Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

[JonGrudensAgent]

I keep reading over and over how the D in Denver carried Peyton to a 2nd title. I have a little issue with that, just a little. No doubt the D lead the charge, but no doubt also that without Manning they don't win that super bowl, as evidenced by what has happened to that very good defense ( and team ) since he retired. See, the sheriff came in against KC that year down I think 14 points maybe??? This game was huge because it was for home field advantage. So, the offensively challenged offense sputtered around for two quarters and KC was firmly in control of that game. In walks the sheriff for his first live action in weeks, noodle arm and all. only two quarters remaining. Home field at stake, and Peyton and that defense storm back and beat KC and secure home field and keep it from New England. He proceeds throughout the playoffs to humble himself, the offense is not a top offense at all, and he plays to his defense by not forcing throws. By not getting impatient, and trusting his defense. By not getting arrogant and remembering when he and the offense for so many years spearheaded many wins, and saying within himself, " it's on me, it's on the offense to lead the charge and win ". No, the sheriff didn't do this. He humbled himself, realized the Denver O, and his noodle arm, was not a top offense, and needed to take care of the ball, take advantage of field position his defense gave him, and take advantage of the amount of field available and move the ball at least until the red zone where the field shrinks and man and zone coverage gets tight and could shut down Denvers average offense. They moved the ball and kicked fgs, punted and played to their D, took advantage of the D getting to's, and took advantage of defensive mistakes for chunk yards and a few Tds. Hats off to Peyton Manning for taking full advantage of the talent of the team, playing second fiddle to the defense, and with his help winning the super bowl. Wish my broncos could have kept him for two more years afterwards because that defense remained stout ( still is ) and the team has missed an all time great QB, who knows the position and football inside and out, dearly. I don't hold that defense against Peyton. I applaud him for leading that team by playing second fiddle, but still maximizing that offense, like only a select few in history could have. Brady could have done the same, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Manning proved it didn't have to be all about him and the offense. I saw a side of Peyton Manning I had never seen, in that year, and instead of holding it against him ( playing second fiddle ) I thought it made him greater. I thought and think it put him back in the conversation for the goat.

He started 9 games and had a 9:17 TD:INT ratio in 2015.

The KC win you're referring to was a tight game the entire way and was won by a fumble return for a TD.

Manning is one of my all time favorites but he didn't have a whole helluva lot to do with that 2015 Super Bowl win.

 

[LittleCat]

Cats fans are worthless to me, peace out.

Peace brother. I think you take things too seriously. Take it easy dude!

 

[Weezer]

Charles Haley is the greatest defensive player of all time. His 5 SB rings say so.

Seriously, SB rings are not indicative of individual greatness. They are indicative of team greatness. Put Brady on another team and ask yourself if you truly believe he has the same success? Not saying he wouldn't have success, but it wouldn't be at the same level. And this isn't a comment on who the better QB is, it's a comment on how team accomplishments somehow get misconstrued as individual accomplishments.

 

[volsportsfan]

He started 9 games and had a 9:17 TD:INT ratio in 2015.

The KC win you're referring to was a tight game the entire way and was won by a fumble return for a TD.

Manning is one of my all time favorites but he didn't have a whole helluva lot to do with that 2015 Super Bowl win.

Sorry about that, I was going off of memory. It was the last game of the season and the chargers were up 13 to 7 in the 3rd quarter when Manning came in for Osweiller and Denver won 27 to 20 and secured home field. Original post edited.

 

[reecetn]

You obviously have no problem with perpetuating lies. Did you even bother reading the article about the ten-year-old? There's about as much science to his project as can be found in a pet food display at Wal-Mart, as in none.

I already linked to an article that completely disproves the taping practices lie: the same newspaper that printed the original article, printed a retraction three months later. But that doesn't fit your agenda, so you ignore it.

The taping:

1. did happen
2. was cheating
3 is worse than we will ever know because all of the evidence was destroyed.

the link to the ESPN article I provided goes into detail about this and other goodies with citations.

