Why does it matter if we fire him now?

[JMSqb11]

8 weeks in, I don't think we're going to playcall our way out of this.

Sure you can. Are you really gonna say our running game isn’t strong enough to run through Southern Miss, Vandy, and Mizzou?

Vandy and Mizzou can’t stop anyone running the ball.

 

[CAVPUT]

I agree, but this is also my concern. Who is Currie targeting? Has he even reached out to anyone? Most of the active coaches that wouldn't be a repeat of what we’ve had for the last 10 years and that would please the fan base really have no reason to leave their respective schools.

If Currie were spouting to the media about the contacts he's making, I'd be convinced we hired the wrong man. Do we want candidates to think they are anything but our first and only choice? You want a man to uproot his family and make a move like this and you want to sell him on this job. You want him to believe he's your only choice. Kinda like dating. You may have others, but you love the one you're with and she's special and the only one. On top of that, the guys we are realistically targeting are currently employed. Delicate situation. The less that's known about what Currie is or is not doing the better.

 

[JMSqb11]

I also think people are scared to fire Butch now because people would be afraid of having a Coach O effect if we won out from here and finish 7-5

 

[Freak]

At this point in the season the offense is the offense. There isn't time to change much. You think if Butch isn't in the stadium Larry Scott will suddenly become a great playcaller?

This. This. This.

All of these assistant coaches aren't going to suddenly become Bill Belichick.

He!! Freak I don't know. Do something even if it ain't right... Haaa..

Let me propose a scenario;

You are the AD. What do you do? You're options are:

1. Fire Butch tomorrow.
2. Fire Butch after NEXT loss.
3. Fire Butch at season end.

I'm pretty emotional about Tennessee football so I probably would have fired him already. I don't know that would be best for the program, but it would make me feel a little better. lol.

But if you know Gruden is your guy why not give him jump on things

I don't think ANY new coach not already on the staff would want to walk in at this point in the season and take over. That wouldn't be fair to anyone. Is there even any precedent for that?

 

[GreyWolf1129]

8 weeks in, I don't think we're going to playcall our way out of this.

I beg to differ, Sir.

Spider 2 Y Banana.

Go Vols.

 

[DrTNT]

In your opinion, why is it imperative that we fire Butch immediately (during the season) as opposed to the end of the year? In other words, what does Tennessee gain in that scenario?

Let's just say I'm curious for research purposes.

Discuss.

I believe there are multiple ways to approach answering this. There are 3 categories of people that one must consider when discussing the HC of the UT football program:

1.) current players - those who stand to be most impacted by any decision that is made. I believe if you let Butch go now it says to them, “we’re aware of the current situation & we’re looking to improve to collegiate athletics experience. You deserve to be in a position to win games & we’re not seeing that currently.”

2.) recruits - “you are well aware of the prideful tradition of the university of Tennessee, in fact that rich tradition is a big part of the reason many of you plan to come to this university. We want to make your experience here a successful one. We want to see you conpeting for championships! What we have seen this year is unacceptable & we are taking steps to correct that.”

3.) fans - “First, we greatly appreciate you loyalty & support. We are also well aware that the last several years have been disappointing we have not been to an SEC Championship in far too long, yet you remain loyal. You spend your hard earned money on tickets, & merchandise. You wear your orange & white with a tremendous amount of pride & and we great appreciate your loyalty & support during this transition period. Thank you!”

One could make the arguement that Jones himself would be the 4th entity to get a message from this simply acknowledging that being in the situation he’s been in this year with the writing in the wall & telling him thank you & not forcing him to continue flailing away as a lame duck coach on the sideline. Sort of an end the suffering move for him.


But, those are all just my thoughts...

 

[Cod]

1.) it's a statement from our new AD that this product is not acceptable
2.) we don't fall as far behind other teams in the coaching search
3.) head start on recruiting
4.) Florida did it
5.) it would make me feel a little bit better

This..... we’ve not done it right in the past!

 

[CAVPUT]

8 weeks in, I don't think we're going to playcall our way out of this.

Yep...at this point in the season, we are what we are.

 

[Volfan76]

You don't think Tennessee is working on a replacement already? What limitations do we have, whether he's still here or not?

