ESPN: How Hurd can win Heisman...

[bamawriter]

I don't think comparing the two vs Bama is all that helpful. From a Bama fan's POV, Hurd had a much better day against Bama than Chubb. Chubb did absolutely nothing until garbage time, and if you watch that long run, he runs right by Reggie Ragland, who was giving instructions to a couple of backup DBs and didn't even realize the ball had been snapped until Chubb was already thru the line. All of Hurd's yardage came during actual competition.

However, that doesn't change the fact that Chubb was having a better year when he went down.

 

[KBVol]

KB take his 83 yard run against the Bammer 3s/4s down and he was a very average SEC back which was why Richt kept him in that blow out to pad his stats. Overall, he had a 20/146 day for the 8.3 ypc. Take down that 83 yard run against the Bammer scrubs when the game was out of reach he was 19/63 for a 3.2 ypc. Comparatively Hurd saw the Bammer 1s/2s all day during 2015 and was 16/60 for 3.7 ypc. Outperforming Chubb against a common opponent who had their best out there the whole time. Look Chubb is a good back, but he ain't what all you push him to be IMO. He may turn out that way but so far he's not that way once you remove the smoke and mirrors Richt and UGA was pushing for him. Michel was listed on the depth chart ahead of him behind Gurley for a reason.

Take away Chubb's longest run vs Bama and he ran for the exact same amount of yards vs them that Hurd did if you subtract his longest run of the day.....Chubb 19 for 63, Hurd 18 for 63. That of course is just one game. And are you sure Bama was playing their 3rd and 4th team scrubs? I honestly don't know, but are you sure? That 83 yarder came at the end of the 3rd quarter. Perhaps they had some second teamers in rather than 3rd and 4th string guys, in which case he ripped it off vs some very talented Alabama defensive players, likely a bunch of 4 stars, maybe even a 5 in there. Just a thought.

What about some of Chubb's other big games in a very short career to date? 143 vs Missouri.....202 vs Arky.....156 vs Florida....170 vs Kentucky, on 13 carries......144 vs Auburn......266 vs Louisville.....189 vs Vandy, on 19 carries......159 vs SCar

Look, we're not always gonna agree, no worries. You don't see in Chubb what I believe I do, no big deal. For the record, I hope like hell you're right about Chubb this year in Athens when the Vols come calling.


Edit- went back and did a little research regarding which Bama defensive players were on the field during Chubb's 83 yard run. Not sure about all 11, but the following starters and very good players were on the field at the time..... Marlon Humphrey, Reggie Ragland, Reuben Foster and Geno Smith.

Edit #2- add D'Shawn Hand and Minkah Fitzpatrick as well.

So, Chubb's 83 yard run in the 3rd quarter was indeed NOT vs Bama's 3rd and 4th team players....it was vs their starters/2 deep players.

 

[hndog609]

KB take his 83 yard run against the Bammer 3s/4s down and he was a very average SEC back which was why Richt kept him in that blow out to pad his stats. Overall, he had a 20/146 day for the 8.3 ypc. Take down that 83 yard run against the Bammer scrubs when the game was out of reach he was 19/63 for a 3.2 ypc. Comparatively Hurd saw the Bammer 1s/2s all day during 2015 and was 16/60 for 3.7 ypc. Outperforming Chubb against a common opponent who had their best out there the whole time. Look Chubb is a good back, but he ain't what all you push him to be IMO. He may turn out that way but so far he's not that way once you remove the smoke and mirrors Richt and UGA was pushing for him. Michel was listed on the depth chart ahead of him behind Gurley for a reason.

We're getting awfully hung up on one game. In their career vs the SEC it looks like Hurd's at 4.3ypc and Chubb at 7.47.

Regardless of what one thinks of Hurd I'm simply bewildered at how anyone doesn't think Chubb is anything other than elite based on his body of work and measurables.

 

[Nasavol]

WalterFootball has D4H's unicorn rated as the 9th best pro prospect in 2017. Behind not 1 or 2 SEC backs, but 3. Also rated behind Perine and the white dude from Stanford.

 

[KBVol]

We're getting awfully hung up on one game. In their career vs the SEC it looks like Hurd's at 4.3ypc and Chubb at 7.47.

Regardless of what one thinks of Hurd I'm simply bewildered at how anyone doesn't think Chubb is anything other than elite based on his body of work and measurables.

Agree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see what you see with regards to Chubb.