It even talks about how the US government threatened to take antitrust exemption away from the NFL. There is your first clue it was way worse than the idiot patriot fans and apologist will ever admit.

PLUS the penalties for deflating balls whether you think it was harsh or not (Repeat offenders always get stiffer sentences.) resulted in a suspension because it was cheating.


Another little nugget to chew on.

There is no doubt statistically Barry Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, Roger Clemons is one of the greatest pitchers of all time and Pete Rose is the greatest player of all time.

None of them are recognized for their accomplishments or will be in the hall of fame. The MLB gets it, the NFL is a joke.

 

[VolforFootball]

Agree with many here, Brady proved he's the GOAT several Super Bowls ago and now he's taken his team to the Super Bowl at the age of 41. Peyton is and will always be my favorite player, but this isn't much of a debate these days.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Sorry about that, I was going off of memory. It was the last game of the season and the chargers were up 13 to 7 in the 3rd quarter when Manning came in for Osweiller and Denver won 27 to 20 and secured home field. Original post edited.

No worries. I am a huge Broncos fan too going back to Elways 1st season.

That 2015 season was amazing and I appreciate Manning as a lifelong Vol fan. Just think that season was mostly about Wade and the defense.

 

[Concept]

There's no question that Broncos team was about the defense, and the defense won the actual SB game. However, they don't get there without Manning.

It does seem unjust to punish Manning for having a good team, but ignore the same case for Brady, who sits there untouched in the fourth quarter and waits for the refs to bail him out. Usually good calls because the other team is just beat down by that point, but not always. That's literally his only claim to fame - 4th quarter drives and just being on the better team. (Of which he is a part; I am not denying that he's a good player.)

 

[lifeisdeep]

The taping:

1. did happen
2. was cheating
3 is worse than we will ever know because all of the evidence was destroyed.

the link to the ESPN article I provided goes into detail about this and other goodies with citations.

It even talks about how the US government threatened to take antitrust exemption away from the NFL. There is your first clue it was way worse than the idiot patriot fans and apologist will ever admit.

PLUS the penalties for deflating balls whether you think it was harsh or not (Repeat offenders always get stiffer sentences.) resulted in a suspension because it was cheating.


Another little nugget to chew on.

There is no doubt statistically Barry Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, Roger Clemons is one of the greatest pitchers of all time and Pete Rose is the greatest player of all time.

None of them are recognized for their accomplishments or will be in the hall of fame. The MLB gets it, the NFL is a joke.

Your points are at least consistent in that not a single one of them has any meaning or weight at all.

You note that ESPN said the taping happened, as though said network is the paragon of journalistic perfection - when in fact they don't even bother with proofreading and almost on a daily basis have basic, sixth-grade-level grammatical errors in page one articles on their website. The last I checked, Sports Illustrated has been around longer than ESPN, and they said the whole thing was a sham - yet you pretend as though I didn't link to that article multiple times already, or that somehow ESPN outweighs SI.

You cite the fact that Brady was suspended as proof that he deflated the balls. It's really not possible to trot out a point weaker than this in an attempt to win an argument. This carries every bit as much weight as saying, "Look, O.J. had to be innocent because the jury said he was." You do realize that the same people who suspended Brady, i.e. the NFL, are the ones who accused him in the first place? It's mind-boggling that someone would even try to use the punishment as proof of the crime being committed.

 

[volsportsfan]

No worries. I am a huge Broncos fan too going back to Elways 1st season.

That 2015 season was amazing and I appreciate Manning as a lifelong Vol fan. Just think that season was mostly about Wade and the defense.

Just two different views of the game of football. They needed Peyton then and now, as far as my football mind can tell.

 

[JonGrudensAgent]

Just two different views of the game of football. They needed Peyton then and now, as far as my football mind can tell.

Definitely could use Manning ...even at 65%...now. It would be infinitely better than anything they currently have.

Their QB situation has been a disaster since he retired between drafting Lynch and Semien along with signing Keenum.

Although I dont think they are doing Keenum any favors with the WR situation and the terrible O line.

