Von Pearson Update

#851
#851
KBVol said:
No. We're not saying that Von was "in no way at fault"...we're saying that we don't know and you don't know and because of that, just flat out, point blank saying that he "put himself" into some type of untenable situation is wrong....because no one know at this point. He may well have.... or may be an innocent victim given how things have played out to this point seeing as how no charges have been filed and the wheels have been in motion for his imminent return. If you want to make absolute statements about the circumstances and facts of the event...when you don't know the circumstances and facts of the event, then go ahead...but expect some fair-minded, level-headed posters to counter your points.
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This.
 
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#852
#852
BigOrange15 said:
I think that even if Butch was almost positive that Von did nothing, he still would have suspended him given how the situation played out. Especially given the current climate. In the eyes of media and onlookers, it doesn't matter what Butch THINKS he knows, it matters that the situation and Von are under investigation and yet he is still continuing as normal.
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Yeah, I kind of wish Butch was a little more hesitant to suspend in these situations, but I understand his approach. It is very clear that any criminal allegation/investigation is met with immediate suspension. Period. It's not a sign that butch thinks the person is guilty. I mean, Butch had suspended Von within a few hours of the alleged incident.
 
#853
#853
drylo said:
Yeah, I kind of wish Butch was a little more hesitant to suspend in these situations, but I understand his approach. It is very clear that any criminal allegation/investigation is met with immediate suspension. Period. It's not a sign that butch thinks the person is guilty. I mean, Butch had suspended Von within a few hours of the alleged incident.
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I think Butch is just one of those guys that never puts anyone in front of the program no matter who they are. Yeah, it sucks for the player and for us but its tough to knock the Tennessee football program for having lax standards when it comes to discipline. Unlike some coaches out there, if you do anything to disrespect this program, you WILL be suspended until it's resolved. He knows it, we know it, and the players all know it. Everyone is treated the same and honestly, I'm not sure I blame him for approaching it that way in this day and age.
 
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#859
#859
gunner said:
Clearly, there is a disconnect here, when the head coach tells the media in plain English that he's is disappointed in the players decision, he's blaming the player for his poor decision and the coach is holding the player accountable for that poor decision. That's why Von is suspended from the team, because he put himself in that situation.
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There is literally no other way for Jones to approach this situation, regardless of what he internally believes actually happened, (and regardless of what did/didn't actually happen) other than to take a harsh tone about Von due to the allegations.

Jones may very well think it's laughably false, but we'll never know. If Jones took a light stance against Von and charges were filed and he were declared guilty, how would that reflect from a PR stance against Jones? He's playing to the court of public opinion and will most likely never reveal his true thoughts, even if Von is exonerated entirely.
 
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#860
#860
WilliamDuVOL said:
There is literally no other way for Jones to approach this situation, regardless of what he internally believes actually happened, (and regardless of what did/didn't actually happen) other than to take a harsh tone about Von due to the allegations.

Jones may very well think it's laughably false, but we'll never know. If Jones took a light stance against Von and charges were filed and he were declared guilty, how would that reflect from a PR stance against Jones? He's playing to the court of public opinion and will most likely never reveal his true thoughts, even if Von is exonerated entirely.
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William, this I don't agree with.

Like you, I believe Coach Jones has to represent the interests of the program and university over any individual. But if Butch were sure, absolutely positive, that nothing happened, I think he would (and should) stand up for the innocent player. He might catch some flack initially, but over time would be entirely vindicated ... and would be more widely respected by folks on both sides of the issue as a result of his principled stand.

No, based on his actions thus far, Butch either believes something may have happened, or simply doesn't know. And that doubt is what caused him to suspend Von until the investigations can sort it all out.
 
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#861
#861
VFL-82-JP said:
William, this I don't agree with.

Like you, I believe Coach Jones has to represent the interests of the program and university over any individual. But if Butch were sure, absolutely confident, that nothing happened, I think he would (and should) stand up for the innocent player. He might catch some flack initially, but over time would be entirely vindicated ... and would be more widely respected by folks on both sides of the issue as a result of his principled stand.

No, based on his actions thus far, Butch either believes something may have happened, or simply doesn't know. And that doubt is what caused him to suspend Von until the investigations can sort it all out.
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Then you haven't been paying attention. I'm aware of two players since Butch took over, that have been cleared after being accused of a serious charge...Marlin Lane and Coleman Thomas. We didn't even know that Marlin had been accused and Butch didn't let us know! We just knew he wasn't with the team and had to work some issues out...year later the Tennessean revealed that he was investigated and cleared for rape. AFTER he returned to the team, Butch praised him for his attitude and work ethic. We knew what Coleman was charged with and if we had taken anything from Butch's comments on the case, we could have surmised that he wouldn't be back this year...stone wall! The man doesn't tip his hand on any inside knowledge! Just the way he works. It's been a small sample size of cleared players but if Pearson joins that group? This is what you'll see.
 
