Von Pearson Update

#802
#802
gunner said:
Regardless of what you think, no one is coming after these players, it's the situations that they put themsels that is the cause for concern. I don't want to start preaching here but I am sure you get my point.
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He never said anyone was going after players, he's saying that for all we know putting oneself in these "situations" consist of going to a party. Which isn't putting yourself in a situation to be accused of rape. Nobody is going to hide in their room until their football career is over, nor is any college student going to stop living a typical collegiate life for fear of being accused of something.

In other words, I think you missed his point.
 
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#803
#803
Wolfeman_Vol said:
We live in some muddy waters, indeed. After spending the past couple days watching old James Bond movies, it's odd to realize how much our definition of rape has changed. Old J. B. was a serial rapist for sure.
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It's definitely a different world than even 10 years ago. A prosecutor asks whether there was non-consensual sex (i.e. forcible sexual assault etc.). An administrator asks if there was affirmative consent. To the administrator, it doesn't matter that nothing was forced. It doesn't matter that both individuals were drunk. It wouldn't matter even if the girl initiated while drunk. Where there is an allegation, there must be an investigation, and the standard is "consent".
 
#804
#804
Wolfeman_Vol said:
He never said anyone was going after players, he's saying that for all we know putting oneself in these "situations" consist of going to a party. Which isn't putting yourself in a situation to be accused of rape. Nobody is going to hide in their room until their football career is over, nor is any college student going to stop living a typical collegiate life for fear of being accused of something.

In other words, I think you missed his point.
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Hey brother, I'm not missing the point, but when there is immoral and unlawful activity going on at these parties, a reasonable person would conclude that they are putting themselves into these situations.

If you eat fruit from a poisoned tree, you should expect to be poisoned too. That's just common sense in my book.
 
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#805
#805
gunner said:
Hey brother, I'm not missing the point, but when there is immoral and unlawful activity going on at these parties, a reasonable person would conclude that they are putting themselves into these situations.

If you eat fruit from a poisoned tree, you should expect to be poisoned too. That's just common sense in my book.
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True enough, my friend. But any situation could lead to any of us being accused of something. That could very well be what happened here. We simply will never know, but I don't think any of us can expect our players to stop partying or having social lives. It's just not realistic. Wouldn't you agree?
 
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#806
#806
gunner said:
Hey brother, I'm not missing the point, but when there is immoral and unlawful activity going on at these parties, a reasonable person would conclude that they are putting themselves into these situations.

If you eat fruit from a poisoned tree, you should expect to be poisoned too. That's just common sense in my book.
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Before the allegation they were running guns and mining blood diamonds? And poison tree punch only has everclear in it FYI.
 
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#807
#807
gunner said:
Hey brother, I'm not missing the point, but when there is immoral and unlawful activity going on at these parties, a reasonable person would conclude that they are putting themselves into these situations.

If you eat fruit from a poisoned tree, you should expect to be poisoned too. That's just common sense in my book.
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Immoral and unlawful activity? Was someone arrested at the party? I won't ask about the immoral part, given that is personal opinion.
 
#808
#808
chargervol said:
Immoral and unlawful activity? Was someone arrested at the party? I won't ask about the immoral part, given that is personal opinion.
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Heard they were running a bootleg copy of Avengers Age of Ultron. :cool2:
 
#810
#810
Wolfeman_Vol said:
True enough, my friend. But any situation could lead to any of us being accused of something. That could very well be what happened here. We simply will never know, but I don't think any of us can expect our players to stop partying or having social lives. It's just not realistic. Wouldn't you agree?
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I don't expect them to be choir boys, but I do expect them to follow the team rules provided to each player by the Head Football Coach, and Butch has made it clear to them and anyone else who is listening what types of behavior is acceptable and what is NOT acceptable. Von was suspended from the team because he violated team rules. So it's on him and no one else as he and the rest of the team have been warned by their coach.

I expect UT Football players to be held to a higher standard than the average UT student. Not because they are any better than anyone else, but because they represent the University at all times. The media is always looking to get something on them. It comes with wearing that Power T on the helmet and Orange Jersey on Saturdays. It's unfortunate for them but true.
 
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#811
#811
gunner said:
Hey brother, I'm not missing the point, but when there is immoral and unlawful activity going on at these parties, a reasonable person would conclude that they are putting themselves into these situations.

If you eat fruit from a poisoned tree, you should expect to be poisoned too. That's just common sense in my book.
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I don't disagree that many of the football guys (like most UT students) go to parties where immoral (by my definition) things go on. But being at a party where immoral things are going on isn't necessarily immoral. Plus, Von is of legal age to drink, so he wouldn't be doing anything illegal if he was drinking. And even if immoral, it's not illegal to engage in sexualized tomfoolery (which Von may or may not have done).

Rape is very, very serious. To say "oh well" because Von "put himself in that situation" by hanging out drinking with some people and whatever else is completely ridiculous. It simply isn't true or fair (or helpful to society in terms of punishing actual rapists) to say that if you go to a college (or adult?) house party where people are drinking, it's basically fair game for you to be branded a rapist.
 
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#812
#812
drylo said:
I don't disagree that many of the football guys (like most UT students) go to parties where immoral (by my definition) things go on. But being at a party where immoral things are going on isn't necessarily immoral. Plus, Von is of legal age to drink, so he wouldn't be doing anything illegal if he was drinking. And even if immoral, it's not illegal to engage in sexualized tomfoolery (which Von may or may not have done).