People keep touting Elway and the Broncos for picking up Lindsay this year. What gets ignored is they used I think a 2nd on Royce Freeman who barely did anything. Lindsay was blind luck based on him wanting to play in Denver being from CO.

Elway needs to step back a little and rebuild his scouting department IMO. They havent been good in the draft.

 

[reecetn]

Your points are at least consistent in that not a single one of them has any meaning or weight at all.

You note that ESPN said the taping happened, as though said network is the paragon of journalistic perfection - when in fact they don't even bother with proofreading and almost on a daily basis have basic, sixth-grade-level grammatical errors in page one articles on their website. The last I checked, Sports Illustrated has been around longer than ESPN, and they said the whole thing was a sham - yet you pretend as though I didn't link to that article multiple times already, or that somehow ESPN outweighs SI.

You cite the fact that Brady was suspended as proof that he deflated the balls. It's really not possible to trot out a point weaker than this in an attempt to win an argument. This carries every bit as much weight as saying, "Look, O.J. had to be innocent because the jury said he was." You do realize that the same people who suspended Brady, i.e. the NFL, are the ones who accused him in the first place? It's mind-boggling that someone would even try to use the punishment as proof of the crime being committed.

What is more fun?

1. Watching someone try to dig out of a hole.
2. Shooting fish in a bowl.
3. Waving at a one armed man leaning against a wall.
4. All the above in the same day.

 

[lifeisdeep]

What is more fun?

1. Watching someone try to dig out of a hole.
2. Shooting fish in a bowl.
3. Waving at a one armed man leaning against a wall.
4. All the above in the same day.

What is more pathetic, a man who lies once and then admits he was wrong when his lie is disproven, or a man who lies repeatedly with all the mental dexterity and maturity of a twelve-year old?

Here's a tip, genius: repeating lies and slander over and over doesn't make them become true. Resorting to juvenile insults to try to cover up how badly your argument has been eviscerated just makes you look like an a**.

 

[WiseOlVol]

He started 9 games and had a 9:17 TD:INT ratio in 2015.

The KC win you're referring to was a tight game the entire way and was won by a fumble return for a TD.

Manning is one of my all time favorites but he didn't have a whole helluva lot to do with that 2015 Super Bowl win.

Wrong.
In G16 @ SD, he came off the bench late for a comeback to grab #1 seed.
In Semis v PITT, he engineered a 13 play 7 minute TD drive to win the game.
In the AFC-CG, he threw 2 TDs and had a 90.1 RTG for his 3rd AFC-CG win over Belichick/Brady (v 1 loss).
Brady threw 3 picks and had a 56.4 RTG.
PM did all of this with a career-ending injury.
The D won the SB, but they're sitting home without Manning's heroics in January.

 

[lifeisdeep]

The taping:

1. did happen
2. was cheating
3 is worse than we will ever know because all of the evidence was destroyed.

the link to the ESPN article I provided goes into detail about this and other goodies with citations.

It even talks about how the US government threatened to take antitrust exemption away from the NFL. There is your first clue it was way worse than the idiot patriot fans and apologist will ever admit.

PLUS the penalties for deflating balls whether you think it was harsh or not (Repeat offenders always get stiffer sentences.) resulted in a suspension because it was cheating.


Another little nugget to chew on.

There is no doubt statistically Barry Bonds is the greatest home run hitter of all time, Roger Clemons is one of the greatest pitchers of all time and Pete Rose is the greatest player of all time.

None of them are recognized for their accomplishments or will be in the hall of fame. The MLB gets it, the NFL is a joke.

One of two federal courts who heard the Deflategate case castigated the NFL for bringing a case with no evidence linking Brady to whatever had happened to the balls; the second court said the NFL had the right by the bargaining agreement to do whatever it pleased; even then, the chief justice of that court dissented, and accused the NFL of doling out "its own brand of industrial justice."

But I suppose you have access to far more information than the judge that threw out the suspension, or the chief justice who dissented with his own court that reinstated it.

