Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

[volsportsfan]

I keep reading over and over how the D in Denver carried Peyton to a 2nd title. I have a little issue with that, just a little. No doubt the D lead the charge, but no doubt also that without Manning they don't win that super bowl, as evidenced by what has happened to that very good defense ( and team ) since he retired. See, the sheriff came in against SD that year down 13 to 7 in the 3rd quarter. This game was huge because it was for home field advantage. So, the offensively challenged offense sputtered around for a little over two quarters against SD. In walks the sheriff for his first live action in weeks, noodle arm and all. Under two quarters remaining. Home field at stake, and Peyton and that defense storm back and beat SD and secure home field and keep it from New England. He proceeds throughout the playoffs to humble himself, the offense is not a top offense at all, and he plays to his defense by not forcing throws. By not getting impatient, and trusting his defense. By not getting arrogant and remembering when he and the offense for so many years spearheaded many wins, and saying within himself, " it's on me, it's on the offense to lead the charge and win ". No, the sheriff didn't do this. He humbled himself, realized the Denver O, and his noodle arm, was not a top offense, and needed to take care of the ball, take advantage of field position his defense gave him, and take advantage of the amount of field available and move the ball at least until the red zone where the field shrinks and man and zone coverage gets tight and could shut down Denvers average offense. They moved the ball and kicked fgs, punted and played to their D, took advantage of the D getting to's, and took advantage of defensive mistakes for chunk yards and a few Tds. Hats off to Peyton Manning for taking full advantage of the talent of the team, playing second fiddle to the defense, and with his help winning the super bowl. Wish my broncos could have kept him for two more years afterwards because that defense remained stout ( still is ) and the team has missed an all time great QB, who knows the position and football inside and out, dearly. I don't hold that defense against Peyton. I applaud him for leading that team by playing second fiddle, but still maximizing that offense, like only a select few in history could have. Brady could have done the same, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Manning proved it didn't have to be all about him and the offense. I saw a side of Peyton Manning I had never seen, in that year, and instead of holding it against him ( playing second fiddle ) I thought it made him greater. I thought and think it put him back in the conversation for the goat.

 

[butchna]

I keep reading over and over how the D in Denver carried Peyton to a 2nd title. I have a little issue with that, just a little. No doubt the D lead the charge, but no doubt also that without Manning they don't win that super bowl, as evidenced by what has happened to that very good defense ( and team ) since he retired. See, the sheriff came in against KC that year down I think 14 points maybe??? This game was huge because it was for home field advantage. So, the offensively challenged offense sputtered around for two quarters and KC was firmly in control of that game. In walks the sheriff for his first live action in weeks, noodle arm and all. only two quarters remaining. Home field at stake, and Peyton and that defense storm back and beat KC and secure home field and keep it from New England. He proceeds throughout the playoffs to humble himself, the offense is not a top offense at all, and he plays to his defense by not forcing throws. By not getting impatient, and trusting his defense. By not getting arrogant and remembering when he and the offense for so many years spearheaded many wins, and saying within himself, " it's on me, it's on the offense to lead the charge and win ". No, the sheriff didn't do this. He humbled himself, realized the Denver O, and his noodle arm, was not a top offense, and needed to take care of the ball, take advantage of field position his defense gave him, and take advantage of the amount of field available and move the ball at least until the red zone where the field shrinks and man and zone coverage gets tight and could shut down Denvers average offense. They moved the ball and kicked fgs, punted and played to their D, took advantage of the D getting to's, and took advantage of defensive mistakes for chunk yards and a few Tds. Hats off to Peyton Manning for taking full advantage of the talent of the team, playing second fiddle to the defense, and with his help winning the super bowl. Wish my broncos could have kept him for two more years afterwards because that defense remained stout ( still is ) and the team has missed an all time great QB, who knows the position and football inside and out, dearly. I don't hold that defense against Peyton. I applaud him for leading that team by playing second fiddle, but still maximizing that offense, like only a select few in history could have. Brady could have done the same, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Manning proved it didn't have to be all about him and the offense. I saw a side of Peyton Manning I had never seen, in that year, and instead of holding it against him ( playing second fiddle ) I thought it made him greater. I thought and think it put him back in the conversation for the goat.

