Vols rejecting Gary Patterson another lesson on incompetence

[Behr]

FWIW the Gruden threads were some of the most entertaining I’ve ever read on here. Just hope we don’t have to revive them anytime soon.

I hope it's a very long time before any of us want a new HC, but when that time comes I'm sure someone will try to get them started again. They'll do it without me this time.

 

[stevenrich2003]

This makes my stomach turn.

 

[BearCat204]

It didn’t make sense for our athletic department to make that investment and it didn’t make sense at the time for Clemson to invest $2.5mill a year plus pay bowdens buyout.

Just about every single candidate (not fulmer because he never was one and not because of money) was going to have at least a 2.5 salary. Their top was going to demand even more than that. The only reason Dabo was picked was because of his relationship with TD Phillips and how he won the team during his interim time. Making sense and all this stuff you are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that Fulmer was never a candidate for the Clemson job because they couldn't afford it.

 

[BearCat204]

I hope it's a very long time before any of us want a new HC, but when that time comes I'm sure someone will try to get them started again. They'll do it without me this time.

I think we can all agree with this lol


The gruden threads were fun though

 

[Johncarter53]

Just about every single candidate (not fulmer because he never was one and not because of money) was going to have at least a 2.5 salary. Their top was going to demand even more than that. The only reason Dabo was picked was because of his relationship with TD Phillips and how he won the team during his interim time. Making sense and all this stuff you are talking about has absolutely nothing to do with your claim that Fulmer was never a candidate for the Clemson job because they couldn't afford it.

I wouldn’t have paid Todd graham or skip holtz 2.5 either.

 

[TJSVOLS]

I was responding to the person who said he would choose Pruitt over Patterson. I was showing the absurdity of that claim.

Maybe get the context next time before going off half-cocked?

Then maybe you should learn how to explain what you are talking about. And as of 2019 I would rather have Pruitt, but at this point it is all just opinion.

 

[Boca Vol]

I hope it's a very long time before any of us want a new HC, but when that time comes I'm sure someone will try to get them started again. They'll do it without me this time.

You know his wife was a cheerleader at UT....

 

[Behr]

You know his wife was a cheerleader at UT....

I heard, Ivan told me as he was pouring me a scotch.

 

[Boca Vol]

I heard, Ivan told me as he was pouring me a scotch.

I was invited to Gruden's house on Lyon's View....the one Jimmy Haslam gave him as a signing bonus.

 

[iluvsmesumdooley]

This is why I've always rejected the "UT is just not the program it used to be" arguments. There's no fundamental shift in college football that has left us behind.

If anything, winning a national championship at Tennessee is easier than it was back in 1998 or 2007. The SEC is a major pull for recruits now and the state of Tennessee has way more top recruits now than it did a few decades ago. Moreover, we routinely post some of the best revenue numbers in the country.

We're not Nebraska, a program hurt by national recruiting trends and the move to the Big 10 (which made it more difficult for them to recruit Texas). We're not Michigan, which has seen its state and regional talent pool shrink for decades. We're not Miami, a program hurt by disinterest from the fans.

No grand fundamental trend has hurt our program. The "trends" have actually made this a better job than it used to be. We just made crappy coaching hires.

We had the opportunity to hire Patterson. We've had multiple opportunities to hire Mike Leach. There have been other great coaches interested. We just didn't hire them.

Hamilton was obsessed with discovering a great "wunderkind" rather than a proven coach in 2008. And that decision has haunted us for over a decade.

And now we have to cross our fingers and hope the latest "wunderkind" works out.

 

[sport3500]

Who were the candidates for the athletic director's job when Dickey retired? Did Tennessee have anybody else in mind besides Hamilton?

 

[YankeeVol]

No use crying over spilled milk. It is what it is at this point. Hopefully PF made the right hire ( I'd like to think he did), and we get back to where we belong.

 

[08Vol]

Sorry but in the 7 years in the big 12 (after crushing mountain west), he only has 1 losing regular seasons and had 2 11 wins and 1 12 win seasons, with one conference title and a final top 10 ranking those 3 years. Would I trade our past 7 years for that? In a heartbeat.

