Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#401
#401
Alex10 said:
Its like you can’t comprehend... Brady’s accomplishments do speak for themselves, I said as much. I guess there’s no way that circumstances were different for the two in their careers was there? If you think that during their primes manning had as good of a coach and organization around him as Brady then well I don’t know. It’s a waste of time trying to make a point with you though because you seem to just lock on to the surface of an argument and refuse to delve further into what someone is actually trying to say. You win, have a good one.
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You will latch on to an notion that Manning is better than Brady, not because its true but because it's what you want to believe.
 
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#402
#402
Why did someone in all the videos just not watch the footballs that Brady used when they came off of the field. If they were kept separate from the balls the kicker used he is guilty. The kickers would have rather theirs been over inflated. It would not have been rocket science.
 
#403
#403
Brady is probably the greatest system QB of all time. Put him on another team and he wouldn't be the same player. I still believe he made a deal with the devil.
 
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#405
#405
butchna said:
Peyton had a GM that would keep a Marvin Harrison, Reggie Wayne and Dallas Clark throughout their productivity...Brady didn’t save for habitually injured Gronk. In addition to the sheer number of Super Bowl and AFC championship game APPEARANCES...much less wins there’s no contest. And the passing marks Peyton put up are soon to be passed up if not already (thank god for Drew Brees). Patriots never carried Brady...quite the vice-versa. Belichick is the superior football mind to whoever Peyton had as his HC, but Belichick was average to below mediocre as a HC before Brady emerged. As a Peyton apologist, I yielded to reality a long time ago on this one.
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Patriots and Bama are identical with Saban and Belichick twins. I despise both with a passion, always root against them and believe they both cheat. I don’t care how many SB appearances pretty boy Brady appears in, I will never call him the greatest. Send him to Cleveland and tell me how many appearances he makes. He and Belichick caught magic and neither could win without the other. Go Rams.
 
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#406
#406
volfannbama said:
Lol, Mannings colts teams had tons of talent, including a hall of fame wr.
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Yeah, they had Jim Caldwell coaching as well, losing at home to the Jets in the playoffs. I am not blaming Dungy for retiring but he had the Colts built for multiple SB appearances and handed them off to Caldwell who couldn’t coach.
 
#407
#407
thunder5 said:
I can agree with that...and I believe Super Bowls should be part the discussion...Ive watched Brady play at his best in those games and I’ve watched manning flat out choke in his two losses...

But football is the biggest team sport there is ( you literally cannot win games by yourself)..,people that talk about the Super Bowls as if the were a golf/tennis major that Brady won all by himself are way off base IMO
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Definitely not by himself but the driving and constant factor. Belichick had a losing record with Cleveland and NE until the very year that Brady started games. Since then he’s the only constant on that roster and he’s not a game manager. I held out hope that this season was the beginning of that downward trend and...you know the rest.
 
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#409
#409
dcm3w said:
Eli is 2-0 against Brady in the Superbowl...does that make him better?
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If he was 5-0 maybe. Eli either wins the Super Bowl or doesn’t make the playoff...kind of a detracting factor.
 
#410
#410
volfannbama said:
Were they one the field at the same time?
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I believe they were. Manning was on the sideline cheering as Von Miller sacked Brady again.
OrangeByBirth said:
It is, has been, and will be a generational discussion. Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, YA Tittle, Bart Starr, and others have been involved in similar comparisons for decades. It always goes back to the league standard at that time.
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So true, and how many people believe Joe Namath is on par with Johnny Unitas because the Jets won a SB?
 
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#411
#411
Weezer said:
Brady is probably the greatest system QB of all time. Put him on another team and he wouldn't be the same player. I still believe he made a deal with the devil.
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He’s done it with different rosters and different levels of players. Edelman-Moss. He gets it done. There’s no genius offensive scheme in Foxboro. Why wasn’t Charlie Weis able to replicate it elsewhere? He had Brady Quinn...the wrong Brady. The system thing is always a fun hypothetical. Montana and Steve Young were in a system. Both showed special qualities throughout their career. They would have been good elsewhere if the scheme was competent. HOFers because the West Coast offense maximized their talent. Why weren’t Jim Druckenmiller, Elvis Grbac or Jeff Garcia enshrined?
 
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#412
#412
The "GOAT" debate is always fun, no matter what sport or position. And, it's impossible to be definitive.
For me, after looking at wins, records, championships, MVP's, etc............it boils down to "Who plays the best in the biggest moments on the biggest stage." As QB's go, It's Tom Brady. It pains me to say it! Next would be Montana.
 
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#413
#413
lifeisdeep said:
You truly are a master of insight. I had no idea that somehow throwing for 249 yards and losing is better than throwing for 348 yards and winning. Maybe they should just do away with the whole points-scored thing and just go by QB rating to decide games.

Silly points totals are so objective, whereas we have that unassailable QB rating that of course is what determines who goes to the Super Bowl. Silly Tom Brady scoring those two TDs in the first half, thinking they would take him to the Super Bowl, while Mahomes was getting shut out in said first half but dominating Brady in the all-important QB rating. Mahomes was also quite brilliant with all those off-target throws, knowing someone at ESPN would give him a better QB rating nonetheless, while that worthless Brady futilely marched his team down the field in OT with all those lasers on third-and-ten, those pointless passes by such an inferior QB, toiling away in vain trying to get that QB rating.
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Look at the interceptions, Einstein.