I don’t think they MAKE the Super Bowl without Peyton. Solely on the basis of the Pittsburgh game. Made plays only a great one makes to pull that one out...and Brock Osweiller doesn’t imo. After that all he had to do was lay flat and not wriggle too much.

 

[volsportsfan]

I don’t think they MAKE the Super Bowl without Peyton. Solely on the basis of the Pittsburgh game. Made plays only a great one makes to pull that one out...and Brock Osweiller doesn’t imo. After that all he had to do was lay flat and not wriggle too much.

Agree to disagree. I think Peyton maximized that offense, and maximized that team. Hats off to him for putting himself back in the goat convo with that season and championship IMO

 

[butchna]

Agree to disagree. I think Peyton maximized that offense, and maximized that team. Hats off to him for putting himself back in the goat convo with that season and championship IMO

Not much of a SEASON...barely played. Worst stats in a season that he actually participated. Was grateful he got that second Super Bowl title.

 

[PhoenixAZVol]

I keep reading over and over how the D in Denver carried Peyton to a 2nd title. I have a little issue with that, just a little. No doubt the D lead the charge, but no doubt also that without Manning they don't win that super bowl, as evidenced by what has happened to that very good defense ( and team ) since he retired. See, the sheriff came in against KC that year down I think 14 points maybe??? This game was huge because it was for home field advantage. So, the offensively challenged offense sputtered around for two quarters and KC was firmly in control of that game. In walks the sheriff for his first live action in weeks, noodle arm and all. only two quarters remaining. Home field at stake, and Peyton and that defense storm back and beat KC and secure home field and keep it from New England. He proceeds throughout the playoffs to humble himself, the offense is not a top offense at all, and he plays to his defense by not forcing throws. By not getting impatient, and trusting his defense. By not getting arrogant and remembering when he and the offense for so many years spearheaded many wins, and saying within himself, " it's on me, it's on the offense to lead the charge and win ". No, the sheriff didn't do this. He humbled himself, realized the Denver O, and his noodle arm, was not a top offense, and needed to take care of the ball, take advantage of field position his defense gave him, and take advantage of the amount of field available and move the ball at least until the red zone where the field shrinks and man and zone coverage gets tight and could shut down Denvers average offense. They moved the ball and kicked fgs, punted and played to their D, took advantage of the D getting to's, and took advantage of defensive mistakes for chunk yards and a few Tds. Hats off to Peyton Manning for taking full advantage of the talent of the team, playing second fiddle to the defense, and with his help winning the super bowl. Wish my broncos could have kept him for two more years afterwards because that defense remained stout ( still is ) and the team has missed an all time great QB, who knows the position and football inside and out, dearly. I don't hold that defense against Peyton. I applaud him for leading that team by playing second fiddle, but still maximizing that offense, like only a select few in history could have. Brady could have done the same, but that doesn't take away from the fact that Manning proved it didn't have to be all about him and the offense. I saw a side of Peyton Manning I had never seen, in that year, and instead of holding it against him ( playing second fiddle ) I thought it made him greater. I thought and think it put him back in the conversation for the goat.

Great post.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Looks like we are at a standstill. Butchna, Boston vol, and the really angry guy who thinks everyone is a liar all think Brady is the greatest human being who ever lived and deserves a Nobel peace prize. The rest of us agree that he has had great success but has benefited greatly from superior teams and the ‘system’ and would not have had the same level of success on another team. Manning on the other hand didn’t win as much but had to carry his team a lot more as he somehow made it to 4 suberbowls with for different coaches. Also, most, including butchna, can’t stand Brady because he is a smug arrogant jerk who crys a lot and is likely a liar and cheater and has gotten ridiculous calls in his favor.

I count eight different posters, just in the last two pages of the thread prior to this one, who pretty clearly agree with me and Butchna and Boston Vol. So your counting skills are not any better than your football knowledge. And you're still a liar. Anyone who claims Brady played with better teams when it's an objective fact he never for one season had anything remotely approaching the offensive skill players that Manning had for most of his career, is just a willful liar who will say anything.

 

[Behr]

Great post.

Yea, putting the actual debate aside, its a very good post.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Not much of a SEASON...barely played. Worst stats in a season that he actually participated. Was grateful he got that second Super Bowl title.

