Why does it matter if we fire him now?

[FranklinVFL]

Knee jerks are good.

Knee jerk? Are you kidding me? This should have been done way earlier. Especially with everything that was being reported last year in conjunction with this year’s performance.

There is nothing knee jerk about that.

 

[UT_Tix79]

Didn’t read the thread, but here’s my take.

The longer we go without saying anything the more recruits are left in limbo.

If we fire him now, we can start working towards a replacement publicly.

If we stated he would finish the season but would not be retained after that, we could publicly begin working towards a replacement.

Either way, it shows fans and recruits that we are serious about the direction of the team, and are moving forward without Jones. Otherwise it looks like we’re still rolling with Jones and if that’s the case fans and recruits are going to jump off the bandwagon in droves

 

[CAVPUT]

LSU is gonna be a rout. Glad I sold my tickets back in the summer as my brother is having his third kid which makes our family do thanksgiving here in DC.

But between Chandler, Kelly, and CFA, we have the talent to line up and run people over. But Butch won’t allow that to happen.

We have the RBs to be somewhat successful, but the limitation is the OL. That group above all others has been the greatest disappointment this year. Outside of Smith, I'm not impressed. And until we can threaten a defense with the qb running the ball and/or passing it, any team can take away our running game. One dimensional won't cut it at this level.

 

[FranklinVFL]

Currie isn't a stupid man. Why tell a coach he's fired effective at the end of the season? Makes no sense. Might as well just fire him that minute and name the interim and be done with it.

While I hope that is not the case, jury is still out with me on how good Curie will be.

And I agree with the rest. No good comes from that scenario.

 

[chiwipeterbug]

Explain it to me then. You think an assistant as interim, who won't be here in a month, can do something to hold together a recruiting class until the end of the year? I'm not being obstinate. I truly don't understand the thinking.

Is it against the rules to let Butch finish the season, but let recruits know who you have hired for next year?

Have you considered the early signing period has changed the recruiting dynamic from what anyone is used to?

Do you know the unintended consequences of this rule change? Have you considered this rule change?

Do you assume that once we announce a coach late in the process that recruits will leave their commitments to come to Tennessee?

Do you already know that we aren't making a splash hire and it won't matter anyway?

Why are we losing recruits if they secretly know who we are hiring?

If Butch is hemorrhaging Legacy 5 stars why is keeping him instead of making an announcement about a big splash hire better in your opinion?

 

[Vercingetorix]

You may not understand how recruits make their choices.

You may not understand there is a new recruiting dynamic with early signing.

You may not understand, some recruits have made and will make a decision during these last few weeks that they will not change later.

You may not understand that some of those decisions may not be their loss.

It will be ours.

We're going to continue hemorrhaging recruits until the day we name a new permanent coach, no matter when Jones formally gets the axe. Having an interim will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

 

[CAVPUT]

Didn’t read the thread, but here’s my take.

The longer we go without saying anything the more recruits are left in limbo.

If we fire him now, we can start working towards a replacement publicly.

If we stated he would finish the season but would not be retained after that, we could publicly begin working towards a replacement.

Either way, it shows fans and recruits that we are serious about the direction of the team, and are moving forward without Jones. Otherwise it looks like we’re still rolling with Jones and if that’s the case fans and recruits are going to jump off the bandwagon in droves

Again, I just don't get this line of thought. How are we to pursue a coach "publicly"? If the coach is employed, that's just not going to fly. If we publicize our effort and said coach public ally turns us down, every other candidate knows he's a fallback and not the first choice. As UT will need to sell this program and its potential, that's hardly a good start.

As for recruiting, why would keeping the coach and staff these players committed to in the first place lead to defections? Isn't it the uncertainty about the staff who you committed to being removed the reason for kids looking around? The logic escapes me.

 

[FranklinVFL]

Perhaps not formally, but you can agree in principle. Ink it after Butch is gone. Of course, I would be a little leery of a sitting coach who would be doing this during the season. Maybe it's naive on my part and this happens all the time...at least with agents, but I still am not comfortable with it.

With the history our AD has, they’d screw that up as well. You can present all the T&Cs that have already been agreed to and they still find a way to muck it up. (See Gruden 2012 article in TFP.