You think recruiting improves with a vacant head coaching position?

Absolutely it does. Why else does every competent team do it early as possible?

 

[kid50]

I've thought about this a lot and ultimately it doesn't matter when we fire him as long as we do. I'll preface this by saying I hate that Butch is still the coach of this team, but unless Currie or anyone else thinks we have a better chance to win a current coach on staff Currie has done the right thing by not firing him yet. For a few reasons:

1. The patience Currie has shown with Butch by not firing him yet may earn us some goodwill in the coaching search. Think about it - Florida just fired their coach who won the East his first two years and had 3(?) SEC wins this year and tried to do so with cause. Currie hasn't fired a coach who has never won the East while having the better team on two occasions and hasn't won an SEC game this year. Which AD do you think coaches will want to work for? I think this is a somewhat bad look for UF. It shows Currie has patience and won't make emotional decisions.
2. If Butch is still the coach and gets us to a bowl game and maybe wins the bowl he will be 4-0 in bowl games with three decent seasons here - years 2-4. This could help him land another job, mitigating some of the buyout we'd have to pay. For him, he could spin as a rebuilding year after losing guys to the NFL. Fire him mid-season, might hurt his chances of landing another HC job, leaving us with the whole buyout.
3. As far as recruiting goes, I think we're screwed no matter what. No one knows what the right thing to do is in terms of the early signing period since we have nothing to compare too. We probably won't be able to lock many recruits down in the early period but that doesn't mean we'll lose them. The new coach will have a chance to keep them on board. The shorter amount of time we go without a coach it's probably best for recruiting though.
4. The only candidates UF gets a jump start are the unemployed ones like Chip Kelly, but as many say, he probably isn't a candidate anyway. We have the head start on the search since we know we've been back-channeling since basically the UGA game. No current coach is going to interview or take a job midseason. We can have the same talks via 3rd party that UF can too.

Like I said in the beginning, if you know someone on this staff can coach better than Butch then fire him ASAP, but if you don't there's sensible reasons why you keep him as the coach then fire him after the season. As some have alluded to, Shoop and Hoke don't like each other so making one the coach and not the other would probably make things worse. Gillespie is probably the best choice then, but how would Scott feel about that? The only thing that matters is hire, not the firing, because we all know he's out at seasons end no matter what.

Sorry for the long post, but I hope this helps your research, Freak.

 

[Catbone]

I thought BruinVol made this thread 😂

 

[Freak]

I believe there are multiple ways to approach answering this. There are 3 categories of people that one must consider when discussing the HC of the UT football program:

1.) current players - those who stand to be most impacted by any decision that is made. I believe if you let Butch go now it says to them, “we’re aware of the current situation & we’re looking to improve to collegiate athletics experience. You deserve to be in a position to win games & we’re not seeing that currently.”

2.) recruits - “you are well aware of the prideful tradition of the university of Tennessee, in fact that rich tradition is a big part of the reason many of you plan to come to this university. We want to make your experience here a successful one. We want to see you conpeting for championships! What we have seen this year is unacceptable & we are taking steps to correct that.”

3.) fans - “First, we greatly appreciate you loyalty & support. We are also well aware that the last several years have been disappointing we have not been to an SEC Championship in far too long, yet you remain loyal. You spend your hard earned money on tickets, & merchandise. You wear your orange & white with a tremendous amount of pride & and we great appreciate your loyalty & support during this transition period. Thank you!”

One could make the arguement that Jones himself would be the 4th entity to get a message from this simply acknowledging that being in the situation he’s been in this year with the writing in the wall & telling him thank you & not forcing him to continue flailing away as a lame duck coach on the sideline. Sort of an end the suffering move for him.


But, those are all just my thoughts...

In regard to 1-3, I just personally don't see that it sends much of a different message whether it's done now or in a few weeks.

As to point 4, if Butch wants out now then that's a different story.

 

[m1al]

I'm pretty emotional about Tennessee football so I probably would have fired him already. I don't know that would be best for the program, but it would make me feel a little better. lol.

 

[Biopsyman]

The fans deserve better

 

[chiwipeterbug]

With any coaching change there will be roster turnover. I just can't see how the next 30 days changes any of that, whether Butch is in charge or an interim.

