Win/ Loss comparison

#126
#126
savannahfan said:
Sorry guys.. Ten or even twenty years are not total. From the late 50's until now, except for short flashes of brilliant light we have not been great. 7-8 (maybe 9 now and then) season wins were the norm. I have been sick from Sunday til Saturday many times over this period. What we have now is the chance to be the program we all desire. (be it Butch or someone else) For me in great part to the better pool of talent that Tenn. is producing, if we can get our share ( Instate guys seem to me to play just a little harder for their home state schools, don't care what state it is) The SEC network should help us more than some others in N.C. and up the east side of the country. We still need out of state talent more than others.
Click to expand...

No one is expecting the "brilliant" every year. Or Saban type success. Just someone that can find it. Most fans can deal with 8 as long as the brilliant happens on occasion.

I'm not really sure what program you desire.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#129
#129
savannahfan said:
Wrong.... As I have posted before... From his own mouth Coach Majors told me it would take 7 years to get the program where it should be. Mainly due to recruiting changes. (number of scholarships)
Click to expand...

Majors only said that because it took him 5 years to even get past .500. It's nonsensical to say it takes 7 years to build depth. By then, you've already graduated your first 3 classes and have "started over".....3 years of "depth" are no longer in your program. If you haven't build it by year 3 or 4 you're onthe wrong path.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#131
#131
KBVol said:
Majors only said that because it took him 5 years to even get past .500. It's nonsensical to say it takes 7 years to build depth. By then, you've already graduated your first 3 classes and have "started over".....3 years of "depth" are no longer in your program. If you haven't build it by year 3 or 4 you're onthe wrong path.
Click to expand...

I could see pushing the argument to year 5, at the extreme limit.

First year, none of your recruits are playing; they're all in high school.

Second year, your first recruits are freshmen, mainly in S&C program, some on the field in special teams, very few in the two deep offense/defense.

Third year, your first recruits are redshirt freshmen and sophomores, more of them in the two deep, some starters.

Fourth year, your earliest recruits are redshirt sophomores and juniors, many starting or in the two deep, some taking over leadership roles.

Fifth year, your recruits spread from seniors / redshirt juniors all the way down to the new guys. Your roster is chock full of "your own" guys. Only a very limited number of redshirt seniors remain from before you took over.

So yeah, if you wanted, you could push the argument that far. Certainly no farther. And this would only be true if you were hired too close to the February signing date to have a significant impact on the class coming in prior to your first season. If you're a December hire, back all that up a year.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#132
#132
Actually, thinking about it a little, the new Early Signing Period will put new coaches at an even bigger disadvantage. Unless they're hired mid-season, the established coaches will have beaten them to many of the recruits by the time they're hired in December, January, or February. So that would push the argument back toward five years for a full roster overhaul.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#133
#133
VFL-82-JP said:
That's what you see in those lists.

Others see the possibility of a work in progress.

Right now, for some it's a cost-benefit calculation. There are significant risks associated with firing a coach and starting all over. In Neyland terms, three things can happen if you switch coaches: new coach can be better than the old...he can be about the same...or he can be worse. And two of those are bad for the program.

Unless things are so bad that you can rule out at least one of those negative possibilities, you might be better off staying with the one who brung you, and hoping he gets it all figured out soon.

I think that's where most of VolNation is these days. Somewhere in that neighborhood, anyway.
Click to expand...

I think most VN wants Butch to succeed just as we wanted Dooley to as well. But, I think most of us know he wont be able to bring us to an elite level.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#134
#134
I think the tipping point is GT. Lose that game and get the season off to a sour start, and the pitchforks will be waving furiously.
 
#135
#135
IknoxvolsI said:
I think most VN wants Butch to succeed just as we wanted Dooley to as well. But, I think most of us know he wont be able to bring us to an elite level.
Click to expand...

"know" is a strong word. Probably most of Vol Nation is more in the region of "suspect" or "fear" or "are concerned".

For many, it's not yet a matter of certainty. There's still hope. At least for one more season, one more chance.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#136
#136
bamawriter said:
That is nonsense. Redshirt a guy, and if he's good enough he'll go after his sophomore season. At this point, you expect to recruit well enough to lose players after 3 years. You count a 4th year as a blessing, and a 5th as a miracle. If you don't have enough depth by Year 4, that's on you. If you don't have it by Year 5, you don't deserve to try and get it in Year 6.
Click to expand...

You miss the point..and you might want to check out Bama's roster...almost a third of the players on the 2017 Tide have redshirted a year...because there was enough talent ahead of them so they could get bigger, stronger and faster and learn the system...it's a process...and the so called nonsense approach works well for Bama and many others...

The 4 players I specifically mentioned would all have improved their NFL stock with another season...but do go back a read, I also listed 4 who would have gone pro in the 2017 with or without a redshirt year...