 

[chiwipeterbug]

We're going to continue hemorrhaging recruits until the day we name a new permanent coach, no matter when Jones formally gets the axe. Having an interim will do nothing to stop the bleeding.

We used to have the #1 class in the SEC.

What are we now?

What is your reasoning for believing a big splash hire wouldn't stop the hemorrhaging or even reverse it?

Is it illegal to announce a big splash hire?

 

[Thunder Good-Oil]

Knee jerk? Are you kidding me? This should have been done way earlier. Especially with everything that was being reported last year in conjunction with this year’s performance.

There is nothing knee jerk about that.

There have been lots of knee jerk opportunities for the individuals in the administration. The dolt fans just get louder with every one that's missed.

 

[CAVPUT]

With the history our AD has, they’d screw that up as well. You can present all the T&Cs that have already been agreed to and they still find a way to muck it up. (See Gruden 2012 article in TFP.

Last I checked, we had a new AD and this will be the first time he's fired and hired a coach as a sittin AD. A bit unfair to lump him in with Hamilton and hart or does that not matter?

 

[chargervol]

1. There is no history of saving recruits by firing the coach early.
It actually gives other schools more time to work on them.

2. The LSU example given on the first page is one of the reasons they don't want to fire him too soon. If the players become attached to the new coach as the head coach, it only causes issues later.

3. It is absolutely about our wants.
I don't want to look at him or listen to him either. But that is not a reason to make a business decision.

I don't think you will change anyone's minds freak but I do agree with you.

 

[o3marine52]

My concern in the impact of recruiting. A coach in limbo/hotseat cannot help

 

[cncchris33]

I understand your thought process, but I think all that matters is how our AD is viewed in regard to the next hire. It needs to be "brilliant and strong."

I agree, but I don't think the actions of our AD to this point have demonstrated those qualities to anyone. That is very concerning to me as a fan.

 

[Vercingetorix]

We used to have the #1 class in the SEC.

What are we now?

What is your reasoning for believing a big splash hire wouldn't stop the hemorrhaging or even reverse it?

Is it illegal to announce a big splash hire?

I take it you're a believer in the Gruden fantasy? I will grant that if you have already hired Gruden or Chip Kelly, then by all means, go ahead and fire Jones and leak your new hire. But the overwhelming likelihood is that our next coach is coaching another team right now, and whether we fire Jones tonight or after the Vandy game, he won't be publicly named until after the regular season is over.

 

[o3marine52]

We used to have the #1 class in the SEC.

What are we now?

What is your reasoning for believing a big splash hire wouldn't stop the hemorrhaging or even reverse it?

Is it illegal to announce a big splash hire?

It’s a big splash hire, and kids today love the flashy “big splash”.

 

[FranklinVFL]

Last I checked, we had a new AD and this will be the first time he's fired and hired a coach as a sittin AD. A bit unfair to lump him in with Hamilton and hart or does that not matter?

Our AD is only one part of many that makes final decisions. To be successful, academic and athletic sides have to be on same page. Cannot remember that occurring here in a long time.

 

[chiwipeterbug]

I take it you're a believer in the Gruden fantasy? I will grant that if you have already hired Gruden or Chip Kelly, then by all means, go ahead and fire Jones and leak your new hire. But the overwhelming likelihood is that our next coach is coaching another team right now, and whether we fire Jones tonight or after the Vandy game, he won't be publicly named until after the regular season is over.

Are you saying that you know we are not getting a big splash hire that will move the needle in the recruiting world?

 

[vol9799]

In your opinion, why is it imperative that we fire Butch immediately (during the season) as opposed to the end of the year? In other words, what does Tennessee gain in that scenario?

Let's just say I'm curious for research purposes.

Discuss.

The reason is it's the best thing for the program long-term.

It's being argued there's too much staff strife to appoint one of them interim. Fine, there are others (Fulmer, etc) who would help out.

What if Butch is the best chance at a bowl. I don't believe that, but even if he were is that really worth what we're about to see in Neyland Saturday?

If Butch coaches the remaining games we'll have 50k unsold tickets and 100k no-shows over the three games. Probably half to two-thirds of those will be protest decisions, not indifference. What does that mean?