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#862
#862
butchna said:
Then you haven't been paying attention. I'm aware of two players since Butch took over, that have been cleared after being accused of a serious charge...Marlin Lane and Coleman Thomas. We didn't even know that Marlin had been accused and Butch didn't let us know! We just knew he wasn't with the team and had to work some issues out...year later the Tennessean revealed that he was investigated and cleared for rape. AFTER he returned to the team, Butch praised him for his attitude and work ethic. We knew what Coleman was charged with and if we had taken anything from Butch's comments on the case, we could have surmised that he wouldn't be back this year...stone wall! The man doesn't tip his hand on any inside knowledge! Just the way he works. It's been a small sample size of cleared players but if Pearson joins that group? This is what you'll see.
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Butchna, what did you see in either case that led you to believe Butch Jones was sure the two were innocent, early on? That's what you're saying, right, that he was convinced they were innocent from the start, but still suspended them?

I didn't see the Coleman Thomas incident play out that way. Didn't know anything about Marlin Lane while it was happening, of course, but we saw Coleman's situation play out in real time, thanks to VN folks close to him and the team. Did not at all look like he was innocent in the first hours/days. Butch was probably unsure as well, at first. By re-reading the threads on Coleman, can see the timeline and how long it was before the insiders started saying it was pretty clear Coleman was innocent.
 
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#863
#863
VFL-82-JP said:
Butchna, what did you see in either case that led you to believe Butch Jones was sure the two were innocent, early on? That's what you're saying, right, that he was convinced they were innocent from the start, but still suspended them?

I didn't see the Coleman Thomas incident play out that way. Didn't know anything about Marlin Lane while it was happening, of course, but we saw Coleman's situation play out in real time, thanks to VN folks close to him and the team. Did not at all look like he was innocent in the first hours/days. Butch was probably unsure as well, at first.
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We had insiders like EazyTD, who pegged the Michael Sawyers angle EARLY (like the first day)...you telling me Butch didn't get the same chatter ?
 
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#864
#864
butchna said:
We had insiders like EazyTD, who pegged the Michael Sawyers angle EARLY (like the first day)...you telling me Butch didn't get the same chatter ?
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Yeah, you're right, I just went back and tortured myself by re-reading the first 250+ posts of the original Coleman Thomas arrested thread (that was painful). Don't know why I didn't remember folks bringing up the "he mighta been a dupe" angle from the very first day, but you're right, the folks close to Coleman and the other team members were aware from the get-go. And Butch almost certainly knew more than we did, so he had to know.

My bad.
 
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#865
#865
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, you're right, I just went back and tortured myself by re-reading the first 250+ posts of the original Coleman Thomas arrested thread (that was painful). Don't know why I didn't remember folks bringing up the "he mighta been a dupe" angle from the very first day, but you're right, the folks close to Coleman and the other team members were aware from the get-go. And Butch almost certainly knew more than we did, so he had to know.

My bad.
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That's some serious (and painful) reading! You're forgiven. :w00t:
 
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#866
#866
VFL-82-JP said:
William, this I don't agree with.

Like you, I believe Coach Jones has to represent the interests of the program and university over any individual. But if Butch were sure, absolutely positive, that nothing happened, I think he would (and should) stand up for the innocent player. He might catch some flack initially, but over time would be entirely vindicated ... and would be more widely respected by folks on both sides of the issue as a result of his principled stand.

No, based on his actions thus far, Butch either believes something may have happened, or simply doesn't know. And that doubt is what caused him to suspend Von until the investigations can sort it all out.
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JP, I get your point, but what I'm trying to say is it seems like in any of these situations (especially in ones regarding potential violence against women, given the recent happenings with high profile NFL players) it's Jones prerogative to protect the program at all costs. If Jones has player X sitting there telling him that player X is innocent of an accused crime, it's wonderful if Jones trusts him and sees no evidence to the contrary and wants to protect/support him. However, to my point, what if Jones came out and said player X is a fine young man and would never commit that crime, but investigators find a piece of evidence that allows charges to be brought and a guilty verdict eventually rendered.

In this scenario, Jones has now publicly shown support for a convicted offender of some sort of potentially heinous crime. It makes him look foolish/soft. That's why I believe he handles these things the way he does. It's not an indictment of the player or accusation, it's seemingly protecting the program as a whole.
 
