Vols rejecting Gary Patterson another lesson on incompetence

[jbr82]

Jimmy Haslam and his AD puppets

 

[KeyVol14]

It's 2019 who TF cares now

 

[butchna]

It's 2019 who TF cares now

People clicking on this thread?

 

[VolMax]

We had the opportunity to hire Patterson. We've had multiple opportunities to hire Mike Leach. There have been other great coaches interested. We just didn't hire them.

Can't tell you how many times I've been flamed/ridiculed on here for saying Leach. Wanted him in 2007 w/The Chief as DC, after Stooley and Botch. Funny to see someone refer to him as a great coach.

Firmly behind CJP but will always wonder what might've been...

 

[08Vol]

Can't tell you how many times I've been flamed/ridiculed on here for saying Leach. Wanted him in 2007 w/The Chief as DC, after Stooley and Botch. Funny to see someone refer to him as a great coach.

Firmly behind CJP but will always wonder what might've been...

View attachment 209705

Love people that put out stuff like “scoring at will on the Bammers”. Leech’s offense is one based on timing and designed to take advantage of defenses not having enough skilled secondary guys to cover all the receivers on the field. He has done well in the Big12 and Pac12 due to most teams not having dominant D-lines. However their rival brought in Chris Peterson who has been building Washington up like an SEC team, focusing on the D-line. Over the last 5 years Leech has scored 13,10, 17, 14, and 15 on Washington, getting blown out in all 5 games. Bowl games against the Big10 have looked bad too. 2017 against Michigan St they scored 15. 2016 against Minnesota they scored 12.

Leech’s offense would look great against the G5 teams and bottom of the SEC but would get blown up by every team with a good D-line (almost all SEC teams).

 

[OldandStillaVol]

Hamilton became the preferred candidate after getting the backing of Buzz Peterson, Pat Summit, and Phil Fulmer.

That was my recollection also. Underscores why those hiring need to be cautious in considering internal candidates for a promotion. Positive recommendations from colleagues don't mean much because they aren't in a position to honestly judge.

 

[VolMax]

Love people that put out stuff like “scoring at will on the Bammers”. Leech’s offense is one based on timing and designed to take advantage of defenses not having enough skilled secondary guys to cover all the receivers on the field. He has done well in the Big12 and Pac12 due to most teams not having dominant D-lines. However their rival brought in Chris Peterson who has been building Washington up like an SEC team, focusing on the D-line. Over the last 5 years Leech has scored 13,10, 17, 14, and 15 on Washington, getting blown out in all 5 games. Bowl games against the Big10 have looked bad too. 2017 against Michigan St they scored 15. 2016 against Minnesota they scored 12.

Leech’s offense would look great against the G5 teams and bottom of the SEC but would get blown up by every team with a good D-line (almost all SEC teams).

He’s at Wash St, for God’s sake. The fact they’re even playing in bowl games is a miracle. How have we looked vs Big Ten teams in bowl games the last few years?

 

[dduncan4163]

I'm plenty happy with Pruitt but Leach would have been a home run hire Imo. The man is a offensive guru and his personality is infectious. He would have been the second coming of the Spurrier imo.

 

[Behr]

He’s at Wash St, for God’s sake. The fact they’re even playing in bowl games is a miracle. How have we looked vs Big Ten teams in bowl games the last few years?

I'm not sure what your point is. We looked pretty good in 14, 15 and 16 against Big 10 teams in bowls.

Are you saying if we had hired him instead of Pruitt we would have gone bowling in 18?

 

[TNnative]

I was having a good day until having you reopen this wound Duncan.

Give Duncan a break. After what he and his family has been through, that is the last guy on here I am getting offended at.

Duncan, you all are still in my prayers. Good to see you still with us.

 

[TNnative]

I'm plenty happy with Pruitt but Leach would have been a home run hire Imo. The man is a offensive guru and his personality is infectious. He would have been the second coming of the Spurrier imo.

I don't know if Leach is quite Spurrier. But if he had been here instead of Kiffin/Dooley/Jones? It would have been more fun.

 

[FLVOL_79]

Give Duncan a break. After what he and his family has been through, that is the last guy on here I am getting offended at.

Duncan, you all are still in my prayers. Good to see you still with us.

sarcasm bro

 

[butchna]

He’s at Wash St, for God’s sake. The fact they’re even playing in bowl games is a miracle. How have we looked vs Big Ten teams in bowl games the last few years?

Hate crimed em?

 

[Volador]

Gruden. Soon.

 

[MikeVol44]

Patterson wasn’t this known homerun in 2009 and some of the points already made might’ve prevented that narrative in the SEC. Sometimes a HC makes one move too many and it doesn’t work out...example Dennis Franchione. Guy was a superstar at every stop along the way until Texas A&M. What happened? Not saying Patterson shouldn’t have been hired with revisionist hindsight, just not assuming an outcome damn the different situations. I’ve previously pointed out the relationships...both personal and business that has instituted him as a superstar in DFW. He’s widely beloved and justly so. He’s also stubborn, hot-tempered and curmudgeonly. Check out any press conference after the Baylor game for evidence. Would have been a different persona for Knoxville media who didn’t remember Majors.

I haven't seen your other posts about GP.

I don't think citing Franchione as an example of what potentially could've happened with GP coming to Knoxville is a valid one.

Franchione was an offensive innovator, but he was a selfish, self-serving dude who flat out lied to the Bama players about "...holding on to the rope" during NCAA sanctions while planning his rapid departure to aTm. And he didn't even have the character to tell the Bama players in person that he was leaving. He was all about himself--and it finally caught up with him at aTm.

Gary Patterson seems to be the exact opposite--the difference being that he seems to LOVE the game and is a TEACHER of the game of football. For all of Major's faults--he loves the game and was a teacher of the game.

Sure--every coach out there in the profession has a degree of self-interest...i.e., they have a family to provide for and a future to secure for them--as well as a legacy to think about.
And almost every elite coach in the sport is stubborn, hot-tempered, and somewhat curmudgeonly--Bear Bryant, Neyland, Saban, Schembechler, Hayes, John McKay, Spurrier, etc....

I don't want a coach who isn't ill-tempered after losing!

Osborne from Nebraska....Petersen from Boise St./Washington may be the exception to the rule.

I don't think it's too far-fetched to believe that hiring GP as our HC back in 2009 would've yielded much better results over the last 10 years than the trio of LK, Dufus, and Lyle.

Do you actually think that GP would not have been able to do better than those three?

 

[MikeVol44]

Love people that put out stuff like “scoring at will on the Bammers”. Leech’s offense is one based on timing and designed to take advantage of defenses not having enough skilled secondary guys to cover all the receivers on the field. He has done well in the Big12 and Pac12 due to most teams not having dominant D-lines. However their rival brought in Chris Peterson who has been building Washington up like an SEC team, focusing on the D-line. Over the last 5 years Leech has scored 13,10, 17, 14, and 15 on Washington, getting blown out in all 5 games. Bowl games against the Big10 have looked bad too. 2017 against Michigan St they scored 15. 2016 against Minnesota they scored 12.

Leech’s offense would look great against the G5 teams and bottom of the SEC but would get blown up by every team with a good D-line (almost all SEC teams).

Just let him beat a Washington team coached by Petersen just one time before thinking he can compete against the SEC's top 4.

 

[butchna]

I haven't seen your other posts about GP.

I don't think citing Franchione as an example of what potentially could've happened with GP coming to Knoxville is a valid one.

Franchione was an offensive innovator, but he was a selfish, self-serving dude who flat out lied to the Bama players about "...holding on to the rope" during NCAA sanctions while planning his rapid departure to aTm. And he didn't even have the character to tell the Bama players in person that he was leaving. He was all about himself--and it finally caught up with him at aTm.

Gary Patterson seems to be the exact opposite--the difference being that he seems to LOVE the game and is a TEACHER of the game of football. For all of Major's faults--he loves the game and was a teacher of the game.

Sure--every coach out there in the profession has a degree of self-interest...i.e., they have a family to provide for and a future to secure for them--as well as a legacy to think about.
And almost every elite coach in the sport is stubborn, hot-tempered, and somewhat curmudgeonly--Bear Bryant, Neyland, Saban, Schembechler, Hayes, John McKay, Spurrier, etc....

I don't want a coach who isn't ill-tempered after losing!

Osborne from Nebraska....Petersen from Boise St./Washington may be the exception to the rule.

I don't think it's too far-fetched to believe that hiring GP as our HC back in 2009 would've yielded much better results over the last 10 years than the trio of LK, Dufus, and Lyle.

