Von Pearson Update

Drylo, I'm confused. Are you saying that because 97/100 claims are not brought to trial that 97/100 claims are false claims?

I am saying that out of every 32 complaints made to police, only 3 survive the investigation process and make it to a prosector's desk. That means that police investigations weed out over 90% of rape complaints for one reason or another (maybe it is determined to be a lie, maybe the accuser was confused, maybe there just isn't any corroborating evidence, etc.). Only 2 result in convictions, but it is an astonishing statistic that only 3 (less than 10%) are even credible enough to prosecute. I'm not saying definitively that the others are "false," but when the police investigate and decide that the complaint isn't credible, we should generally roll with the presumption of innocence.

The other 68 (out of 100) are based on extrapolating self-reported survey responses, so there's no telling what those are, but it can fairly be presumed that complaints to police are, on average, more credible than survey responses.
 
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Doublespeak. Football is a player's job. A player agrees to play by the rules. A player is now being investigated for allegedly breaking one of those rules.

The same premise applies to you or any of us. If you were suspended indefinitely by your superior for breaking the rules, would you consider the treatment and all repercussions thereof fair and just?

You can't have it both ways. The system works for all or it doesn't work for any.

But his "pay" is school. He's allowed to continue school. So suspended without pay is not a 1-to-1 comparison.
 
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But his "pay" is school. He's allowed to continue school. So suspended without pay is not a 1-to-1 comparison.

It's not my analogy, but I think it still works if the suspension is "with pay." And, of course, if Von never makes it back, the analogy would have to change to "fired."
 
But his "pay" is school. He's allowed to continue school. So suspended without pay is not a 1-to-1 comparison.

What about meals, tutors, full access to gym/exercise/conditioning facilities, nutritionists, doctors and medical-- things someone relies on, needs and is suddenly without.

But I'm talking big picture. Would you be good with your company suspending you indefinitely and your co-workers, colleagues, friends and the media labeling you an alleged rapist because you were accused of rape without any evidence to support the claim? Simple question. Yes or no?
 
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I am saying that out of every 32 complaints made to police, only 3 survive the investigation process and make it to a prosector's desk. That means that police investigations weed out over 90% of rape complaints for one reason or another (maybe it is determined to be a lie, maybe the accuser was confused, maybe there just isn't any corroborating evidence, etc.). Only 2 result in convictions, but it is an astonishing statistic that only 3 (less than 10%) are even credible enough to prosecute. I'm not saying definitively that the others are "false," but when the police investigate and decide that the complaint isn't credible, we should generally roll with the presumption of innocence.

The other 68 (out of 100) are based on extrapolating self-reported survey responses, so there's no telling what those are, but it can fairly be presumed that complaints to police are, on average, more credible than survey responses.

Society has fostered a cry wolf/rape culture.
 
I am saying that out of every 32 complaints made to police, only 3 survive the investigation process and make it to a prosector's desk. That means that police investigations weed out over 90% of rape complaints for one reason or another (maybe it is determined to be a lie, maybe the accuser was confused, maybe there just isn't any corroborating evidence, etc.). Only 2 result in convictions, but it is an astonishing statistic that only 3 (less than 10%) are even credible enough to prosecute. I'm not saying definitively that the others are "false," but when the police investigate and decide that the complaint isn't credible, we should generally roll with the presumption of innocence.

The other 68 (out of 100) are based on extrapolating self-reported survey responses, so there's no telling what those are, but it can fairly be presumed that complaints to police are, on average, more credible than survey responses.

You are making too many assumptions with this. What I understand is that you are suggesting the evidence is not there, that people get accused of rape and there is not enough evidence to show this.

What I am saying is that in actuality, that false reports of rape are quite low. I got angry because you make the assumption that there isnt evidence. The problem with that is you do not know this.

Here is why I am pissed. These assumptions remove credibility from the victim. To say or suggest that 97% of cases have the potential to be false accusations is a gross overstatement, wwaaaaaay off base. When the victims lose credibility, they are no longer victims. The accused rapist now becomes the victim. This cannot be the way we view rape cases, because as I suggested from my source, false reports are fairly rare.
 
