Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#301
#301
WiseOlVol said:
Until somebody (it won't be Brady) gets to 5 NFL MVPs and 7 All-Pros, it's PManning.
These are individual awards.
The GOAT is, by necessity, an individual.

You'll say Brady has played on 5 NFL Championship teams and therefore he's the GOAT.
These necessarily are team accomplishments.
100 people get Super Bowl rings.
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Elway had one MVP. Totally obliterates your argument. Popularity contest.
 
#302
#302
WiseOlVol said:
Until somebody (it won't be Brady) gets to 5 NFL MVPs and 7 All-Pros, it's PManning.
These are individual awards.
The GOAT is, by necessity, an individual.

You'll say Brady has played on 5 NFL Championship teams and therefore he's the GOAT.
These necessarily are team accomplishments.
100 people get Super Bowl rings.
Click to expand...

Based on this logic, Wuerffel was a better college QB than Manning
 
#303
#303
Just curious. How many people responding pro or con on Brady actually like him as a person? I wonder how much this sways our thinking.
 
#305
#305
dcm3w said:
What was comical and sad is that when the Broncos reaped the benefits of a superior defense is when Peyton lost his physical ability to play the game. Just imagine MVP Manning and the SB Bronco's defense together...wouldve been legendary.

There's no right or wrong in this debate. Some only see SBs and some only see regular season stats. But my only point for Peyton over Brady is that Peyton was a bigger asset. Cassel did well with the Patriots when he was injured, I think to a 10 win season. Then players like Jimmy G, Brissette, and Mallet looked like franchise players but it was all a front for the ingenuity of Bill.
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He was a bigger asset and that's why he's got 5 NFL MVPs and 7 All-Pros.
All but 2 years, he had to drag an average to bad Defense along.
 
#306
#306
PhoenixAZVol said:
Just curious. How many people responding pro or con on Brady actually like him as a person? I wonder how much this sways our thinking.
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Already stated...hate him. My wife knows little about football...hates him by osmosis. Man cave is a shrine to Peyton Manning. Brady’s better.
 
#309
#309
PhoenixAZVol said:
There were fewer teams back then which means the players had to be better and the competition was more intense. There are so many teams today that many lesser players make the nfl who wouldn’t have in years past. The old championships were absolutely like the super bowl - the best teams in those days.

How about a modern team that plays against three other teams in its division that are never above.500. Does that matter?
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In 1958 the NY Giants won the NFL championship after going 9-3 in the regular season. 5 of their 9 regular season wins came against teams that went no better than 4-7-1. Two of their 3 losses were against teams than finished 2-9-1.

And it's that way all through the '50s......you might want to do a little research before shooting your mouth off in complete ignorance.

The competition was NOWHERE near as tough as it is now. And there were FEWER truly GREAT PLAYERS back then, too.

Here endeth the lesson!
 
#310
#310
WiseOlVol said:
He was a bigger asset and that's why he's got 5 NFL MVPs and 7 All-Pros.
All but 2 years, he had to drag an average to bad Defense along.
Click to expand...

Couldn’t drag them enough for a playoff win in his first several tries. Got bested by NFL greats Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Jay Fiedler and Billy Volek along the way.
 
#311
#311
butchna said:
Already stated...hate him. My wife knows little about football...hates him by osmosis. Man cave is a shrine to Peyton Manning. Brady’s better.
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This is bizarre. It sounds like you would defend him to your death yet you hate him. Most interesting.
 
#312
#312
Yes...Starr certainly didn't face very much difficulty handing the ball off to Jim Taylor and Paul Hornung in their glory days. That's 2 HOF RBs he fed the ball to the majority of the time.

Who has Brady had in as RB over his tenure? It's just stupidity and being totally obtuse to the facts...
 
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#313
#313
PhoenixAZVol said:
If it was a 48 yard fg I don’t think he came close to driving them the length of the field.
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For the time remaining and his field position when the drive started? Not to mention the stakes involved? And Vinatieri’s clutchness? I think it was.
 
#314
#314
butchna said:
Couldn’t drag them enough for a playoff win in his first several tries. Got bested by NFL greats Chad Pennington, Mark Sanchez, Jay Fiedler and Billy Volek along the way.
Click to expand...

And don't forget Joe Flacco, too after setting all them regular season records......
 
#315
#315
PhoenixAZVol said:
This is bizarre. It sounds like you would defend him to your death yet you hate him. Most interesting.
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Not bizarre at all...if you’re capable of objectivity. Your death remark meets the definition tho. 🤨
 
#318
#318
butchna said:
Elway had one MVP. Totally obliterates your argument. Popularity contest.
Click to expand...

You're on an island.

When Manning retired, only Unitas, JBrown and Favre had 3 NFL MVPs.
Nobody had 4.
Manning had 5.
That is, in 5 of his 16 years, he was the Most Valuable Player (GOAT) in the league.
An untouchable record.
Brady got 3rd AFTER Manning retired.

And it's accentuated by 7 times All-Pro.
That is, in 7 of his 16 years, he was the Greatest QB in the league.
Unitas and Luckman had 5.
Brady got 3rd AFTER Manning retired.
7 is untouchable too.

If much of the Pats success was attributable to Brady, he'd have more than only 3 of each.
The lack of more tells you what everyone knows: he's a good QB on a great team but not in Manning's class.
 
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#319
#319
MikeVol44 said:
In 1958 the NY Giants won the NFL championship after going 9-3 in the regular season. 5 of their 9 regular season wins came against teams that went no better than 4-7-1. Two of their 3 losses were against teams than finished 2-9-1.

And it's that way all through the '50s......you might want to do a little research before shooting your mouth off in complete ignorance.

The competition was NOWHERE near as tough as it is now. And there were FEWER truly GREAT PLAYERS back then, too.

Here endeth the lesson!
Click to expand...

Asinine argument. The rules are also vastly different today. Thats why the "GOAT" argument is merely an opinion and cannot be truly stated.
 
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#320
#320
butchna said:
Good one. Peyton flopped major in that one. And his defense was very good that year.
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Hogwash.
Only had 2 good Ds in 16 years.
That year was not one of them.
Manning had salted the game away until his SS got beat deep on a hail mary.
Happened a dozen times in playoffs.
 
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