I'll admit this.....I wasn't particularly impressed by Fournette throughout his freshman year, and said so on this board. Uhhhhhh.....I've changed my tune considerably after watching the kid last year....he's special.

 

[bamawriter]

Agree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see what you see with regards to Chubb.

I'll admit this.....I wasn't particularly impressed by Fournette throughout his freshman year, and said so on this board. Uhhhhhh.....I've changed my tune considerably after watching the kid last year....he's special.

If Fournette had been on a team with better offensive coaching he would have won the Heisman, and the vote probably wouldn't have been close.

 

[BearCat204]

If Fournette had been on a team with better offensive coaching he would have won the Heisman, and the vote probably wouldn't have been close.

I will add that if he had a serviceable offensive line and a QB with a pulse he would have as well.

 

[bamawriter]

I will add that if he had a serviceable offensive line and a QB with a pulse he would have as well.

I totally agree on the QB. I don't think the line is as bad as a few teams made them look. Bama had 11 guys reading run on every single play, and a combination of bad QB play and horrendous, stubborn playcalling sent Fournette right into the teeth of the Bama D. Arkansas and Ole Miss followed the same script.

 

[KBVol]

If Fournette had been on a team with better offensive coaching he would have won the Heisman, and the vote probably wouldn't have been close.

True. And, while the proset offense better fits LF than the spread fits Hurd, LF didn't have a stud at QB helping to take some eyes off him and to reduce the pressure on him like Jalen had in Dobbs. Bottom line for me, Hurd is an outstanding, stud SEC running back ..... but, IMHO, Fournette is a step or two better as one of the few elite level RBs in the country.

 

[hndog609]

Agree. Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I see what you see with regards to Chubb.

I'll admit this.....I wasn't particularly impressed by Fournette throughout his freshman year, and said so on this board. Uhhhhhh.....I've changed my tune considerably after watching the kid last year....he's special.

Some people think Hurd is handicapped, at least somewhat, by a lack of passing threat and perhaps that's true. Anybody here, even the Dobbs critics, want to trade for LSU's Harris? I sure wouldn't. I think what Fournette's done with defenses knowing how inept LSU's passing game is makes him look even more impressive.

I just hope he (and everyone really) can stay healthy. We've had some immensely talented RB's injured in recent memory. Chubb, Gurley, Lattimore...I hate that crap.

 

[Nasavol]

If you look at Harris and Dobbs numbers from last year. They are almost identical.

 

[KBVol]

If you look at Harris and Dobbs numbers from last year. They are almost identical.

Understand your general point. However, Harris had a considerably lower completion % and was not nearly as effective as a runner. There's a reason why Dobbs, not Harris, is getting Heisman odds and mention as the second best QB in the sec behind Kelly.

 

[hndog609]

If you look at Harris and Dobbs numbers from last year. They are almost identical.

Sorry, meant to say QB play which is beyond just passing as Dobbs basically tripled Harris rushing yards and TD's. (and Dobbs was still a better passer per comp %, yards, TD's and INTs)

Which brings us back to the original question...would you trade Dobbs for Harris?

 

[KBVol]

Sorry, meant to say QB play which is beyond just passing as Dobbs basically tripled Harris rushing yards and TD's. (and Dobbs was still a better passer per comp %, yards, TD's and INTs)

Which brings us back to the original question...would you trade Dobbs for Harris?

Nobody in their right mind would IMO.

 

[Remy]

We're getting awfully hung up on one game. In their career vs the SEC it looks like Hurd's at 4.3ypc and Chubb at 7.47.

Regardless of what one thinks of Hurd I'm simply bewildered at how anyone doesn't think Chubb is anything other than elite based on his body of work and measurables.

For me Chubb ran behind an exceptional OL his freshman year. No doubt he has talent and breakaway speed. But he became very ordinary behind an OL last year against good competition. Hurd comparatively against similar competition and a better OL, using the 2015 Bama game as a benchmark outperformed Chubb. I know that chaps Chubb fans. For me the jury is out on the guy being elite, I doubt seriously he'll be great or spectacular in 2016 as the UGA OL got worse as the season went on in 2015 so I expect him to have a good year as ashe is a good RB. Time will tell, but Fournette is the real deal hands down, Hurd will need to show everyone this year what he really is as our OL should be improved. Hurd elite? Time will tell.