For reference, that is where a QB completes a pass to the wrong team.
 
#414
#414
lifeisdeep said:
Don't let facts get in the way of your slander of Brady:

A reporter for the Boston Herald originated the story about the Patriots taping Rams practices - three months later, the same paper printed a retraction:

www.thetomaselie.com

Here's an article about Deflategate from no less than Sports Illustrated claiming that the Patriots are exonerated by simple science (don't read it if you get offended by an MIT professor taking away your reason to discredit the GOAT):
Science says Patriots never tampered footballs
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The only meddling with the footballs was to inflate to minimum allowable pressure in the locker room. After that, they lose pressure when they get colder......had it been a 28 degree day, they would have been nearly flat.
 
#415
#415
Alex10 said:
My take on it is that Brady gets the honor because of playoff wins and Super Bowls. I don’t think he is/was a better qb than manning but he was lucky enough to play in a much better situation his whole career.... manning had to carry his teams... Brady has always been surrounded by a great cast and probably the greatest nfl coach of all time... had manning played under belichick his whole career I have no doubts he would have as many Super Bowls as Brady, conversely had Brady played for those same colt teams he doesn’t have any more Super Bowls than manning, I honestly doubt he would have any. So yes Brady gets the GOAT award but not because he is the better talent, but because he was the beneficiary of much better circumstances his entire career.
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Manning started his career with Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James. Bob Sanders.

Please tell me, aside from Randy Moss' short stint in NE, who have been Bradys best weapons during his career in NE? Obviously hes had Gronk. But the point is Brady has very rarely had elite WRs to throw to and never that I can recall had an elite RB to take the pressure off of him.


I hate the Pats and Brady but to say Brady has always had a better supporting cast is wrong imo. What makes Brady the goat is that hes done what hes done in large part without elite talent around him.
 
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#416
#416
82_VOL_83 said:
The only meddling with the footballs was to inflate to minimum allowable pressure in the locker room. After that, they lose pressure when they get colder......had it been a 28 degree day, they would have been nearly flat.
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Funny how it was only cold on the NE sideline....
 
#417
#417
K-town Vol Fan said:
Manning started his career with Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James. Bob Sanders.

Please tell me, aside from Randy Moss' short stint in NE, who have been Bradys best weapons during his career in NE? Obviously hes had Gronk. But the point is Brady has very rarely had elite WRs to throw to and never that I can recall had an elite RB to take the pressure off of him.


I hate the Pats and Brady but to say Brady has always had a better supporting cast is wrong imo. What makes Brady the goat is that hes done what hes done in large part without elite talent around him.
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For the most part, Brady has always had a better coaching staff and nearly always had a better defense (certainly earlier in his career) than Manning.

As for offense, they both have been victims of their own abilities. They both made skill position players look better than they really were, which made it impossible to keep them all under the salary cap.
 
#418
#418
No one outside of the Tennessee fan base even recognizes this as a debate anymore, and I'm not even sure why UT fans are still hung up on it tbh. Brady is the best to ever play. 9 super bowl appearances, possibly about to have 6 rings, will be at or near the top of nearly every significant statistical category when he hangs it up, and he's done it with mostly castaways at the skill positions with the only honest exceptions being Randy Moss for a year and Gronk who's injured half the damn time. I don't care how much of a genius you think Bill Belichick is, Brady is the goat.

Hell, even the defenses he's had haven't been super talented, although they were very good early on. How many HOF'ers have there actually been? Maybe Richard Seymour and Ty Law from back in the day?
 
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#420
#420
K-town Vol Fan said:
Manning started his career with Reggie Wayne, Marvin Harrison, Edgerrin James. Bob Sanders.

Please tell me, aside from Randy Moss' short stint in NE, who have been Bradys best weapons during his career in NE? Obviously hes had Gronk. But the point is Brady has very rarely had elite WRs to throw to and never that I can recall had an elite RB to take the pressure off of him.


I hate the Pats and Brady but to say Brady has always had a better supporting cast is wrong imo. What makes Brady the goat is that hes done what hes done in large part without elite talent around him.
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Everyone keeps honing I’m on offensive weapons... I’m talking about the overall team... patriots always had a far superior defense and a superior game plan.. Brady didn’t have to throw for 400 yards a game to win. I’m not saying Brady was a game manager, Brady is a great QB and deserves the honor because of the post season, I just don’t think it is as cut and dry as most make it. If you put manning with those same pats over his career I believe manning has as much if not more success than Brady. It’s all hypothetical so doesn’t matter anyway I just don’t go by the thought process of “ brady has more post season wins so automatically he is the betterQB.” I believe there were other factors that were in Brady’s favor. Either way whatever I’ve already discussed this more than I are to
 
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#423
#423
OrangeByBirth said:
It is, has been, and will be a generational discussion. Johnny Unitas, Fran Tarkenton, YA Tittle, Bart Starr, and others have been involved in similar comparisons for decades. It always goes back to the league standard at that time.
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It also goes back to fan bias. lol Peyton will always have a spot in our hearts, no matter what. Brady is like Saban. Just go away. lol
 
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#424
#424
Pepe said:
Yours is the best evidence in this argument
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Then it’s a pretty crappy argument. Didn’t make the playoffs. Just because Belichick drafted and developed a better backup didn’t make Brady less a player or better.
 
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