla truck?

"John Feddersen, chief executive of Aurora Energy Research, a company founded by a group of Oxford university professors, said that the power required to charge the batteries of the Semi truck by the megacharger within 30 minutes would be 1,600 kilowatts, announces Financial Times. Such power is enough to provide energy to 3.4 – 4 thousand average houses. It is also 10 times more than needed by the current network of Tesla charging stations for electric cars.
Read more at: Gigantic power needed to charge the Tesla truck? "

 

[LouderVol]

https://cars.usnews.com/cars-trucks/features/can-the-nations-electrical-grid-support-electric-cars

"Most industry experts agree that the nation's electrical grid is up to the task of supporting EVs."

"It's a challenge that electricity providers say they have seen before. Few homes in the 1960s and 1970s had air conditioning, but many more homes have it today. For the most part, utility providers stepped up to that challenge and say they can do it again."

"Adding 30% more capacity in the next 20 years is thought to be feasible in light of past increases. Much of that increased capacity is expected to come from renewable sources, including solar and wind power."

The numbers they used for total power required by electric vehicles is complete bs. The article I quoted above stated 4 trillion kWh/year just to run the long haul trucks. Its this type of selective presentation of the facts that will doom us.

another thing they lie about is the actual production from renewable sources, yeah sure they are growing and may see huge spikes, but what they aren't accounting for in those calculations are the lost power from the non-renewable sources like coal, which is still a sizeable chunk of power generation, approx 20%. their decentralized power production also faces several issues, those renewables don't reliably produce everywhere. sometimes the wind doesn't blow as much as needed, and in some places you don't get enough sun. you doubling the power demand with EVs is going to require more non-renewable to fill in, not less. Wind and PV also require a large amount of area to produce as much power as a coal fired plant, that is difficult for city to find those areas.

stop listening to the experts in DC or the people who are selling this stuff. Go talk with the professionals, like me, that deal with this stuff on the daily.

 

[UT-Rex]

The numbers they used for total power required by electric vehicles is complete bs. The article I quoted above stated 4 trillion kWh/year just to run the long haul trucks. Its this type of selective presentation of the facts that will doom us.

another thing they lie about is the actual production from renewable sources, yeah sure they are growing and may see huge spikes, but what they aren't accounting for in those calculations are the lost power from the non-renewable sources like coal, which is still a sizeable chunk of power generation, approx 20%. their decentralized power production also faces several issues, those renewables don't reliably produce everywhere. sometimes the wind doesn't blow as much as needed, and in some places you don't get enough sun. you doubling the power demand with EVs is going to require more non-renewable to fill in, not less. Wind and PV also require a large amount of area to produce as much power as a coal fired plant, that is difficult for city to find those areas.

stop listening to the experts in DC or the people who are selling this stuff. Go talk with the professionals, like me, that deal with this stuff on the daily.

a. "Most industry experts agree that the nation's electrical grid is up to the task of supporting EVs."

b. have you ever studied and warned folks about the total kWh/year required for new construction, annually (sing fam res ; apts ; commercial ; industrial ; municipalities) ?

e.g. 1 million new sing fam res homes expected 2023 * 877 kWh PER MONTH (avg US) = 877,000,000 per month ( = 10,524,000,00 kWh/year).

What do you think ?

 

[VolStrom]

I've always advocated that people only charge EV's at night via solar power to "save the planet"

 

[UT-Rex]

The numbers they used for total power required by electric vehicles is complete bs. The article I quoted above stated 4 trillion kWh/year just to run the long haul trucks. Its this type of selective presentation of the facts that will doom us.

another thing they lie about is the actual production from renewable sources, yeah sure they are growing and may see huge spikes, but what they aren't accounting for in those calculations are the lost power from the non-renewable sources like coal, which is still a sizeable chunk of power generation, approx 20%. their decentralized power production also faces several issues, those renewables don't reliably produce everywhere. sometimes the wind doesn't blow as much as needed, and in some places you don't get enough sun. you doubling the power demand with EVs is going to require more non-renewable to fill in, not less. Wind and PV also require a large amount of area to produce as much power as a coal fired plant, that is difficult for city to find those areas.

stop listening to the experts in DC or the people who are selling this stuff. Go talk with the professionals, like me, that deal with this stuff on the daily.

rough calc

a. Total U.S. electricity consumption in 2022 was about 4.05 trillion kWh, the highest amount recorded and 14 times greater than electricity use in 1950.