 

[jonnon111]

Did Derrick Henry become a "media" guy and it wasn't in the . . . .media? Lol, I think you get media by showing out on the field. So Jalen is doing it in the right way.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I got no problem with differing opinions if they're well thought out and backed up with some proof. You've made your case well...there are plays you've pointed to to make your argument. I can respect that.

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but your tendency to misrepresent other's arguments is indicative of an unwillingness or inability to truly consider differing opinions.

However, I feel like I know what I've seen for two full seasons from Jalen. And he ain't a slow, trudging running back incapable of outrunning a linebacker or safety. He's a big, physical guy with excellent speed for a man his size. I saw video of him being laser timed at 4.37 as a 215 lb highschool Junior iirc. I don't think he now runs a sub 4.4 but he sure as hell isnt a 4.7 guy either. He has plenty of speed to have a handful of 50 yard runs under his belt at this point in his career. We just disagree on the reason(s) why he doesn't. For every play you can point to (4 or 5 to date) that substantiates your argument, there are many more that validate mine IMO. Let's just agree to disagree.

I never said Hurd was slow, just that he lacks elite top end speed. There's a big difference. The video of him supposedly running a 4.37 in high school was just a grainy cell phone video that showed him running a 40 yard dash. There was never any confirmation that it was laser timed or that he actually ran a sub 4.4. But people love reporting about freaks of nature, so that story took off. High school 40 times are notoriously unreliable.

I think Hurd has a great burst and agility. I expect his agility and explosion numbers at the combine to be better than Derrick Henry's were. But I don't expect him to match Henry in the 40 yard dash.

You keep harping on his lack of 50 yard runs being because he has shown "little to no instincts running in space" (which I still can't believe you're unwilling to admit is hyperbolic), but he's had 4-5 chances I can think of off the top of my head for those big 50+ yard runs (2014 against OU, 2015 against OU, Arkansas, and Vandy). He's been caught from behind on those runs (not to mention the fact that on a couple of those he broke tackles to get to wide open field). You can hold you position that he was caught from behind because he lacks instincts (I've little doubt you will regardless), but the much simpler explanation is that he lacks that elite top end speed that former track stars like Chubb have. Getting caught from behind points to a lack of speed, not instincts.

 

[KBVol]

I'm not trying to be disrespectful here, but your tendency to misrepresent other's arguments is indicative of an unwillingness or inability to truly consider differing opinions.



I never said Hurd was slow, just that he lacks elite top end speed. There's a big difference. The video of him supposedly running a 4.37 in high school was just a grainy cell phone video that showed him running a 40 yard dash. There was never any confirmation that it was laser timed or that he actually ran a sub 4.4. But people love reporting about freaks of nature, so that story took off. High school 40 times are notoriously unreliable.

I think Hurd has a great burst and agility. I expect his agility and explosion numbers at the combine to be better than Derrick Henry's were. But I don't expect him to match Henry in the 40 yard dash.

You keep harping on his lack of 50 yard runs being because he has shown "little to no instincts running in space" (which I still can't believe you're unwilling to admit is hyperbolic), but he's had 4-5 chances I can think of off the top of my head for those big 50+ yard runs (2014 against OU, 2015 against OU, Arkansas, and Vandy). He's been caught from behind on those runs (not to mention the fact that on a couple of those he broke tackles to get to wide open field). You can hold you position that he was caught from behind because he lacks instincts (I've little doubt you will regardless), but the much simpler explanation is that he lacks that elite top end speed that former track stars like Chubb have. Getting caught from behind points to a lack of speed, not instincts.

Certainly had no intention to misrepresent your opinions, just honestly tying to clarify mine. Thought I conceded that you'd made your points well, backed em up with evidence and said that I respected that. I also appreciate the demeanor with which you typically debate your points. Apologies that I came off in a manner I certainly had not intended. We simply disagree about Hurd here.

 

[Nasavol]

Sorry, meant to say QB play which is beyond just passing as Dobbs basically tripled Harris rushing yards and TD's. (and Dobbs was still a better passer per comp %, yards, TD's and INTs)

Which brings us back to the original question...would you trade Dobbs for Harris?