Rape is very, very serious. To say "oh well" because Von "put himself in that situation" by hanging out drinking with some people and whatever else is completely ridiculous. It simply isn't true or fair (or helpful to society in terms of punishing actual rapists) to say that if you go to a college (or adult?) house party where people are drinking, it's basically fair game for you to be branded a rapist.
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I gave you the like for the 1940's "sexulaized tomfoolery"

High 5 if you read it in Hank Hill's voice.
 
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#813
#813
drylo said:
I don't disagree that many of the football guys (like most UT students) go to parties where immoral (by my definition) things go on. But being at a party where immoral things are going on isn't necessarily immoral. Plus, Von is of legal age to drink, so he wouldn't be doing anything illegal if he was drinking. And even if immoral, it's not illegal to engage in sexualized tomfoolery (which Von may or may not have done).

Rape is very, very serious. To say "oh well" because Von "put himself in that situation" by hanging out drinking with some people and whatever else is completely ridiculous. It simply isn't true or fair (or helpful to society in terms of punishing actual rapists) to say that if you go to a college (or adult?) house party where people are drinking, it's basically fair game for you to be branded a rapist.
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That's not my point at all. There is more to the story than just going to an innocent house party. Von disappointed his team and his coach with his actions. That's the situation I'm referring to, I don't know the specific details but from Butch's own comments it's apparent than Von did something he shouldn't not have done. Does it rise to the level of criminal behavior? I am not sure.

"We're not going to tolerate it. It's inexcusable," Jones said. "I think you guys know how we run our football program. We have tremendous kids in this program, and it's not an indication of what we have. It's unfortunate. That's all I'm saying."

Those are Butch's comments the day after he suspended Von indefinitely from the team. Clearly, he was disappointed and upset with Von. So I think it's very fair to say that Von put himself in this situation.
 
#814
#814
gunner said:
That's not my point at all. There is more to the story than just going to an innocent house party. Von disappointed his team and his coach with his actions. That's the situation I'm referring to, I don't know the specific details but from Butch's own comments it's apparent than Von did something he shouldn't not have done. Does it rise to the level of criminal behavior? I am not sure.

"We're not going to tolerate it. It's inexcusable," Jones said. "I think you guys know how we run our football program. We have tremendous kids in this program, and it's not an indication of what we have. It's unfortunate. That's all I'm saying."

Those are Butch's comments the day after he suspended Von indefinitely from the team. Clearly, he was disappointed and upset with Von. So I think it's very fair to say that Von put himself in this situation.
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We know what he was accused of. We obviously do not know all the facts. He hasn't been charged with anything, thus he didn't (this far in the eyes of the law) do anything to have put himself in any situation. So with what information we have, we can't judge the whole affair at all.
 
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#815
#815
Wolfeman_Vol said:
We know what he was accused of. We obviously do not know all the facts. He hasn't been charged with anything, thus he didn't (this far in the eyes of the law) do anything to have put himself in any situation. So with what information we have, we can't judge the whole affair at all.
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Then why did Butch suspend him from the team?
 
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#819
#819
Slydell said:
Good question. I'd like to hear the answer from Butch.
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It's not a particularly good question at all....he had no choice. Suspend the player, let the investigation take place, if he's innocent reinstate him...if he's guilty cut him loose. Protects the program and university, especially given the political climate around even a hint of wrongdoing on college campuses.
 
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#821
#821
gunner said:
Then why did Butch suspend him from the team?
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Because Butch's policy is to suspend any player involved in a legal investigation while the investigation plays out. If Von was under investigation for allegedly selling stolen video games or trying to rob people with a pellet gun outside Pilot, the treatment would have been the same.
 
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#822
#822
KBVol said:
Standard operating procedure. He would also be publicly castigated if he didn't would take a huge PR hit. It was the right, appropriate and only thing he could do.
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Maybe, but it's also SOP to suspend a player who violates team rules, and publically embaresses the University and team in the process, and that's what Von did.

These plays have been warned by the coach to stop putting themselves into these situations where they violate team rules. So it's on Von and no one else.

If he doesn't get charged with a crime, and his name is cleared by the police, he will be back on the team after serving a considerable suspension.
 
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#824
#824
KBVol said:
It's not a particularly good question at all....he had no choice. Suspend the player, let the investigation take place, if he's innocent reinstate him...if he's guilty cut him loose. Protects the program and university, especially given the political climate around even a hint of wrongdoing on college campuses.
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“I don’t want that to take away from all the great things that are going on in this football program,” Jones said Saturday after the Orange and White Game at Neyland Stadium. “That’s an ongoing situation. He is suspended indefinitely. But there are consequences for choices and actions. And we constantly educate our players. It’s not an illustration of our football program. We have tremendous, tremendous kids in our football program. I’m disappointed, but we have to move forward. We have a lot of great kids, and a lot of great things going on here. I know people try to use that against us. But we have great kids. I think that’s been proven, with our community service, with our academic excellence, and we will continue to move forward. But there are consequences for actions.”

That's pretty clear to me that he's blaming Von for making a bad decision and putting himself in that situation.
 
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