Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#701
#701
Exiled said:
Do you have any strategy besides ad hominem? Since you're too stupid to know what that term means, it means resorting to personal insults when you know you can't win on logic or facts.

I wouldn't want to be you when Jesus returns.
Proverbs 19: 28-29

Glad to see Google is your friend.

I'm not sure Jesus would approve of condescending, braggadocious, pompous diatribes, so you may want to read up a little. Thank you for your concern.
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Matthew 12:36
 
#703
#703
I said I'd stay away, but here is a final stat.....

Tom Brady has appeared in 13 conference championship games. Only the Dallas Cowboy, San Francisco 49er, and Pittsburgh Steeler franchises have had more appearances as a franchise.

Brady has appeared in more Super Bowls than any NFL Franchise.
 
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#706
#706
rocytop2624 said:
No way I am taking that Dionk the one main thing that a QB has to have is the ability to win the big game. I would take Brady, Montana and Manning.
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Well that is unfortunate for you because in the scenario I laid out I would already have Dan the man on my roster and with my other picks from the list of all time greats we would be punking your team on a regular basis. :cool::p
 
#708
#708
Tom Brady is the most successful football player ever, but by no means the best, at least in my opinion.
 
#709
#709
Mtnvol80 said:
So I guess nobody can describe how "the system" works and why nobody copies it since it's as easy as plug n play?
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The system requires an all pro offensive line who can not only allow the qb a lot of time to make throws but plenty of time for possession type receivers to get wide open and have plenty of space to gain a lot more yardage. The system also requires the oline, tight ends backs and others to be outstandinding blockers not only at the line of scrimmage but also 5-10 yards down the field. They must be smart enough the understand advanced blocking schemes so that receivers get quick islolation. The receivers do not have to have blazing speed, but instead run precise routes and have great hands. The qb does not need to be mobile or athletic. He only needs to be able to find wide open receivers and throw quick 3-5 yard passes. They blocking schemes and receivers will handle the rest. The system also requires a huge tight end that is bigger and faster than everyone else. The qb only has to occasionally throw a ball in the general area of the tight end for him to catch it and then run over everyone. Speedy receivers who run deep routes down the field aren’t even required because the short passes with yards after the catch get you down the field just as quick. Typically system qbs don’t have big arms and don’t have the accuracy for 50 yard passes so it’s not a weapon they worry about. It is also very important for modern nfl rules to remain intact for the system to be most effective. If the defense is not allowed to hit anyone at the line, cover anyone closely or put a hand on the qb the system thrives. It also helps if the system qb looks real pretty back there so the media will fall in love with him and in turn the refs will always make calls in their favor. For instance, If a system qb fumbles a ball a good ref will turn it into an incomplete pass. It is also very important for a system qb to find a ball that fits his hands the best. Perhaps removing a little air will help grip the ball better on those three yard passes. Also optional but preferred is having recent films of all of the defenses formations and signals and perhaps wire tapping the other team. A good offensive system also requires a great defense that is constantly giving you a short field or bails you out when needed. A great kicker is also required to run a system as well. He must routinely nail 45+ yard field goals when the system doesn’t get you all the way to the end zone. The most important thing about the system is that no matter how many people contribute, only the qb gets the credit. For the system to be successful only the qb is to be viewed as the hero and the reason for anything positive. If the system fails it must never be the qbs fault. The coach, refs, oline, receivers, kicker or someone else must be blamed.
 
#710
#710
There never really was much of a debate. Brady is king, and nobody cares what some 10 year old kid has to say about it, actual science has already ruled on Deflategate.
 
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#711
#711
HoptownVol said:
There never really was much of a debate. Brady is king, and nobody cares what some 10 year old kid has to say about it, actual science has already ruled on Deflategate.
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I actually read the kids project and there is some pretty compelling evidence. Not sure if I can crown Brady king but I’m willing to call him queen.
 
#712
#712
PhoenixAZVol said:
I actually read the kids project and there is some pretty compelling evidence. Not sure if I can crown Brady king but I’m willing to call him queen.
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"Compelling evidence" from a 10 year old? LMAO Your logic is just as flawed as that child's, no wonder you two might fall into agreement on an issue I'm sure you know nothing about.
 