No I wouldn't trade, but, their passing stats were close. I hope JD improves, but, I have to see it first. To date he has not shown that he is in the elite class of QBs

 

[hndog609]

For me Chubb ran behind an exceptional OL his freshman year. No doubt he has talent and breakaway speed. But he became very ordinary behind an OL last year against good competition. Hurd comparatively against similar competition and a better OL, using the 2015 Bama game as a benchmark outperformed Chubb. I know that chaps Chubb fans. For me the jury is out on the guy being elite, I doubt seriously he'll be great or spectacular in 2016 as the UGA OL got worse as the season went on in 2015 so I expect him to have a good year as ashe is a good RB. Time will tell, but Fournette is the real deal hands down, Hurd will need to show everyone this year what he really is as our OL should be improved. Hurd elite? Time will tell.

Parse the AL game however you like but coming into the TN game Chubb had played 5 games and his worst ypc in any of them was 7.3.

Let's come at this from another angle; how many RB's can boast 7+ ypc in SEC play regardless of who they played for after 300+ carries. I'm not going to berate you for a bit of reticence but I think you're being awfully dismissive considering what's been done. If it was that easy to rack up 2294 yards at 7.4ypc and 21 TD's in your first 311 collegiate carries (in the SEC no less) then why doesn't everybody do it?

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

We'll see in the pros.

Right now I have Nick Chubb as Doug Martin 2.0. He'll be a good starting RB. Might make a pro bowl or 2.

Fournette is a true superstar. He reminds me of Bo Jackson.

Hurd is a unicorn. We've never seen someone like him before. We might never see one like him ever again. He can be as transformative player to the RB position as Calvin Johnson was for WRs. Just wait till he plays in a pro style offense. He'll be considered a cheat code.

Never seen anyone like him before? Good grief man. Regardless if you want to admit it or not, Hurd and Henry were almost identical physically. So yes we have seen someone like him.

You putting Hurds name in with Calvin Johnson is just plain ignorance. Johnson showed his abilities even at GT. While Hurd is a great RB and I love the fact he is at UT, he has never shown that special gear. Sorry to say that but facts are facts. He has never shown it against teams like North Texas and Bowling Green.

Your statements are just cannon fodder for your delusion that you know football better than anyone else.

 

[flatiron]

I think Hurd agrees.

‎@MrHurd_1
"I have no issue with the media. I have an issue with someone misinterpreting me and misinforming the nation on who I really am."

That's two largely positive fluff pieces about himself he's taken issue with now. Love the guy, but he needs to get some thicker skin where the media is concerned and let this stuff roll off his back a little more.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

I don't think comparing the two vs Bama is all that helpful. From a Bama fan's POV, Hurd had a much better day against Bama than Chubb. Chubb did absolutely nothing until garbage time, and if you watch that long run, he runs right by Reggie Ragland, who was giving instructions to a couple of backup DBs and didn't even realize the ball had been snapped until Chubb was already thru the line. All of Hurd's yardage came during actual competition.

However, that doesn't change the fact that Chubb was having a better year when he went down.

Thank you for being more reasonable than Vols fans themselves.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Never seen anyone like him before? Good grief man. Regardless if you want to admit it or not, Hurd and Henry were almost identical physically. So yes we have seen someone like him.

You putting Hurds name in with Calvin Johnson is just plain ignorance. Johnson showed his abilities even at GT. While Hurd is a great RB and I love the fact he is at UT, he has never shown that special gear. Sorry to say that but facts are facts. He has never shown it against teams like North Texas and Bowling Green.

Your statements are just cannon fodder for your delusion that you know football better than anyone else.

That's like saying Kelvin Benjamin is the same as Calvin Johnson. Just because Henry is 6'3" 245, doesn't mean he's anything like Hurd. What made Calvin special is at 6'5" 237 lbs, he came in and out of his breaks and ran routes like a 6'0" 200 lbs receiver. That's what made him a unicorn.

Similarly, what makes Hurd special is he has the acceleration, first step quickness, and agility of a much smaller running back. Henry on the other hand is your classic big clumsy RB.

So please don't compare Hurd to a future NFL bust like Henry.

 

[QuickSmurf]

Hurd does everything well. He has a complete game. His one weakness is that extra gear in the open field. If it turns out he's got that, and shows it this year, then he can absolutely put himself in the Heisman discussion.

If it turns out he simply doesn't have that gear, then he'll still have a great year. It just won't come with a bunch of hardware.

I think his size limits his acceleration. He's so big that it takes awhile for him to get wide open. If he had more burst at the beginning he would pull away more. I think that his top end is fast enough. It's just his long strides make it easier to get him in the back field when going North and South. Jmo though. What I said is not meant as anything bad against Hurd.