I would trade for that too. My point is he wouldn’t be able to do anything close to that in the SEC. Look at Brett Bielema’s record at Wisconsin, 4 double digit win seasons, 3 top 10 finishes, 3 Rose Bowl appearances. Never won more than 8 games in a season at Arkansas. Patterson would have been an ok coach here with a career similar to Jim McElwain’s at UF but with less talent and fewer wins.

 

[MikeVol44]

The climate in 2008 wasn't going to allow us to hire a gimmick coach. We (or I should say the traditionalist fanbase) wanted to run pro style offense and the allure of getting Kiffin, Monte Kiffin and Ed O were too hard to pass up.

The Kiffin hire wasn't a bad hire... the contract buyout was the problem.

Hiring Kiffin was a disastrous hire and a stupid decision since we now know that we could've hired Gary Patterson! It's just that simple....

 

[butchna]

Hiring Kiffin was a disastrous hire and a stupid decision since we now know that we could've hired Gary Patterson! It's just that simple....

KNOWING is why it isn’t.

 

[MikeVol44]

KNOWING is why it isn’t.

If the reporting is correct---it's WHY we declined to hire GP and chose to hire LK that makes it a disastrous decision made by a bean counter of an AD--Hamilton.
I'm assuming that Hamilton actually said that GP was "too much of a FB coach" for UT....That statement alone is beyond comprehension.

Kiffin's conduct here also backs up why hiring him was a disaster. He IS still a CLASSLESS individual.

On the other hand--I've NEVER read a discouraging word about GP--his character--or his relationship with his players.
You live in Texas, don't you---what do most folks in Texas think about GP?

I don't think that hiring GP would've guaranteed SEC titles--but I do believe he could've steadied the ship, recruited well in the SEC, and had us playing very well defensively sooner rather than later.
I also think that he would not have run off those 2 QB recruits Fulmer had committed (Boyd and I can't remember the other dude).

I know it's all hindsight, too.

However, I'm certainly very happy to have CJP now.

GO VOLS

 

[onevol74]

But the mess was his exit and not really his hiring here. The timing of his escape plan and our cluster **** of a response to that was what set us on a path of what we are in right now. Not to mention, we double down on the dumb hire of Dooley with an equally dumb hire of butch jones. If Kiffin had not of left the way and at the timing he did, I dont think our decline would have been what it was.

You may be correct since the NCAA was seeking accommodations in Knoxville as he was walking out the door. Thank goodness that Garza was the only thing they found. If Kiffin and Orgeron had a couple more seasons we may have been in line for the death penalty. Kiffin never cared about the program and it showed. When you consider what kind of person he was 11 months after being hired, then he should have never been hired. What is amazing is the late Al Davis tried to tell everyone who Kiffin is.

I do not wish to judge Kiffin as a person, but I do judge what he did to Tennessee Football. And yes, he is a product of poor leadership in the UT AD and administration. I get that. But his decision to walk out at 11pm changed this program forever. He killed whatever respect this program had nationally in one day. It was his decision, and his alone.

 

[Roustabout]

Is anyone else tired of the anti Tennessee articles posted lately?

We’ve acknowledged we screwed the pooch
We’ve acknowledged Admins being incompetent
We’ve acknowledged underwhelming players and coaches

Beating that horse over and over.

Hate to tell you, but until they turn the corner you’ll hear more.

 

[photovol]

The Vols have a large number of holes in their feet, from mis-aiming and friendly fire, unfortunately.

 

[YankeeVol]

If the reporting is correct---it's WHY we declined to hire GP and chose to hire LK that makes it a disastrous decision made by a bean counter of an AD--Hamilton.
I'm assuming that Hamilton actually said that GP was "too much of a FB coach" for UT....That statement alone is beyond comprehension.

Kiffin's conduct here also backs up why hiring him was a disaster. He IS still a CLASSLESS individual.

On the other hand--I've NEVER read a discouraging word about GP--his character--or his relationship with his players.
You live in Texas, don't you---what do most folks in Texas think about GP?

I don't think that hiring GP would've guaranteed SEC titles--but I do believe he could've steadied the ship, recruited well in the SEC, and had us playing very well defensively sooner rather than later.
I also think that he would not have run off those 2 QB recruits Fulmer had committed (Boyd and I can't remember the other dude).

I know it's all hindsight, too.