You may not understand how recruits make their choices.

You may not understand there is a new recruiting dynamic with early signing.

You may not understand, some recruits have made and will make a decision during these last few weeks that they will not change later.

You may not understand that some of those decisions may not be their loss.

It will be ours.

 

[Cornvol]

In your opinion, why is it imperative that we fire Butch immediately (during the season) as opposed to the end of the year? In other words, what does Tennessee gain in that scenario?

Let's just say I'm curious for research purposes.

Discuss.

Gruden May have requested he finish out.

 

[Freak]

Absolutely it does. Why else does every competent team do it early as possible?

Every competent team fires their coach during the season? I don't agree. There are a lot of different circumstances in play and every situation is unique.

I thought BruinVol made this thread 😂

You trying to get banned?

 

[cncchris33]

So your vote is that an assistant could better manage the team for the rest of the season?

I guess my vote is that it doesn't really matter anymore. The damage is done. Keeping him around (if a decision has already been made) only further enrages a fanbase that is fed up with being average, creates further embarrassment in the media with every loss, and gives no confidence that the AD is in touch with the reality of the situation. That may only be the perception, but in this case, perception is sort of reality. Florida was unhappy with their return on their investment and moved quickly and decisively. That move has generally been viewed as brilliant and strong. I haven't seen those words associated with our a athletic brass in a long time.

 

[CAVPUT]

Sure you can. Are you really gonna say our running game isn’t strong enough to run through Southern Miss, Vandy, and Mizzou?

Vandy and Mizzou can’t stop anyone running the ball.

USM will not be a cake walk. They'll put up a fight. Vandy is a bitter rival. We will get their best. We might run on Missouri, but we may not have the luxury or pounding the rock. Mizzou will pass us silly and put up some numbers. Can we score enough? With our respective lines, I'm not all that confident about any remaining games. And no, I haven't forgotten LSU.

 

[Freak]

You may not understand how recruits make their choices.

You may not understand there is a new recruiting dynamic with early signing.

You may not understand, some recruits have made and will make a decision during these last few weeks that they will not change later.

You may not understand that some of those decisions may not be their loss.

It will be ours.

Explain it to me then. You think an assistant as interim, who won't be here in a month, can do something to hold together a recruiting class until the end of the year? I'm not being obstinate. I truly don't understand the thinking.

 

[JMSqb11]

USM will not be a cake walk. They'll put up a fight. Vandy is a bitter rival. We will get their best. We might run on Missouri, but we may not have the luxury or pounding the rock. Mizzou will pass us silly and put up some numbers. Can we score enough? With our respective lines, I'm not all that confident about any remaining games. And no, I haven't forgotten LSU.

LSU is gonna be a rout. Glad I sold my tickets back in the summer as my brother is having his third kid which makes our family do thanksgiving here in DC.

But between Chandler, Kelly, and CFA, we have the talent to line up and run people over. But Butch won’t allow that to happen.

 

[give_him 6]

This is the most level-headed and intelligent thread posted about the current coaching situation that I have seen. Refreshing to not see "sources" quoted.

 

[CAVPUT]

Absolutely it does. Why else does every competent team do it early as possible?

What teams would that be?

 

[spyfish007]

LSU is gonna be a rout. Glad I sold my tickets back in the summer as my brother is having his third kid which makes our family do thanksgiving here in DC.

But between Chandler, Kelly, and CFA, we have the talent to line up and run people over. But Butch won’t allow that to happen.

Sad because LSU under the lights is the game I was must looking forward to all season.....sigh

 

[Freak]

I guess my vote is that it doesn't really matter anymore. The damage is done. Keeping him around (if a decision has already been made) only further enrages a fanbase that is fed up with being average, creates further embarrassment in the media with every loss, and gives no confidence that the AD is in touch with the reality of the situation. That may only be the perception, but in this case, perception is sort of reality. Florida was unhappy with their return on their investment and moved quickly and decisively. That move has generally been viewed as brilliant and strong. I haven't seen those words associated with our a athletic brass in a long time.

I understand your thought process, but I think all that matters is how our AD is viewed in regard to the next hire. It needs to be "brilliant and strong."