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Everyone on here that is saying the word rape culture or cry wolf has an obvious bias toward letting Von Pearson go free. I would like to see him go free, but the fact remains, he has been accused of something very serious. Whether he did it or not I don't know and I cannot say one way or the other. However, We cannot ignore the fact that rape is rarely falsely reported. And that is what many people on this site seem to be doing.
 
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What I am saying is that in actuality, that false reports of rape are quite low. I got angry because you make the assumption that there isnt evidence. The problem with that is you do not know this.

Here is why I am pissed. These assumptions remove credibility from the victim. To say or suggest that 97% of cases have the potential to be false accusations is a gross overstatement, wwaaaaaay off base. When the victims lose credibility, they are no longer victims. The accused rapist now becomes the victim. This cannot be the way we view rape cases, because as I suggested from my source, false reports are fairly rare.

Your own source says (and I quote): "Due to varying definitions of a 'False Accusation', the true percentage of false accusations remains unknown."

I have tried to be precise about what I am saying--namely, that more than 90% of rape accusations are "not credible" for one reason or another. This is supported by ACTUAL CRIME STATISTICS (as opposed to statistics derived from survey responses for propaganda purposes).
 
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The mood on VQ seems to be that it's actually looking somewhat promising that he will be back. No guarantees, of course, as the same was said about A.J.

That is what I have heard. I hope that things go well for von, and I want to see him playing next season. I think it sucks that he has been reported of this, but also, if this did happen and he is guilty, some sort of justice must be done.
 
You get called into your supervisor's office this afternoon and s/he tells you that a co-worker has accused you of sexual assault. S/he asks you for your office keys and tells you that you're suspended without pay or company resources while the claim is being investigated. A security guard hands you your personal effects in a box and escorts you out of the office while everybody watches, judgment on their faces. You’re told you can't return to the office until the investigation is complete. It could take many months and you're on your own till then.

Your co-workers are told that you have been suspended indefinitely due to a rape investigation, but your accuser is not identified. The news spreads through your industry, and rumors run rampant because nobody really knows the facts. Your accuser refused a rape kit. There's no hard evidence. You're not charged or arrested. But you were accused. Companies won't hire you. Your own company won't help you. Friends avoid you. Expenses mount.

You're identified as an alleged rapist in the local paper, but your accuser is anonymous. You can't tell your side of the story because your attorney advises you to be quiet. Management thinks you made the company look bad, so your job is probably history-- and forget a reference. Maybe you did something inappropriate; maybe it was rape; maybe your accuser had an agenda. But you're innocent until proven guilty, right? Justice will prevail.

Everybody good with that?

Cool, we're playing make-believe. Let's round out the story, with a prequel:

The evening prior to being called into my boss's office, I was at a party at a friend's house untl the wee hours of the morning. There was a lot of alcohol flowing. I mean a LOT. Truth be told, I was pretty hungover when I showed up for work that next morning.

I don't remember it, but at one point during the party I apparently followed the hot chick from personnel management into a bedroom. I've thought for several weeks now that she and I had some kind of flirtation going on. I've been told she left the room in tears a few minutes before I came back out. I honestly remember none of this.

So yeah, I don't KNOW who the accuser is, but I have a pretty good idea. I'm sure nothing happened, though, because I would remember if it did right?

And then, you know the rest.

[If you're gonna play make-believe, gotta live with other people playing make-believe too.]

Chances of being accused of sexual assault go up dramatically if you put yourself in situations where something coulda mighta happened. Solution: be a little more careful who you party with, and how drunk you get. A little self-control goes a long way.

I am saying that out of every 32 complaints made to police, only 3 survive the investigation process and make it to a prosector's desk. That means that police investigations weed out over 90% of rape complaints for one reason or another (maybe it is determined to be a lie, maybe the accuser was confused, maybe there just isn't any corroborating evidence, etc.). Only 2 result in convictions, but it is an astonishing statistic that only 3 (less than 10%) are even credible enough to prosecute. I'm not saying definitively that the others are "false," but when the police investigate and decide that the complaint isn't credible, we should generally roll with the presumption of innocence.