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#867
#867
WilliamDuVOL said:
JP, I get your point, but what I'm trying to say is it seems like in any of these situations (especially in ones regarding potential violence against women, given the recent happenings with high profile NFL players) it's Jones prerogative to protect the program at all costs. If Jones has player X sitting there telling him that player X is innocent of an accused crime, it's wonderful if Jones trusts him and sees no evidence to the contrary and wants to protect/support him. However, to my point, what if Jones came out and said player X is a fine young man and would never commit that crime, but investigators find a piece of evidence that allows charges to be brought and a guilty verdict eventually rendered.

In this scenario, Jones has now publicly shown support for a convicted offender of some sort of potentially heinous crime. It makes him look foolish/soft. That's why I believe he handles these things the way he does. It's not an indictment of the player or accusation, it's seemingly protecting the program as a whole.
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Yeah, you're right, William. I'd like to think Butch would stand up for his guys if he were absolutely sure they were completely innocent...and maybe he would...but as you point out, it is a practical impossibility to be THAT sure about someone else's actions when you weren't there to witness them yourself.

So I get your point. You are right.
 
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#868
#868
I still think Jones is having to wait for the school to complete its Title IX investigation before he can do anything, and that is going to take longer than most of you think.
 
#869
#869
VFL-82-JP said:
Yeah, you're right, William. I'd like to think Butch would stand up for his guys if he were absolutely sure they were completely innocent...and maybe he would...but as you point out, it is a practical impossibility to be THAT sure about someone else's actions when you weren't there to witness them yourself.

So I get your point. You are right.
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Much respect to you JP! Not many on these pages have the intellectual honesty to go back and reread to verify their position and be open to change it if necessary.
 
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#870
#870
VFL-82-JP said:
But if Butch were sure, absolutely positive, that nothing happened, I think he would (and should) stand up for the innocent player. He might catch some flack initially, but over time would be entirely vindicated ... and would be more widely respected by folks on both sides of the issue as a result of his principled stand.
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Yeah, he'd be more widely respected by everybody for standing up for his guy--you know, just like Jimbo Fisher is.
 
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#871
#871
Dragon18 said:
Much respect to you JP! Not many on these pages have the intellectual honesty to go back and reread to verify their position and be open to change it if necessary.
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Ditto...that was cool! :clapping:


Extra credit for ending up in agreement with me. :)
 
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#872
#872
WilliamDuVOL said:
There is literally no other way for Jones to approach this situation, regardless of what he internally believes actually happened, (and regardless of what did/didn't actually happen) other than to take a harsh tone about Von due to the allegations.

Jones may very well think it's laughably false, but we'll never know. If Jones took a light stance against Von and charges were filed and he were declared guilty, how would that reflect from a PR stance against Jones? He's playing to the court of public opinion and will most likely never reveal his true thoughts, even if Von is exonerated entirely.
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Make him do wind sprints till he pukes. Problem solved.
 
#873
#873
For all we know he went into the bathroom to do exactly what bathrooms are meant for. Waybe he saw her maybe he didn't maybe he whipped out his junk to use the restroom, maybe he presented it as offering to her. We do not know. There are way too many possibilities out there.

I think everyone is whipped in a frenzy because this sort of thing is the hot button thing lately.

It reminds me of a time when I was in the Navy and was brought up on sexual harassment charges for offering to help a 70 pound girl carry 40 pound trash bag. I had never come in contact with this person before in my life. we were leaving the ship for liberty. I was an Electronics tech and was carrying our normal huge trashbag containing a few wadded up pieces of paper and she was staggering down the pier looking like the hunchback of Notre Dame. My only words to her were "need some help with that?" she said no I said you sure?" she said no again I said "ok" and went about my business. I didn't use a "tone" nor innuendo. Two days later Sr. Chief tells me I am to report to Captains Mast (NJP). The funny thing is she tells the story exactly as it happened. Every one stands there trying to keep straight faces as the Captain tried to figure out how to make it go away. End of day I still ended up with a page 13 in my permanent record. Imagine if I had ever gotten into something else similar. Now that's a pattern any Da of JAG would have a feild day with. the problem is people jump to conclusions in this age of instant info.

another example today on the radio they are talking about this lady who is suing an airline for discrimination because the flight attendant wouldn't give her an unopend can. Said was because she was muslim. they ranted about it then finally gave the pertinent info. Her whole case was the guy next to her got an unopened can OF BEER the flight attendant would not give her an unopened can of soda. anyone that spends any amount of time on flights can probably figure out why that one falls apart and should have never made it past the lawyer.

This case will either go away or go forward either way this kids life is marked and he will never be able to undo whatever was done right or wrong.
 
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