Will this finally settle the Manning - Brady debate?

WiseOlVol

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The stats are really close. The metric you keep going by is all pro and mvps chosen by the press. The same press that says Brady is the goat. The big question is who is #2. Half of the that same press say Manning and the other half say someone else. We all love Manning, but any reputable source out there says Brady is the GOAT.
History books say Brady was not NFL MVP or All-Pro 16 times in 19 years.

At 5 MVPs and 7 All-Pros -- both untouchable -- Manning is the most highly decorated player in the history of the league.

If Brady was GOAT, he's be this year's MVP. He got ZERO votes. The press does not say he's the GOAT.
 

crparker21

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History books say Brady was not NFL MVP or All-Pro 16 times in 19 years.

At 5 MVPs and 7 All-Pros -- both untouchable -- Manning is the most highly decorated player in the history of the league.

If Brady was GOAT, he's be this year's MVP. He got ZERO votes. The press does not say he's the GOAT.

Find a reputable source that has done a story on the greatest QB of all time that doesn't have Brady #1.
 

volfannbama

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I think that everyone who has posted in the thread has agreed that Peyton is the GOAT.

They are just discussing who is going to come in second place. Perhaps, Brady should be in that conversation. However, if Bud Adams/Jeff Fisher had drafted him, Brady would have played in under five playoff games.
Maybe if fisher has drafted PM he would have played in under 5 playoff games?
 

tennbjj

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History books say Brady was not NFL MVP or All-Pro 16 times in 19 years.

At 5 MVPs and 7 All-Pros -- both untouchable -- Manning is the most highly decorated player in the history of the league.
Using just those two numbers I agree, but untouchable is taking it a bit far at least on the All Pro statement. The MVP skews towards offense in particular the QB, which is certainly understandable. But who was anymore valuable during the 1980s than Jerry Rice? Exactly zero Associated Press MVP awards, so that tends to cool my perception of the award.

Joe Montana still my guy all day
 

WiseOlVol

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Find a reputable source that has done a story on the greatest QB of all time that doesn't have Brady #1.
NFL Top 100: Tom Brady Says Peyton Manning Is the 'Greatest of All Time'

When asked "What is it about Peyton that makes him such a great player?,” Brady responded by saying:
"Everything.
To me, he's the greatest of all-time.
What he's accomplished and the way that he studies, the way he prepares. He's really got a killer instinct too. I've been fortunate to be around him on a lot of occasions and we always hit it off; we have a great relationship and he's a friend of mine and someone that I always watch and admire because he always wants to improve, he always wants to get better and he doesn't settle for anything less than the best.
So when you watch the best and you're able to learn from the best, hopefully that helps me get better."

The fans seemed to concur.
NFL Network's text vote regarding "Who Is the Greatest Quarterback of All-Time?" brought forth an overwhelming amount of support for the only four-time league MVP in NFL history.
 

WiseOlVol

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Using just those two numbers I agree, but untouchable is taking it a bit far at least on the All Pro statement. The MVP skews towards offense in particular the QB, which is certainly understandable. But who was anymore valuable during the 1980s than Jerry Rice? Exactly zero MVP awards, so that tends to cool my perception of the award.

Joe Montana still my guy all day
Rice a WR.
We're comparing QBs.
Brady was in the NFL when PM won all 5 of this MVPs and all 7 of his 1st-Team All-Pros.
 

tennbjj

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NFL Top 100: Tom Brady Says Peyton Manning Is the 'Greatest of All Time'

When asked "What is it about Peyton that makes him such a great player?,” Brady responded by saying:
"Everything.
To me, he's the greatest of all-time.
What he's accomplished and the way that he studies, the way he prepares. He's really got a killer instinct too. I've been fortunate to be around him on a lot of occasions and we always hit it off; we have a great relationship and he's a friend of mine and someone that I always watch and admire because he always wants to improve, he always wants to get better and he doesn't settle for anything less than the best.
So when you watch the best and you're able to learn from the best, hopefully that helps me get better."