The other 68 (out of 100) are based on extrapolating self-reported survey responses, so there's no telling what those are, but it can fairly be presumed that complaints to police are, on average, more credible than survey responses.

Okay, you're struggling pretty bad with the statistics of this site that you found and linked for us. Your first and most basic problem is cherry-picking the facts of the site to suit your argument.

Look at the very top of the chart you referenced. It says, "Out of Every 100 Rapes". Things it does not say: "out of every 100 supposed rapes," or "out of every 100 potential rapes," or "out of every 100 possible rapes."

So the site itself is saying, these are ALL actual rapes. All 100 of them.

And then you go arguing how most of them aren't credible rapes. Which leaves you ignoring the foundation of the study. So any conclusions you draw, from that point on, are going to be flawed.

Is that study accurate? No idea. How do they know all 100 are actual rapes? No idea. But see, I didn't link that site, you did. So you either believe it, or you don't. You seem to believe it, since you're using its numbers to make your case. But you ignore its most basic premise.

See how you're wrong, drylo? Not trying to demean you, just pointing out your logical fallacy.
 
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Your own source says (and I quote): "Due to varying definitions of a 'False Accusation', the true percentage of false accusations remains unknown."

I have tried to be precise about what I am saying--namely, that more than 90% of rape accusations are "not credible" for one reason or another.

Still man, the numbers are what is and is not reported. I understand you are arguing the lack of evidence, but at the same time you cannot say that 90 or 97 times out of 100 rape allegations are not credible. That is an insanely high prevalence and suggests our judicial system is completely broken. I mean think about it, 9 times out of ten or 97 times out of 100, that those people accused and are not guilty. The implications behind that mean that we cannot believe the person that accuses someone of rape. That is a huge problem and here is why: if everyone thinks that, then people will stop believing those that actually do get raped.

Let me put that in perspective. Let's say you have a daughter, mother, or sister. Let's say she comes to you and tells you that she is raped. Based on what you say above, you probably wouldnt believe her.
 
Everyone on here that is saying the word rape culture or cry wolf has an obvious bias toward letting Von Pearson go free. I would like to see him go free, but the fact remains, he has been accused of something very serious. Whether he did it or not I don't know and I cannot say one way or the other. However, We cannot ignore the fact that rape is rarely falsely reported. And that is what many people on this site seem to be doing.

You're personalizing it. If you'll notice, my arguments are situational and have been gender-neutral and non-specific to any person. I'm simply curious how many posters would be cool with being suspended from their job and labeled a rapist because a co-worker-- or anyone-- accused them of rape, with no evidence to support the claim?

It's a direct, non-biased, non-judgmental question.
 
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Rape is very difficult to prove. Very difficult. If a case cannot go to trial because there isn't enough evidence, it doesn't mean that the victim is any less raped.

Any philosophical discussion with you I regard under the auspice of your accusation of Jalen Hurd being a rude scuzzball...based on a young lady's account of his behavior during a stay at the hotel she worked at. You stated her version was fact with no room for discourse. Vol74 promptly discredited her story with facts that he had access to and made you eat your own butt in the process. If a friend of the family hadn't had facts about his itinerary, you'd probably still be railing false characterizations of him on here. But you're conveniently and (to our benefit ) silent on that false story. Now your backing of this young lady's accusations without any type of source isn't really an advantage. I consider her a possible rape victim and him a possible character assassination victim...let the justice system and evidence decide...you're not good at this. :hi:
 
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You're personalizing it. If you'll notice, my arguments are situational and have been gender-neutral and non-specific to any person. I'm simply curious how many posters would be cool with being suspended from their job and labeled a rapist because a co-worker-- or anyone-- accused them of rape, with no evidence to support the claim?

It's a direct, non-biased, non-judgmental question.