Even if Brady had admitted guilt, or even if there were any evidence at all linking him directly to whatever happened to the footballs (never mind those MIT scientists claiming it was nothing more than the effect of the cold on the balls), the lower-pressure balls were used for all of one half of one game. There has not even been an accusation that Brady or the Patriots ever tampered with balls for any other game. To say otherwise is not just wild speculation; it's slander. I realize someone with no moral compass such as yourself who will say anything, thinks slandering other human beings is all good fun.

Clemens and Bonds both have admitted to using steroids on an ongoing basis for years. I wouldn't expect you to have the mental capacity to be able to distinguish the difference between one half of one game, and something that is alleged with no evidence, and something that is admitted by the player himself to have transpired over several years' time.

Matthew 12:36

 

[BigOrangeTrain]

Agree with many here, Brady proved he's the GOAT several Super Bowls ago and now he's taken his team to the Super Bowl at the age of 41. Peyton is and will always be my favorite player, but this isn't much of a debate these days.

Your opinion. There is plenty of debate. Always has been and always will be.

 

[WiseOlVol]

One of two federal courts who heard the Deflategate case castigated the NFL for bringing a case with no evidence linking Brady to whatever had happened to the balls; the second court said the NFL had the right by the bargaining agreement to do whatever it pleased; even then, the chief justice of that court dissented, and accused the NFL of doling out "its own brand of industrial justice."

But I suppose you have access to far more information than the judge that threw out the suspension, or the chief justice who dissented with his own court that reinstated it.

Even if Brady had admitted guilt, or even if there were any evidence at all linking him directly to whatever happened to the footballs (never mind those MIT scientists claiming it was nothing more than the effect of the cold on the balls), the lower-pressure balls were used for all of one half of one game. There has not even been an accusation that Brady or the Patriots ever tampered with balls for any other game. To say otherwise is not just wild speculation; it's slander. I realize someone with no moral compass such as yourself who will say anything, thinks slandering other human beings is all good fun.

Clemens and Bonds both have admitted to using steroids on an ongoing basis for years. I wouldn't expect you to have the mental capacity to be able to distinguish the difference between one half of one game, and something that is alleged with no evidence, and something that is admitted by the player himself to have transpired over several years' time.

Matthew 12:36

Half a game?
More like half of 19 years (i.e., every season after Halloween).

If, as Yogi would say, nobody did nothing to nobody, why did Pats/Kraft happily pay a 7-figure fine with no argument?

 

[VolforFootball]

Your opinion. There is plenty of debate. Always has been and always will be.

We can debate a steak and a turd sandwich if we want.

 

[Weezer]

BTW, when talking about Peyton's career, I really think you need to split it in two. Pre and post neck injury. He became a different player after that injury.

 

[reecetn]

One of two federal courts who heard the Deflategate case castigated the NFL for bringing a case with no evidence linking Brady to whatever had happened to the balls; the second court said the NFL had the right by the bargaining agreement to do whatever it pleased; even then, the chief justice of that court dissented, and accused the NFL of doling out "its own brand of industrial justice."

But I suppose you have access to far more information than the judge that threw out the suspension, or the chief justice who dissented with his own court that reinstated it.

Even if Brady had admitted guilt, or even if there were any evidence at all linking him directly to whatever happened to the footballs (never mind those MIT scientists claiming it was nothing more than the effect of the cold on the balls), the lower-pressure balls were used for all of one half of one game. There has not even been an accusation that Brady or the Patriots ever tampered with balls for any other game. To say otherwise is not just wild speculation; it's slander. I realize someone with no moral compass such as yourself who will say anything, thinks slandering other human beings is all good fun.

Clemens and Bonds both have admitted to using steroids on an ongoing basis for years. I wouldn't expect you to have the mental capacity to be able to distinguish the difference between one half of one game, and something that is alleged with no evidence, and something that is admitted by the player himself to have transpired over several years' time.

Matthew 12:36

LMAO you quote my reference to illegally taping aka Spygate and then go on some babble about the illegitimacy of the suspension for deflating balls because a judge dismissed it?

That is why I choose #2.

What is more fun?

1. Watching someone try to dig out of a hole.
2. Shooting fish in a bowl.
3. Waving at a one armed man leaning against a wall.
4. All the above in the same day.


since you switched topics lets finish the story. I guess you forgot about the appeal.

PLUS it was kind of ironic that the judge that overturned the case was partying with Robert Kraft that same week. Is that what you meant when you said Industrial Justice? I guess that does make sense.


It is so sad that the courts get drug into the days of our lives of the Patriots. But I guess that is par for the course when you pick and choose which rules you obey and people just get tired of it and actually enforce said rules. The people who took action did not stain the legitimacy of the Patriots, belichick and Brady. They did that to themselves.

 

[alaVOL]

Peyton is the favorite son of the Tennessee Vols. A non biased opinion will be hard to find. Good luck with this debate.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Half a game?
More like half of 19 years (i.e., every season after Halloween).

If, as Yogi would say, nobody did nothing to nobody, why did Pats/Kraft happily pay a 7-figure fine with no argument?

And you have what proof of them doctoring footballs for nineteen years? Because otherwise you're just making stuff up.

 

[lifeisdeep]

LMAO you quote my reference to illegally taping aka Spygate and then go on some babble about the illegitimacy of the suspension for deflating balls because a judge dismissed it?

That is why I choose #2.

What is more fun?

1. Watching someone try to dig out of a hole.
2. Shooting fish in a bowl.
3. Waving at a one armed man leaning against a wall.
4. All the above in the same day.


since you switched topics lets finish the story. I guess you forgot about the appeal.

PLUS it was kind of ironic that the judge that overturned the case was partying with Robert Kraft that same week. Is that what you meant when you said Industrial Justice? I guess that does make sense.


It is so sad that the courts get drug into the days of our lives of the Patriots. But I guess that is par for the course when you pick and choose which rules you obey and people just get tired of it and actually enforce said rules. The people who took action did not stain the legitimacy of the Patriots, belichick and Brady. They did that to themselves.

LMAO you quote my reference to illegally taping aka Spygate and then go on some babble about the illegitimacy of the suspension for deflating balls because a judge dismissed it?

That is why I choose #2.

What is more fun?

1. Watching someone try to dig out of a hole.
2. Shooting fish in a bowl.
3. Waving at a one armed man leaning against a wall.
4. All the above in the same day.


since you switched topics lets finish the story. I guess you forgot about the appeal.

PLUS it was kind of ironic that the judge that overturned the case was partying with Robert Kraft that same week. Is that what you meant when you said Industrial Justice? I guess that does make sense.


It is so sad that the courts get drug into the days of our lives of the Patriots. But I guess that is par for the course when you pick and choose which rules you obey and people just get tired of it and actually enforce said rules. The people who took action did not stain the legitimacy of the Patriots, belichick and Brady. They did that to themselves.

So you can mention the balls being deflated, but when I respond to that, I'm switching topics? You either have ADD or are badly medicated.

By the way, typing while halfway through a fifth of whiskey doesn't make you funny - it just makes you a drunk a** making an idiot of himself.

 

[reecetn]

So you can mention the balls being deflated, but when I respond to that, I'm switching topics? You either have ADD or are badly medicated.

By the way, typing while halfway through a fifth of whiskey doesn't make you funny - it just makes you a drunk a** making an idiot of himself.

LMAO switch away....

both instances (topics) the patriots were caught and punished for cheating. This thread is about the denial of said facts by you and countless others making excuses to save the sanctity of the poor pitiful patriots. Let us not forget this thread was started about a 10 year old kid trolling the super sensitive cheatriot nation.

look on the bright side at least you guys are not like the morons defending the treasonous ex secretary of state Hillary Clinton.

One last thing:

I am trying to figure out why you quoted the same post twice in one thread.

Who is drunk??????

 

[butchna]

BTW, when talking about Peyton's career, I really think you need to split it in two. Pre and post neck injury. He became a different player after that injury.

Had his best stat year after.