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#714
#714
HoptownVol said:
"Compelling evidence" from a 10 year old? LMAO Your logic is just as flawed as that child's, no wonder you two might fall into agreement on an issue I'm sure you know nothing about.
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Brady or Manning will never be “settled”. People love or hate one or the other. I think it is more about likability. If my daughter brought these two guys home I would prefer Manning because he seems warmer and more fun and more likely to raise my grandchildren with care. I would say Brady might be somewhat more successful on the material side but Manning would be more than sufficient.
 
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#715
#715
Alex10 said:
My take on it is that Brady gets the honor because of playoff wins and Super Bowls. I don’t think he is/was a better qb than manning but he was lucky enough to play in a much better situation his whole career.... manning had to carry his teams... Brady has always been surrounded by a great cast and probably the greatest nfl coach of all time... had manning played under belichick his whole career I have no doubts he would have as many Super Bowls as Brady, conversely had Brady played for those same colt teams he doesn’t have any more Super Bowls than manning, I honestly doubt he would have any. So yes Brady gets the GOAT award but not because he is the better talent, but because he was the beneficiary of much better circumstances his entire career.
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The difference between Peyton and Brady is that Peyton is your prototypical "built in a lab" QB. Brady is not more athletic (although neither is athletic), have a strong or more accurate arm, or any better at managing the game or the offense than Peyton was.

The thing that Brady does have is some type of intangible "I can win, no matter the situation" attitude that Peyton didn't quite have. Or at least have as consistently.

I actually disagree about the "Brady has always been surrounded by a great cast" bit. Brady has the best coach who has ever coached. The really interesting thing about Brady is that he has very rarely has had superstars around him. Much fewer than Peyton. Look over the balance of his entire career. Brady never had had some legendary or even really good RB to hand the ball to. It's been a rotating mix of decent guys. His offensive lines are frequently made up of anonymous guys and have changed often, but are good despite that. Outside of a couple years with Randy Moss and an oft-injured Gronk, he's never had elite pass-catching threats. Welker, Edelman, Troy Brown, etc. are not elite receivers - he has never had a Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne, etc, but they produce. On defense, has New England never has had some all-time great defender - it is a rotating mix of guys who play well when they are there. He's never had some uber-athletic, freakish pass rusher like a Dwight Freeney, Von Miller, or a Robert Mathis.
 
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#716
#716
beamerman said:
Brady or Manning will never be “settled”. People love or hate one or the other. I think it is more about likability. If my daughter brought these two guys home I would prefer Manning because he seems warmer and more fun and more likely to raise my grandchildren with care. I would say Brady might be somewhat more successful on the material side but Manning would be more than sufficient.
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Say what you really mean, Manning seems less likely to get the goods on the first date from your daughter
 
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#717
#717
Alex10 said:
Oh wow a hall of fame receiver? Well heck how did anyone ever beat them? People act like I’m talking just the offensive side of the ball... patriots D was always far far superior to the colts so Brady didn’t feel like he had to put up 40 every game to win... also belichi is like Saban, I’m convinced he could win games with a team full of mannequins.
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True, it was far superior to the Colts, but on paper it never appeared like it "should" be. The Colts had really good individual players - Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders. It isn't a coincidence the Colts won the Super Bowl that year with their best defense of Peyton's run there. The Colts were always weak at LB and in the secondary, and they won the SB that year Bob Sanders was one of the better safeties in the league. Again, not a coincidence. The Colts, even their defense was lacking, always had a D-line that could rush the passer.

Brady is better than Peyton because of Belichick, pure and simple. Brady always has had superior coaching. Belichick never has had an elite pass rusher in his prime - he has had good guys in the secondary like Ty Law or Rodney Harrison, but he's never had an edge rusher that struck the fear of God in you. Would Chandler Jones be the closest thing? As an example, look at the D-line that started Super Bowl LI...Alan Branch, Malcom Brown, and Trey Flowers. I mean are they solid names, yes, but gamebreakers? Does that sound like a Super Bowl-winning D-line?
 
#718
#718
This thread could only reach 700+ posts on Volnation or whatever equivalent the Colts have (maybe). Some of you really need to let this go and appreciate Brady's greatness before he retires.
 