I understand. I can't help but personalize it though. My wife is carrying my daughter right now. My sincerest forgiveness if this topic makes me emotional.
 
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Okay, you're struggling pretty bad with the statistics of this site that you found and linked for us. Your first and most basic problem is cherry-picking the facts of the site to suit your argument.

Look at the very top of the chart you referenced. It says, "Out of Every 100 Rapes". Things it does not say: "out of every 100 supposed rapes," or "out of every 100 potential rapes," or "out of every 100 possible rapes."

So the site itself is saying, these are ALL actual rapes. All 100 of them.

And then you go arguing how most of them aren't credible rapes. Which leaves you ignoring the foundation of the study. So any conclusions you draw, from that point on, are going to be flawed.

Is that study accurate? No idea. How do they know all 100 are actual rapes? No idea. But see, I didn't link that site, you did. So you either believe it, or you don't. You seem to believe it, since you're using its numbers to make your case. But you ignore its most basic premise.

See how you're wrong, drylo? Not trying to demean you, just pointing out your logical fallacy.

No, I really don't see how I'm wrong, and I'm not "struggling pretty bad with the statistics."

The fact that the chart is titled "OUT OF EVERY 100 RAPES" doesn't mean jack. I told you where those numbers come from: the 32 (and the ratios within that 32) comes from actual crime stats (i.e., 32 police reports), and the 68 comes from extrapolating survey responses. Now that you know where the numbers come from, pray tell how you can assume that all 100 alleged rapes actually occurred...

That's the point--you can't. In fact, of the 32 police reports, only 3 of them survived an investigation without being essentially discredited.

The "logical fallacy" is not with me. It is this (from the link: "But even when the crime is reported, it is unlike [sic] to lead to an arrest and prosecution. Factoring in unreported rapes, only about 2% of rapists will ever serve a day in prison."
 
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I mean think about it, 9 times out of ten or 97 times out of 100, that those people accused and are not guilty. The implications behind that mean that we cannot believe the person that accuses someone of rape. That is a huge problem and here is why: if everyone thinks that, then people will stop believing those that actually do get raped.

This is you: "I don't like what the stats say, so therefore I reject the stats."

And, by the way, should we blindly believe every rape accusation? That's what you suggest in the last sentence. I'd rather investigate and then draw conclusions, personally. Different strokes.
 
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I understand. I can't help but personalize it though. My wife is carrying my daughter right now. My sincerest forgiveness if this topic makes me emotional.

It's cool-- and congrats on adding a new little Vol to the 'Nation!

Rape is a horrible crime. And so is a false accusation. Both ruin lives and cause tremendous humiliation and pain. Getting it right is difficult-- and so much wrong can be done if the system-- or the process-- fails.
 
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Still man, the numbers are what is and is not reported. I understand you are arguing the lack of evidence, but at the same time you cannot say that 90 or 97 times out of 100 rape allegations are not credible. That is an insanely high prevalence and suggests our judicial system is completely broken. I mean think about it, 9 times out of ten or 97 times out of 100, that those people accused and are not guilty. The implications behind that mean that we cannot believe the person that accuses someone of rape. That is a huge problem and here is why: if everyone thinks that, then people will stop believing those that actually do get raped.

Let me put that in perspective. Let's say you have a daughter, mother, or sister. Let's say she comes to you and tells you that she is raped. Based on what you say above, you probably wouldnt believe her.

If I was a prosecuting attorney...I'd most likely recuse myself. We believe our loved ones. I don't think he was proposing that rapes don't happen. They happen every hour and a large number of us (myself included) personally know a victim. I also have a niece who falsely accused my brother-in-law (her step-dad). Simple hard-working man went a year and a half not seeing his kids and not being able to live in his home. She's an intelligent sweet girl whose story completely fell apart when the judge stepped in. His marriage failed and he's building his life back as we speak. She's halfway through college with a goal of being a PA. No lesson...no real villain...just something wrong happened to a good man...enough of both sides shown there? :dunno:
 

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