1. We're going to see a stadium literally half empty on Saturday where the loudest thing will be the boos. Is that what we want our players enduring? Is that what we want to portray for the nation? Is that what we want our recruits (not just this year's) to see? This Saturday will be ugly.

2. The numbers I quoted above (protest numbers) will cost us roughly $2.8M in AD revenue and that's light if anything. Would a bowl generate $2.8M, not one we'll be going to and not our cut.

Another reason is roster degradation. Doubtful that Butch being there will hold things together. I imagine equal numbers of players on the team think Butch is a clown vs players who believe in him. If anything allowing him to flap in the breeze with no direction from the University just invites both groups to abandon ship because of the uncertainty.

Last reason, is the destruction of the fan base. The UT athletic and academic administration has no credibility with the fan base. Contributors will react to the inaction and will cancel donations and tickets. It will not just be ugly at the games, it will be ugly everywhere. The AD has the opportunity to generate goodwill and positive PR with the right hire, but inaction will only frustrate fans to the point of possibly alienating some fans for life the same way that the firings of Majors and Fulmer did.

To me the trade off isn't even close. There is no reason not to announce it now regardless of how long he coaches. There are ways to do this that will be constructive rather than destructive, but to do nothing is purely destructive.

 

[BleedsOrange11]

I'll throw this one out there since I'm probably not the only one thinking it: We still have no definitive/official statement that Butch won't be back next year, and that scares the ##%%&% out of me.

It's entirely possible (and almost probable) at this point that a decision on Butch's status for next year has been made, and the UT AD is currently going through the coaching search process behind closed doors. But we don't know. I'll agree that waiting until the end of the year (when people can actually publically disclose contacts with coaches that are still currently coaching) and keeping our current coaches engaged in recruiting may be the best bet near-term. But fans will be ancy until we know one way or the other

 

[photovol]

Uhh, could it suggest, contrary to popular believe, that UT does indeed care about it's football program?:hi:

 

[Catbone]

Every competent team fires their coach during the season? I don't agree. There are a lot of different circumstances in play and every situation is unique.



You trying to get banned?

If we keep Butch another week I'll ban myself 🤣

 

[Vercingetorix]

Are you saying that you know we are not getting a big splash hire that will move the needle in the recruiting world?

I don't know anything, of course. But there are two unicorn coaches out there who aren't currently employed, and with all due respect to the Grudenites, I'm highly skeptical that we have an agreement in place with either of them. Everyone else already has a job, and we're not going to start telling recruits we have an agreement with any of them until their current season is over. In other words, firing Butch (as satisfying as it would be) won't do anything to stop the bleeding in recruiting.

 

[Freak]

Is it against the rules to let Butch finish the season, but let recruits know who you have hired for next year?

Have you considered the early signing period has changed the recruiting dynamic from what anyone is used to?

Do you know the unintended consequences of this rule change? Have you considered this rule change?

Do you assume that once we announce a coach late in the process that recruits will leave their commitments to come to Tennessee?

Do you already know that we aren't making a splash hire and it won't matter anyway?

Why are we losing recruits if they secretly know who we are hiring?

If Butch is hemorrhaging Legacy 5 stars why is keeping him instead of making an announcement about a big splash hire better in your opinion?

You're asking a lot of questions but giving no answers.

The early signing period has changed. Explain how an assistant interim works to our advantage with said rule changes.

I see now. So you think we've hired a big name coach and are just not announcing it early? If that's the case, I'd sit back and enjoy the ride instead of worrying about the next few weeks of recruiting. Recruiting shouldn't be an issue with a home run hire.

Uhh, could it suggest, contrary to popular believe, that UT does indeed care about it's football program?:hi:

Announcing it a few weeks earlier means UT cares? Announcing it later means they don't? Same end result, right?

 

[BanditVol]

In your opinion, why is it imperative that we fire Butch immediately (during the season) as opposed to the end of the year? In other words, what does Tennessee gain in that scenario?

Let's just say I'm curious for research purposes.

Discuss.

It is not impertive that we fire him now. Hopefully the change is made at a time and in such a way as to optimize the sucess of the next guy.:clapping: