Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

#251
#251
WiseOlVol said:
These are the reasons PManning has 5 NFL MVPs, 7 All-Pros and is GOAT.
He had the best season any QB ever had in 2013, setting 4 untouchable records, winning NFL MVP (best player in the league) and All-Pro (best QB in the league).
He carried the 28th best D to the Super Bowl (w journeyman John Fox as HC).
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And got rung up...as in dominated. Brady’s never been out of an important game before the first quarter even ended. Scratch that. Against Atlanta. Scratch that...won it anyway. 😉
 
#253
#253
WiseOlVol said:
These are the reasons PManning has 5 NFL MVPs, 7 All-Pros and is GOAT.
He had the best season any QB ever had in 2013, setting 4 untouchable records, winning NFL MVP (best player in the league) and All-Pro (best QB in the league).
He carried the 28th best D to the Super Bowl (w journeyman John Fox as HC).
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And was destroyed in the superbowl while putting up 9 points.
 
#254
#254
PhoenixAZVol said:
Whoever the catcher was on babe Ruth’s Yankees teams when they won all of those World Series is the greatest catcher of all time.
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Yogi Berra won 10.
Brainwashed by the mockingbird media, uncritical thinkers believe that Brady is GOAT because he plays for a dynasty.
 
#257
#257
WiseOlVol said:
The question was, given that several QBs have better post-season records, what else does Brady have to commend him as GOAT?
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Your interpretation of “better”. Since it’s not overall postseason that we’re really talking about but SUPER BOWL/Championships, the fact that he’s bested each one of your examples in appearances AND championships (since we’re talking NFL)? I’ll go with that.
 
#260
#260
WiseOlVol said:
The question was, given that several QBs have better post-season records, what else does Brady have to commend him as GOAT?
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Brady has 29 postseason wins as a QB. Montana is #2 with 16.

If the Patriots win the Super Bowl, he'll have as many playoff wins as Montana #2 (16) and Bradshaw #3 (14) combined.

What's this better postseason record you speak of?
 
#263
#263
I keep saying team and defense is what matters in winning it all. If you look at scoring defense, then over 90 to 95% of the time the winning team has a top 10 scoring defense. Brady has had that 14 times including this year. Manning had that 6 times, 4 with the Colts and 2 with Broncos.
 
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#264
#264
MikeVol44 said:
Not hardly, sir. You need to guess again.... Graham NEVER played in a SB....his seasons ended with NFL championships, which, as I said before, are equivalent to the AFC/NFC Championships in today's game. Brady's record in those games is essentially equal to Graham's.

Otto Graham played on a team with a HOF coach in Paul Brown, and alongside 8 other HOF players, one of which was Marion Motley, one of the best--if not THE BEST RB in the NFL from 1946-1953.

Bart Starr played on a team alongside 12 Hall of Famers and arguably the greatest coach of the game.

Now honestly, sir....just how many players from the Patriots during Brady's run are currently in the HOF or are going to make the HOF?
I'll guarantee you there Ain't going to be 8 of 'em. And Randy Moss is in the HOF for his career at Minnesota--Brady had him for 1 year....

Get a dern grip ......

PM may be the best DOME QB to ever play the game.... but take him out of the Dome in the post-season and he was nothing better than average....and that's just the truth.
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There were fewer teams back then which means the players had to be better and the competition was more intense. There are so many teams today that many lesser players make the nfl who wouldn’t have in years past. The old championships were absolutely like the super bowl - the best teams in those days.

How about a modern team that plays against three other teams in its division that are never above.500. Does that matter?
 
#266
#266
butchna said:
And got rung up...as in dominated. Brady’s never been out of an important game before the first quarter even ended. Scratch that. Against Atlanta. Scratch that...won it anyway. 😉
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Sorry but it was not just Manning. That entire team got punched in the mouth and didn't respond. 88 played soft or scared agreed he got lit up. Once again, top flight defense.
 
#267
#267
butchna said:
Your interpretation of “better”. Since it’s not overall postseason that we’re really talking about but SUPER BOWL/Championships, the fact that he’s bested each one of your examples in appearances AND championships (since we’re talking NFL)? I’ll go with that.
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Graham: 10 League Championships (in 10 years).
Brady: 8 League Championships (so far) (19 years).
This isn't complicated math.

Brady is 5-3 (62.5%).
Graham 7-3 (70%).
Star 5-1 (83%).
Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman 100%.
 
#268
#268
PhoenixAZVol said:
There were fewer teams back then which means the players had to be better and the competition was more intense. There are so many teams today that many lesser players make the nfl who wouldn’t have in years past. The old championships were absolutely like the super bowl - the best teams in those days.

How about a modern team that plays against three other teams in its division that are never above.500. Does that matter?
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If you’re going to suggest playing against the athletic, supercharged freaks of today is EASIER? Then you’re not taking this seriously and I can’t view you as such.
 
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#269
#269
spyfish007 said:
Sorry but it was not just Manning. That entire team got punched in the mouth and didn't respond. 88 played soft or scared agreed he got lit up. Once again, top flight defense.
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Should have been able to score. Peyton would fold when punched in the mouth. See that Jets playoff game also. No examples of that with Brady.
 
#270
#270
WiseOlVol said:
Graham: 10 League Championships (in 10 years).
Brady: 8 League Championships (so far) (19 years).
This isn't complicated math.

Brady is 5-3 (62.5%).
Graham 7-3 (70%).
Star 5-1 (83%).
Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman 100%.
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Graham-3 NFL titles. That All-American League was glorified sandlot football. Made the Super Bowl twice as much as any of your other candidates...as well as Manning. Better.
 
#271
#271
butchna said:
If you’re going to suggest playing against the athletic, supercharged freaks of today is EASIER? Then you’re not taking this seriously and I can’t view you as such.
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I don't really agree with this particular argument from Phoenix. The problem is just because they had fewer teams doesn't mean you had the best players. Maybe the sport didn't attract the best talent back then... Hard to know.

Yes I am not addressing the other part of the argument about how freakish the talent is now, because the above makes it irrelevant.
 
#272
#272
99gator said:
Brady has 29 postseason wins as a QB. Montana is #2 with 16.

If the Patriots win the Super Bowl, he'll have as many playoff wins as Montana #2 (16) and Bradshaw #3 (14) combined.

What's this better postseason record you speak of?
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Bart Starr 9-1 in Post-Season (.900). The Gold Standard.
Brady: 74%. Not so much.
 
#273
#273
butchna said:
Should have been able to score. Peyton would fold when punched in the mouth. See that Jets playoff game also. No examples of that with Brady.
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Why do you seem to think that only Peyton got punched in the mouth? Meaning his teammates are being left out.
 
#274
#274
butchna said:
There’s no science to it. Some will claim Dan Marino is the GOAT. There’s no one wrong in an opinion.
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I do agree with you in this. What I dislike is the idea that the GOAT is a foregone conclusion and it is punctuated based on playoffs or even super bowl wins.
 
#275
#275
WiseOlVol said:
Bart Starr 9-1 in Post-Season (.900). The Gold Standard.
Brady: 74%. Not so much.
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29>9 Brady’s also been greater longer...as well as simply greater. Lombardi’s Packer’s lived and died with the Sweep. A trained aardvark coulda won games at QB for them. There you go being naive again. 😉
 
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