The fans seemed to concur.
NFL Network's text vote regarding "Who Is the Greatest Quarterback of All-Time?" brought forth an overwhelming amount of support for the only four-time league MVP in NFL history.
JULY 4, 2011
 

crparker21

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NFL Top 100: Tom Brady Says Peyton Manning Is the 'Greatest of All Time'

When asked "What is it about Peyton that makes him such a great player?,” Brady responded by saying:
"Everything.
To me, he's the greatest of all-time.
What he's accomplished and the way that he studies, the way he prepares. He's really got a killer instinct too. I've been fortunate to be around him on a lot of occasions and we always hit it off; we have a great relationship and he's a friend of mine and someone that I always watch and admire because he always wants to improve, he always wants to get better and he doesn't settle for anything less than the best.
So when you watch the best and you're able to learn from the best, hopefully that helps me get better."

The fans seemed to concur.
NFL Network's text vote regarding "Who Is the Greatest Quarterback of All-Time?" brought forth an overwhelming amount of support for the only four-time league MVP in NFL history.

Recent article, come on. Bleacher report is not reputable either.
 

lifeisdeep

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Several Manning fans on this thread have put forth the argument that Brady's success is all about the great defenses he has played with. So I did some quick research.

Just since 2010:

The Steelers have had a top-10 scoring defense 5 times; three of those they were top-5, twice top-2. They have a QB that most people say is a lock for the HOF. Said QB has never had a season when he didn't have better offensive weapons, by a long shot, than Brady...0 Super Bowl wins since 2010.

The Baltimore Ravens have had a top-10 scoring defense 7 different times; five of those they were top-5; three times they were top-3. While most people don't think of the QB they started up until this season as HOF material, he was the highest-paid player in the league at one point...1 Super Bowl win since 2010.

The Chiefs have had a top-10 scoring defense 4 times, with a QB who made the Pro Bowl three times and led the league in passer rating in 2017...0 Super Bowl wins.

The Seahawks have had a top-10 scoring defense 7 times, including five times in the top three, and three times #1; six of those seasons were with a QB regularly talked about by analysts as being one of the four or five best in the league...1 Super Bowl win.

The Patriots have had a top-10 scoring defense 7 times; only one of those were they top-5. And they have more Super Bowl wins than these four other franchises, all of which regularly had dominant defenses, combined in that time period.

Over his eighteen-year career, Manning had a top-10 scoring defense seven times, five with Indy and two with Denver; all of those years he had vastly better offensive weapons than Brady...2 Super Bowl wins, for a percentage of 29% comparing championships to years with top-10 defense.

Thus far, seventeen years into his career, Brady has had a top-10 scoring defense 13 times...6 Super Bowl wins, for a percentage of 46%.
 
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HoptownVol

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Several Manning fans on this thread have put forth the argument that Brady's success is all about the great defenses he has played with. So I did some quick research.

Just since 2010:
The Patriots have had a top-10 scoring defense 7 times; only one of those were they top-5. And they have more Super Bowl wins than these four other franchises, all of which regularly had dominant defenses, combined in that time period.
Really not an argument anymore, even Tony Dungy, Reggie Wayne, and the Indy Star called it for Brady.
 

JFBanicki

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See I can’t give Brady any credit when he always had to have a big lead or relied on the kicker to win his super bowls.
The ones he has lost are the ones where he had to go down the field and get the TD for the win. He had no problems when he only had to get into FG range but was never able to take them to the endzone.

That doesn’t even begin to get into all the rule changes and ignoring of known cheating that has taken place throughout his career to allow him to win as much as he has.
If he played 30 years ago I doubt he wins one. I also don’t think he’d have a single title on any other team.

Now I also believe Brady has pushed things too far with his buddies at the NFL by not retiring after they just handed him the 6th ring, )not a single D penalty on the pats til late in the third???) with the story book ending of winning it against the team he beat for the first. I see a VERY ROUGH future for Brady from here out. He will be subject to the same hits and probably worse that every other QB has to deal with and his buddy Roger willbalso turn the refs the other way now to send the message he should’ve retired.
 

HoptownVol

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See I can’t give Brady any credit when he always had to have a big lead or relied on the kicker to win his super bowls.
The ones he has lost are the ones where he had to go down the field and get the TD for the win. He had no problems when he only had to get into FG range but was never able to take them to the endzone.