When you come into a situation where there is very little talent, you play kids as freshmen - you have no choice...some, like D. Barnett, were ready as freshmen but others - like Cory Vereen, could have used a red shirt year to bulk up...

Butch has a number of quality recruits he was able to red shirt the last year or so...it should pay dividends...of course kids like Trey Smith are gonna play as true freshmen...but Ryan Johnson - a 4 star OL was able to redshirt...as was Jarrett Guarantano, a 4 star QB...

Butch tried to red shirt Dobbs twice but didn't have the depth to do so...depth has improved and now he can red shirt talent...
 
  • Like
Reactions: 5 people
#137
#137
Sarms58 said:
You miss the point..and you might want to check out Bama's roster...almost a third of the players on the 2017 Tide have redshirted a year...because there was enough talent ahead of them so they could get bigger, stronger and faster and learn the system...it's a process...and the so called nonsense approach works well for Bama and many others...

The 4 players I specifically mentioned would all have improved their NFL stock with another season...but do go back a read, I also listed 4 who would have gone pro in the 2017 with or without a redshirt year...

When you come into a situation where there is very little talent, you play kids as freshmen - you have no choice...some, like D. Barnett, were ready as freshmen but others - like Cory Vereen, could have used a red shirt year to bulk up...

Butch has a number of quality recruits he was able to red shirt the last year or so...it should pay dividends...of course kids like Trey Smith are gonna play as true freshmen...but Ryan Johnson - a 4 star OL was able to redshirt...as was Jarrett Guarantano, a 4 star QB...

Butch tried to red shirt Dobbs twice but didn't have the depth to do so...depth has improved and now he can red shirt talent...
Click to expand...

None of what you just wrote supports the notion that you need more than four years to build depth.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 3 people
#138
#138
Even in year five and beyond, recruiting hasn't hit full stride when 13 year olds are being offered scholarships. The relationships with recruits are developed over many years. Starting around the 5th year is when the current class of recruits has been pursued over the entire process. Butch was lucky to have so many legacies available in the first year or two. It can't be easy in today's climate to convince the top recruits to attend the school that you're coaching at in a year or two.
 
#139
#139
VolunteerHillbilly said:
I know that a lot of y'all really believe this point and I think that is what drives a lot of the cheerleading for Butch. I look at how many people Bama went through between Bryant and Saban. We shouldn't be afraid to keep kicking over rocks.
Click to expand...

I see your point, but I doubt Bama's AD allowed such horrible buyouts when they got rid of a coach.
 
#140
#140
Don't remember and don't really care enough to research it, but did they change AD's damn near every time they changed coaches?
 
#143
#143
Behr said:
Don't remember and don't really care enough to research it, but did they change AD's damn near every time they changed coaches?
Click to expand...

I remember Hootie Ingram, Mal Moore, and Battle. There may have been another one in there somewhere.
 
#144
#144
I know I'm stating the obvious, but I sure hope my opinion is wrong and we have a good one in Currie.
 
#145
#145
Behr said:
I know I'm stating the obvious, but I sure hope my opinion is wrong and we have a good one in Currie.
Click to expand...

Firings can be questioned and typically are by at least some.
Hires either smooth that over and elevate you, or having you joining those who are removed. Specifically in football around here.
 
#146
#146
BeecherVol said:
Firings can be questioned and typically are by at least some.
Hires either smooth that over and elevate you, or having you joining those who are removed. Specifically in football around here.
Click to expand...

Yea, "questioned" is the key word here, for me anyway. I may have an opinion on the firing, but I don't really question it. What's done is done. The hire is obviously the most important of the two.
 
#147
#147
bamawriter said:
None of what you just wrote supports the notion that you need more than four years to build depth.
Click to expand...

We arent talking about simply building depth with warm bodies. We are talking about building good enough depth to compete for championships. Redshirting elite talent is crucial to that, and we are just now in a position where we can do that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
#148
#148
K-town Vol Fan said:
We arent talking about simply building depth with warm bodies. We are talking about building good enough depth to compete for championships. Redshirting elite talent is crucial to that, and we are just now in a position where we can do that.
Click to expand...

I'll ask again, because you argued rhe point:

Can you explain how the depth in Years 6, 7, or 8 can build off of the recruits from Year 1?
 
  • Like
Reactions: 1 person
#149
#149
Would seem to be an exponential thing to me. The more you can redshirt early on the more starters that are quality you have later on allowing even more redshirting of freshmen and sophomores in those Juniors and Seniors years. Of course, there is a ceiling with scholarship limits but UT hasn't reached it yet. Alabama probably stays near it.
 
  • Like
Reactions: 2 people
New posts
You must log in or register to reply here.
Advertisement



Back
Top