#719
#719
SmilezDavis said:
This thread could only reach 700+ posts on Volnation or whatever equivalent the Colts have (maybe). Some of you really need to let this go and appreciate Brady's greatness before he retires.
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I think I will appreciate Brady the most when I see two defensive lineman laying on top of him, burying him about 3 feet in the ground
 
#721
#721
PhoenixAZVol said:
The system requires an all pro offensive line who can not only allow the qb a lot of time to make throws but plenty of time for possession type receivers to get wide open and have plenty of space to gain a lot more yardage. The system also requires the oline, tight ends backs and others to be outstandinding blockers not only at the line of scrimmage but also 5-10 yards down the field. They must be smart enough the understand advanced blocking schemes so that receivers get quick islolation. The receivers do not have to have blazing speed, but instead run precise routes and have great hands. The qb does not need to be mobile or athletic. He only needs to be able to find wide open receivers and throw quick 3-5 yard passes. They blocking schemes and receivers will handle the rest. The system also requires a huge tight end that is bigger and faster than everyone else. The qb only has to occasionally throw a ball in the general area of the tight end for him to catch it and then run over everyone. Speedy receivers who run deep routes down the field aren’t even required because the short passes with yards after the catch get you down the field just as quick. Typically system qbs don’t have big arms and don’t have the accuracy for 50 yard passes so it’s not a weapon they worry about. It is also very important for modern nfl rules to remain intact for the system to be most effective. If the defense is not allowed to hit anyone at the line, cover anyone closely or put a hand on the qb the system thrives. It also helps if the system qb looks real pretty back there so the media will fall in love with him and in turn the refs will always make calls in their favor. For instance, If a system qb fumbles a ball a good ref will turn it into an incomplete pass. It is also very important for a system qb to find a ball that fits his hands the best. Perhaps removing a little air will help grip the ball better on those three yard passes. Also optional but preferred is having recent films of all of the defenses formations and signals and perhaps wire tapping the other team. A good offensive system also requires a great defense that is constantly giving you a short field or bails you out when needed. A great kicker is also required to run a system as well. He must routinely nail 45+ yard field goals when the system doesn’t get you all the way to the end zone. The most important thing about the system is that no matter how many people contribute, only the qb gets the credit. For the system to be successful only the qb is to be viewed as the hero and the reason for anything positive. If the system fails it must never be the qbs fault. The coach, refs, oline, receivers, kicker or someone else must be blamed.
Click to expand...
just a friendly suggestion ..... if you want what you write to be read, make it easy for people to do that by formatting. it's a trick smart book editors use because they know people like things in bite-sized pieces.
 
#722
#722
05_never_again said:
True, it was far superior to the Colts, but on paper it never appeared like it "should" be. The Colts had really good individual players - Dwight Freeney, Robert Mathis, Bob Sanders. It isn't a coincidence the Colts won the Super Bowl that year with their best defense of Peyton's run there. The Colts were always weak at LB and in the secondary, and they won the SB that year Bob Sanders was one of the better safeties in the league. Again, not a coincidence. The Colts, even their defense was lacking, always had a D-line that could rush the passer.

Brady is better than Peyton because of Belichick, pure and simple. Brady always has had superior coaching. Belichick never has had an elite pass rusher in his prime - he has had good guys in the secondary like Ty Law or Rodney Harrison, but he's never had an edge rusher that struck the fear of God in you. Would Chandler Jones be the closest thing? As an example, look at the D-line that started Super Bowl LI...Alan Branch, Malcom Brown, and Trey Flowers. I mean are they solid names, yes, but gamebreakers? Does that sound like a Super Bowl-winning D-line?
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Yeah I agree, Brady has had the benefit of an absolutely elite head coach his entire career, why people make light of this fact I have no idea. 2 things are always needed for dynasties at the pro level. 1) at least a few great players ( which Brady certainly is.) and 2) a legendary coach. Brady and belichick made each other what they are in the playoffs... manning never had the other half.
 
#723
#723
TenUhSee said:
just a friendly suggestion ..... if you want what you write to be read, make it easy for people to do that by formatting. it's a trick smart book editors use because they know people like things in bite-sized pieces.
Click to expand...

Yup agree that I definitely got long winded with my response. It started out as a semi serious response but them my sarcasm and satire kicked in. I blame it on the 5 hour energy I consumed prior to my post.
 
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#724
#724
This Brady guy is causing a civil war within volnation. He is a very polarizing figure without any in betweens. Either we love him or hate him and nobody can convince us to move closer to the other side. Maybe we should just make a commitment to not even mention him much like religion or politics are not discussed in some families. Those who love him can tune into the game this Sunday and for those of us who throw up in their mouths when his name is mention can enjoy another activity. Let’s not let this guy take anything away from our first love: UT football.
 
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