That doesn’t even begin to get into all the rule changes and ignoring of known cheating that has taken place throughout his career to allow him to win as much as he has.
If he played 30 years ago I doubt he wins one. I also don’t think he’d have a single title on any other team.

Now I also believe Brady has pushed things too far with his buddies at the NFL by not retiring after they just handed him the 6th ring, )not a single D penalty on the pats til late in the third???) with the story book ending of winning it against the team he beat for the first. I see a VERY ROUGH future for Brady from here out. He will be subject to the same hits and probably worse that every other QB has to deal with and his buddy Roger willbalso turn the refs the other way now to send the message he should’ve retired.

Oh brother, I don't even know how to respond to this whacky post. You need to get the antennae replaced on your tinfoil hat because not even Alex Jones could come up with some notion as ridiculous as refering to the goons in the leagues office as "his buddies at the NFL." That made me laugh actually.

OK before I obliterate the rest of your post, here's a stat for you. Brady has been sacked 539 times in his career, thats 196 more times on his back than Peyton, yet at 41 he's still here. I suppose you've got some sort of bizarre conspiracy theory about that too? I suppose his "buddy Roger" choreographed all that just to make it look like Brady was taking the hits.

Now to this...." known cheating that has taken place throughout his career to allow him to win as much as he has." Are there any actual NFL fans on this board? What known cheating are you talking about, you think Brady engineered Spygate, which is still not outlawed in the NFL by the way. In fact there has never been such an overblown incident in the league until Deflategate, when 4/5 under inflated balls from the Colts were ignored so "Brady's buddies at the NFL" could conspire to have Brady suspended with ZERO evidence that Brady or the team managers had anything to do with the readings they took during halftime, which were not recorded and were taken using different gauges that were not calibrated. Then in the ensuing aftermath science intervened and proved under the Ideal Gas Law exactly WHY those balls were giving those readings after spending the last few hours in 42° weather. The league never proved Brady was complicit, the league is not interested in fairness or being right, they are only interested in enforcement. And as long as that jerk Goodell is commissioner they will never admit they were wrong about anything.
 

Behr

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Oh brother, I don't even know how to respond to this whacky post. You need to get the antennae replaced on your tinfoil hat because not even Alex Jones could come up with some notion as ridiculous as refering to the goons in the leagues office as "his buddies at the NFL." That made me laugh actually.

OK before I obliterate the rest of your post, here's a stat for you. Brady has been sacked 539 times in his career, thats 196 more times on his back than Peyton, yet at 41 he's still here. I suppose you've got some sort of bizarre conspiracy theory about that too? I suppose his "buddy Roger" choreographed all that just to make it look like Brady was taking the hits.

Now to this...." known cheating that has taken place throughout his career to allow him to win as much as he has." Are there any actual NFL fans on this board? What known cheating are you talking about, you think Brady engineered Spygate, which is still not outlawed in the NFL by the way. In fact there has never been such an overblown incident in the league until Deflategate, when 4/5 under inflated balls from the Colts were ignored so "Brady's buddies at the NFL" could conspire to have Brady suspended with ZERO evidence that Brady or the team managers had anything to do with the readings they took during halftime, which were not recorded and were taken using different gauges that were not calibrated. Then in the ensuing aftermath science intervened and proved under the Ideal Gas Law exactly WHY those balls were giving those readings after spending the last few hours in 42° weather. The league never proved Brady was complicit, the league is not interested in fairness or being right, they are only interested in enforcement. And as long as that jerk Goodell is commissioner they will never admit they were wrong about anything.
Thank God, if you had you'd still be typing.
 

Behr

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Thats hilarious, are you a professional comedian? You should be on America's Got Talent or something, you're really gifted.
You're post was funny too, I just used less words.

I do wonder if anyone in this thread actually thinks they are changing others opinion. Like after reading the other 1145 posts, someone read your wall of text and thought "me and my two kids Payton and Peyton always thought Manning was the GOAT, but Hops post changed our mines, Brady is the GOAT an he never deflated no balls either!!!!"

Haha, just joking man. We're all guilty of something here.
 

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