However, I'm certainly very happy to have CJP now.

GO VOLS

Look him up on Twitter. You'd be surprised

 

[butchna]

If the reporting is correct---it's WHY we declined to hire GP and chose to hire LK that makes it a disastrous decision made by a bean counter of an AD--Hamilton.
I'm assuming that Hamilton actually said that GP was "too much of a FB coach" for UT....That statement alone is beyond comprehension.

Kiffin's conduct here also backs up why hiring him was a disaster. He IS still a CLASSLESS individual.

On the other hand--I've NEVER read a discouraging word about GP--his character--or his relationship with his players.
You live in Texas, don't you---what do most folks in Texas think about GP?

I don't think that hiring GP would've guaranteed SEC titles--but I do believe he could've steadied the ship, recruited well in the SEC, and had us playing very well defensively sooner rather than later.
I also think that he would not have run off those 2 QB recruits Fulmer had committed (Boyd and I can't remember the other dude).

I know it's all hindsight, too.

However, I'm certainly very happy to have CJP now.

GO VOLS

Patterson wasn’t this known homerun in 2009 and some of the points already made might’ve prevented that narrative in the SEC. Sometimes a HC makes one move too many and it doesn’t work out...example Dennis Franchione. Guy was a superstar at every stop along the way until Texas A&M. What happened? Not saying Patterson shouldn’t have been hired with revisionist hindsight, just not assuming an outcome damn the different situations. I’ve previously pointed out the relationships...both personal and business that has instituted him as a superstar in DFW. He’s widely beloved and justly so. He’s also stubborn, hot-tempered and curmudgeonly. Check out any press conference after the Baylor game for evidence. Would have been a different persona for Knoxville media who didn’t remember Majors.

 

[Franklin Pierce]

The climate in 2008 wasn't going to allow us to hire a gimmick coach. We (or I should say the traditionalist fanbase) wanted to run pro style offense and the allure of getting Kiffin, Monte Kiffin and Ed O were too hard to pass up.

The Kiffin hire wasn't a bad hire... the contract buyout was the problem.

The Kiffin hire was a disaster.

 

[XknoxvolsX]

I'd say Leach, mostly since we could've hired him 4 times: 2008, 2009, 2012, 2017. He's always viewed Tennessee as a top 5 job and it's a place that would suit him well (unlike some top tier jobs, such as USC). I have no issue with the Pruitt hire, but I was clamoring for Leach all the way back in 2008, when we could've easily brought him in and kept John Chavis as DC.

For some reason, there's a large contingent of Leach doubters here, but I find it foolish. Leach has been doing more with less for years. No, he hasn't won a national title, but Nick Saban wouldn't be winning national titles at Wash State or Texas Tech either. The idea that Leach's system wouldn't translate to the SEC is garbage. It's translated to the NFL! It's now rare to see pro teams that aren't passing the ball at least 70% of the time.

Still insane to me that no top tier program has hired him, but a lot of it is politics. Leach is very independent and fans love him, which is something that a lot of ADs and boosters don't like; a coach that they can't control.

Not to dwell on it. Pruitt is the coach and that's all that matters, but I think if Leach were hired back in 2008, he would've won a national title here.

I agree Ghost. When Spurrier hit the SEC with the Fun and Gun it revolutionized the league. That's why we ran out of DB's at one time. Chavis took all the DB's bulked them up a little and moved them to LB for added speed. Then, they moved WR's to DB.

 

[XknoxvolsX]

Who were the candidates for the athletic director's job when Dickey retired? Did Tennessee have anybody else in mind besides Hamilton?

I remember that situation well!

That entire episode was drawn out. There was a hired search firm as well as a UT search committee. The then U.T. President Shumaker was about to go on vocation that week so he went ahead and named Hamilton. Hamilton was a finalist but he was either third or fourth as per the search firm.

 

[onevol74]

I remember that situation well!

That entire episode was drawn out. There was a hired search firm as well as a UT search committee. The then U.T. President Shumaker was about to go on vocation that week so he went ahead and named Hamilton. Hamilton was a finalist but he was either third or fourth as per the search firm.

Hamilton became the preferred candidate after getting the backing of Buzz Peterson, Pat Summit, and Phil Fulmer.