b. 0.346 kWh/mile x 20,000 miles (per yr) = 6920 kWh/year

c. 6920 x 10m vehicles = 69,200,000,000 kWh/yr (10 mil vehicles)

4.05 trillion / 69 billion = 1.725% (10 mil veh)

 

[AM64]

I've always advocated that people only charge EV's at night via solar power to "save the planet"

Makes far more sense than the nonsense that politicians and advocates of change generally push as fact supporting positions. I'm still surprised that some of the EV lobby haven't proposed windmills on EVs to charge the cars while driving. Advocates of perpetual motion and alchemy still thrive in other forms. I'm not against change, but I'm thoroughly against propaganda driven change, and that's what drives the climate change fever.

 

[LouderVol]

a. "Most industry experts agree that the nation's electrical grid is up to the task of supporting EVs."

b. have you ever studied and warned folks about the total kWh/year required for new construction, annually (sing fam res ; apts ; commercial ; industrial ; municipalities) ?

e.g. 1 million new sing fam res homes expected 2023 * 877 kWh PER MONTH (avg US) = 877,000,000 per month ( = 10,524,000,00 kWh/year).

What do you think ?

Those experts are full of it. We can't supply our own current needs. Every time you hear about a summer brown out, or some states requesting utility customers to take certain actions to save energy means the system doesn't work. I am not the front line dealing with this issue, but as an architect it comes up quiet often to me, I can't imagine how much it comes up to those working directly on it.

I think the building is needed, and I know they contribute to improving the grid. EV's don't directly contribute to the grid. They also don't require permits from the utility company, so the utility company can't directly plan for EVs on their grid BEFORE they come online. It won't matter if we save the world from global warming if people don't have a place to live, I mean that would be one way to solve GW. thats the more socialist solution of making everyone equal, because everyone suffers. I would rather actually build everyone up, instead of a select few EV owners. and that starts with housing, a well studied and documented phenomenon, probably #3 in human development. I don't think driving an EV even cracks the top 20.

 

[VolStrom]

Those experts are full of it. We can't supply our own current needs. Every time you hear about a summer brown out, or some states requesting utility customers to take certain actions to save energy means the system doesn't work. I am not the front line dealing with this issue, but as an architect it comes up quiet often to me, I can't imagine how much it comes up to those working directly on it.

I think the building is needed, and I know they contribute to improving the grid. EV's don't directly contribute to the grid. They also don't require permits from the utility company, so the utility company can't directly plan for EVs on their grid BEFORE they come online. It won't matter if we save the world from global warming if people don't have a place to live, I mean that would be one way to solve GW. thats the more socialist solution of making everyone equal, because everyone suffers. I would rather actually build everyone up, instead of a select few EV owners. and that starts with housing, a well studied and documented phenomenon, probably #3 in human development. I don't think driving an EV even cracks the top 20.

Even here in TN we had to deal with TVA cutting power this past December in 1/2 to 1 hour increments to be able to keep up with demand. I lived in Knoxville back in the mid 80's when it dipped into the mid 20 below zero temps and the power never went off.

 

[82_VOL_83]

Customer Service, Elon Style: Musk’s Tesla Asks Man to Bring Car to Service Center After Fire Leaves It a Charred Ruin

In a shocking incident, a Tesla Model Y spontaneously caught fire on a California highway, leaving the owner, Bishal Malla, scrambling for answers from a largely unresponsive customer service team. Incredibly, Elon Musk’s Tesla asked him to bring the charred ruin left after a battery fire into a company service center. The owner responded, “How in the world am I going to do that?”

Malla was driving his Tesla on May 6 when he felt the car shaking. Initially suspecting a flat tire, he pulled over, only to discover smoke billowing from the bottom of the vehicle. Within minutes, the entire car was engulfed in flames.

Business Insider reports that in the aftermath of the incident, Malla reached out to Tesla’s customer service for answers. However, he reported that his attempts to communicate with the company were met with silence. Despite contacting the company multiple times, Malla said he received “no follow-ups.”

Customer Service, Elon Style: Musk's Tesla Asks Man to Bring Car to Service Center After Fire Leaves It a Charred Ruin

I think the tow bill would more than offset a new car.

 

[AM64]

I think the tow bill would more than offset a new car.