Minor detail! Every analyst in the country talked weekly about whether Manning would even start instead of Osweiler in the playoffs, and if he did, whether he could keep from losing the game for them. Whereas a week ago Brady, at the age of 41, made the wunderkind Mahomes look sick in the AFCCG and sent him home.

 

[lifeisdeep]

Left this thread alone yesterday hoping it would go away. This time around I feel obligated to say something - I am not shocked by those of you arguing Manning since this is Volnation...but you’re just flat out wrong and your homerness is out of control. Ha!

Never fear - they'll pretend you didn't post this and five minutes from now will be screaming again that they're the majority.

Thanks for standing up for the truth.

 

[lifeisdeep]

You have failed time and time again. When presented with facts that 2 pther QBs have shined at NE, you ignored it. When presented that 2 teams absolutely failed misreably without Peyton, you ignored it. NE also qualified for the playoffs in 2008. Like I said, because of a tiebreaker they barely missed. Did they tank? Nope. Did their offense plummet? Nope.

Luck? Why do you think they were even in the position to draft him? Because Peyton left. Also, Luck was the #1 overall pick and was talked about as the most NFL ready QB since Manning. He was also talked about being the best pure prospect since Elway. So lets stop pretending like Manning was replaced by scrubs like Brady was. Jimmy G would have like.y led NE just as well. Belicheck wanted to trade Brady to keep Jimmy G. What does that tell you?

So not making the playoffs is "shining?" Winning three games and then getting hurt is "shining?" Go ahead and name the number of playoff games that have been won by any other Pats QB in the last nineteen years. I'll wait.

This is the epitome of the lengths you'll go to to distort the truth:

NE also qualified for the playoffs in 2008. Like I said, because of a tiebreaker they barely missed.

Do you have any remote idea how foolish comments like this make you sound? This is like saying, "I scored enough points to pass the bar exam, if they had changed the minimum score requirement to let in losers like me."

 

[lifeisdeep]

LOL at the irony of the fact that a 10 year old kid can see the blatancy of what is really going on in new england.

Never mind the fact that ESPN outside the lines covered it in detail and no one even noticed. LOL except for Roger Goodell who went on Mike and MIke MINUTES after the story was released. Nothing to see here move along.

Poor new england fans it must be tiring to defend all the lies.

When Bill Belicheck, a self proclaimed "student of the game" football genius claimed he did not know taping practices and or walk throughs before a game was cheating? lmao no wonder a 10 year old can see it. I mean he has been reading for 5 plus years. What is your excuse???????

You obviously have no problem with perpetuating lies. Did you even bother reading the article about the ten-year-old? There's about as much science to his project as can be found in a pet food display at Wal-Mart, as in none.

I already linked to an article that completely disproves the taping practices lie: the same newspaper that printed the original article, printed a retraction three months later. But that doesn't fit your agenda, so you ignore it.

 

[Behr]

You obviously have no problem with perpetuating lies. Did you even bother reading the article about the ten-year-old? There's about as much science to his project as can be found in a pet food display at Wal-Mart, as in none.

I already linked to an article that completely disproves the taping practices lie: the same newspaper that printed the original article, printed a retraction three months later. But that doesn't fit your agenda, so you ignore it.

Yea, I loved it that time you took up for Tom and was quoted saying something about "he can't catch his own throws". Haha, that was funny.

 

[lifeisdeep]

There's a Wildcat kid who won a science fair exhibit proving Brady is a cheat.
https://nypost.com/2019/01/24/10-year-old-proves-tom-brady-is-a-cheater-wins-science-fair/

This has already been discussed, genius. Did you even bother to read the article? Safe to say that kid is not winning a scholarship for his science acumen anytime soon. If you bothered to know even a little what you're talking about, you would know that the Patriots only scored 17 points in the first half of the game in question, whereas in the second half, with different balls that were fully inflated, they scored 28 points. Which makes that kid's project asinine, and a testament to the laziness and incompetence of his science teacher.

If you want an actual scientist's perspective on the matter, here's an article from a national sports publication - perhaps you have heard of them? - called Sports Illustrated, in which an MIT professor (that's one of the two or three top universities in the country for science) actually uses pertinent, basic laws of science to eviscerate the NFL's case:

Science says Patriots never tampered footballs

 

[lifeisdeep]

Yea, I loved it that time you took up for Tom and was quoted saying something about "he can't catch his own throws". Haha, that was funny.