Imagine having a truck load up a baked Tesla and then dump it right in front of the Tesla showroom. That should stop any similar future requests. Sometimes you just need to give people who think they run things literally what they ask for. Malicious compliance.

 

[UT-Rex]

Imagine having a truck load up a baked Tesla and then dump it right in front of the Tesla showroom. That should stop any similar future requests. Sometimes you just need to give people who think they run things literally what they ask for. Malicious compliance.

Facts and Statistics
Home electrical fires account for an estimated 51,000 fires each year

So, perhaps you think the solution is to take the resulting construction debris and dump it right out front of the architect's office building (as a way to help the strain on the grid ? which is the topic ).

Surely, these professional designers continually study ways for improvement.

I am not the front line dealing with this issue, but as an architect it comes up quiet often to me, I can't imagine how much it comes up to those working directly on it.

 

[UT-Rex]

Those experts are full of it. We can't supply our own current needs. Every time you hear about a summer brown out, or some states requesting utility customers to take certain actions to save energy means the system doesn't work. I am not the front line dealing with this issue, but as an architect it comes up quiet often to me, I can't imagine how much it comes up to those working directly on it.

I think the building is needed, and I know they contribute to improving the grid. EV's don't directly contribute to the grid. They also don't require permits from the utility company, so the utility company can't directly plan for EVs on their grid BEFORE they come online. It won't matter if we save the world from global warming if people don't have a place to live, I mean that would be one way to solve GW. thats the more socialist solution of making everyone equal, because everyone suffers. I would rather actually build everyone up, instead of a select few EV owners. and that starts with housing, a well studied and documented phenomenon, probably #3 in human development. I don't think driving an EV even cracks the top 20.

"AIA members are dedicated to the highest standards of professionalism, integrity, and competence."

Now, we can also suppose that our elect Utility professionals adhere to a similar standard (right, or disagree?).

Now, tell us where between-the-lines you are seeing the worry and concern from Duke (because, some of us hear professional planning and competence from Duke) --

EV Charging - At Home or on the Road - Duke Energy (duke-energy.com)

 

[UT_VOLS13]

States weigh charging by the mile as fuel taxes plummet

 

[kiddiedoc]

Facts and Statistics
Home electrical fires account for an estimated 51,000 fires each year

So, perhaps you think the solution is to take the resulting construction debris and dump it right out front of the architect's office building (as a way to help the strain on the grid ? which is the topic ).

Surely, these professional designers continually study ways for improvement.

I am 100% convinced that these "EV Fire" stories are funded by the massive ICE industry. You are arguing with people who seriously underestimate the flammability of gasoline. As a dyed-in-the-wool Pyro, I do not.

 

[kiddiedoc]

States weigh charging by the mile as fuel taxes plummet

That's funny. So, it basically incentivizes purchasing faster cars with worse gas mileage. It's actually incredibly hilarious.

 

[AM64]

That's funny. So, it basically incentivizes purchasing faster cars with worse gas mileage. It's actually incredibly hilarious.

Yep, and it's also an invasion of privacy. It's one thing to use a tax based on fuel or electricity used as the basis for funds for road building and upkeep, and a whole different matter to build a database on user driving records. The driving record while far more in line with actual road usage also infringes the right to privacy. If your information is out there, current history says that someone (probably plural) will mine it either for corporate or government use or to sell it; and all without properly protecting it.

 

[Sea Ray]

Commercial electric vehicle startup Lordstown Motors Corp. has filed for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection nearly two months after it warned that it was in danger of failing.

In early May electronics company Foxconn wavered on a $170 million investment in Lordstown. The Ohio company said in a regulatory filing at the time that it had received notice from Foxconn on April 21 that it was in breach of their investment agreement because it had received a delisting warning from Nasdaq two days earlier.

Lordstown Motors files for Chapter 11 bankruptcy protection

 

[82_VOL_83]

I am 100% convinced that these "EV Fire" stories are funded by the massive ICE industry. You are arguing with people who seriously underestimate the flammability of gasoline. As a dyed-in-the-wool Pyro, I do not.

Should see me light the burn pile. It's glorious.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

 

[Franklin Pierce]

Jaguar is recalling more than 6,000 I-Pace electric SUVs in the U.S. due to the risk of the high-voltage battery catching fire, and it's telling owners to park them outdoors. The recall is the latest in a series of electric vehicle battery recalls because of the potential for fires. May 31, 2023