You really think a supermodel married to the best quarterback in the history of the game would take the time to argue with a bunch of nobodies (I'm including myself in that designation) on a Vol message board? That's really not very bright.

 

[VolinMC]

Stupid debate to begin with, you have Manning vs Brady bunch. No one is changing their minds, no matter which side you are on. I personally don’t like Brady, don’t care about his accomplishments, has nothing to do with the debate if he is the GOAT. No one is moving on either side.

Exactly. Its an opinion only argument that can never be settled.

Exactly both of you are right. It's never gonna be settled and opinions are just being tossed around as some facts. Stats are being brought up but you can make them look however you want using them individually.
Imho,,,,being the GOAT is subjective. People have their own favorites and won't change their minds. Anyway,,,,carry on. This has been at least entertaining.

 

[Behr]

You really think a supermodel married to the best quarterback in the history of the game would take the time to argue with a bunch of nobodies (I'm including myself in that designation) on a Vol message board? That's really not very bright.

Haha, she's the only one I could think of that would seem to care as much as you seem to about this.

 

[Behr]

People have their own favorites and won't change their minds. Anyway,,,,carry on. This has been at least entertaining.

Absolutely. I can't stand Brady, but you can't ignore what he's accomplished. I ain't saying him or Peyton are the GOAT, for different reasons. . People are going to debate it and who cares if they do, but goodness...ain't no reason to get all batchit over it. Haha.

 

[Behr]

 

[WoodsmanVol]

This has already been discussed, genius. Did you even bother to read the article? Safe to say that kid is not winning a scholarship for his science acumen anytime soon. If you bothered to know even a little what you're talking about, you would know that the Patriots only scored 17 points in the first half of the game in question, whereas in the second half, with different balls that were fully inflated, they scored 28 points. Which makes that kid's project asinine, and a testament to the laziness and incompetence of his science teacher.

If you want an actual scientist's perspective on the matter, here's an article from a national sports publication - perhaps you have heard of them? - called Sports Illustrated, in which an MIT professor (that's one of the two or three top universities in the country for science) actually uses pertinent, basic laws of science to eviscerate the NFL's case:

Science says Patriots never tampered footballs

Mr. Genius, the post was obviously made in jest. IT'S A KID, did you catch that? Probably not, folks too full of themselves usually don't see the obvious. We done?

 

[LittleCat]

Lets discuss the cats greatest ever nflQB.. have y’all ever even had one? I love how Kentucky fans talk all this trash at basketball season about how rich their history is and other programs are nothing because they haven’t won multiple titles, but then at football time you guys act like tradition doesn’t matter. I guess because your history in football is to be nothing more than a joke.

Your post reeks of insecurity. I laughed at the idea that Brady has never had a good team around him. You start insulting UK football tradition as if I claimed some sort of superiority. Calm down chief.

 

[Behr]

Mr. Genius, the post was obviously made in jest. IT'S A KID, did you catch that? Probably not, folks too full of themselves usually don't see the obvious. We done?

Kind of silly either way since it was the OP.

 

[LittleCat]

Answer this question for me simply brady or manning....during both of their primes who was surrounded by the better teams, organization and coach? I’m not saying Brady isn’t the GOAT but if you honestly think during their primes the colts overall organization( from coaches to players) was as good as the patriots then there really is no point in discussing it further, I mean it’s obvious, and that’s all I’m saying.

I look at careers as a whole. In terms of production and consistency, and ultimately winning. Brady has won for 20 years straight with a ridiculous amount of rotating players. Is Brady partially a product of a great franchise? Maybe. Do I think it's close? Sure. I'm not a Peyton hater at all.

 

[WoodsmanVol]

Kind of silly either way since it was the OP.

All I can say is I don't have a photograph, but you can have my footprints. They're upstairs in my socks.

 

[Alex10]

Your post reeks of insecurity. I laughed at the idea that Brady has never had a good team around him. You start insulting UK football tradition as if I claimed some sort of superiority. Calm down chief.

Cats fans are worthless to me, peace out.

 

[VolsSportsFan]

The only ones I ever see care about this is Manning fanboys.

 

[Behr]

The only ones I ever see care about this is Manning fanboys.

That's obviously not the case this time.