Do you actually think that GP would not have been able to do better than those three?

Not stating emphatically either way. I’d feel safe declaring him a better COACH than all 3. He’s a better program builder than all 3 I just don’t see that program at the top level of the SEC...which I’m sure you’d agree is all fans paramount goal? As for Franchione, Saban wasn’t truthful about his future plans, Urban Meyer...list goes on and on. A little sleaze never cut into success. Main point with Franchione is that because a process works for you at every previous stop doesn’t ensure guaranteed success. No way that A&M shouldn’t have worked. He was landing recruits, instilling his system and it just went kerplunk. That’s my OPINION on what would have happened to Patterson in Knoxville. Most likely way better than what we’ve endured but it would’ve taken the next guy building on it to get us back...imo.

 

[MikeVol44]

Not stating emphatically either way. I’d feel safe declaring him a better COACH than all 3. He’s a better program builder than all 3 I just don’t see that program at the top level of the SEC...which I’m sure you’d agree is all fans paramount goal? As for Franchione, Saban wasn’t truthful about his future plans, Urban Meyer...list goes on and on. A little sleaze never cut into success. Main point with Franchione is that because a process works for you at every previous stop doesn’t ensure guaranteed success. No way that A&M shouldn’t have worked. He was landing recruits, instilling his system and it just went kerplunk. That’s my OPINION on what would have happened to Patterson in Knoxville. Most likely way better than what we’ve endured but it would’ve taken the next guy building on it to get us back...imo.

Okay...I get your opinion. And I would agree with you that the entire discussion is one of hindsight. And I did say earlier that I believe hiring GP would've been NO GUARANTEE of SEC championships.
It is my opinion that the VOL FB program would've been in much better shape after 10 years of GP than what we've seen over the last 10 years. I think we agree on that point.

Bringing Saban and Meyer into the same conversation with Franchione is a huge stretch. Both Saban and Meyer have won in the tougher conference settings that exposed Franchione. He just didn't stay at Bama long enough to get exposed.
Franchione was 4-16 against ranked teams while at aTm. How did Saban do in his first 4 years at Bama? Meyer in his first 4 years at Florida?

There really is no good reason to mention Franchione's name in the same breath as those 2 elite coaches.

I do confess that I like Saban while absolutely despising Meyer.

And I do acknowledge that it is just my opinion that GP would've had better success at UT than the 3 blind mice--or than Franchione did at aTm.

We may not agree on everything, but I do think we agree on the main thing.

 

[XknoxvolsX]

People clicking on this thread?

My ole pal, when I read this, I almost choked on my Dr. Pepper and had to spit it out!

 

[dduncan4163]

Give Duncan a break. After what he and his family has been through, that is the last guy on here I am getting offended at.

Duncan, you all are still in my prayers. Good to see you still with us.

Thank you brother

 

[dduncan4163]

I don't know if Leach is quite Spurrier. But if he had been here instead of Kiffin/Dooley/Jones? It would have been more fun.

Every time I watch that I think of this

 

[VolMax]

No Behr, lol.

Are you saying you were happy with Botch? No, you’re not.

WSU won PACx championships in 1917, 1930, 1997, and 2002. You can’t say Leach isn’t a damn good coach. We’d be in much better shape
had we hired him rather than Kiffie, Drools, or Botch...take your pick.

 

[jayisavol]

I would have rather been on probation and won 10 games a year with Kiffen than what we have had since. But I'll also take Pruitt now.

 

[chattavol420]

I really only blame Hamilton for not having a huge buyout that would’ve prevented kidding from leaving for usc. And kidding definitely would’ve signed it at the time. We had an amazing staff under him. They might not have won nattys but they’d have landed top 5 classes galore. And prevented us from ever falling to the level that Dooley allowed. But the lifting decision wasn’t terrible. I actually applaud Hamilton for going after the sexy hire and getting it done. His flaw was not preventing him from leaving. And the decision to sack fulmer was right. We were at a plateau with him. Hamilton was way better than hart. To me that’s where most of our issues started. He was so unqualified for the job. The butch jones hire was absolutely terrible. And then he extended him over and over again. Thank god he’s gone. But we don’t know that fulmer will be any better. I mean, fulmer immediately goes out and hires an assistant from bama (and life long bammer I might add) with no head coaching experience that sounds like a high school drop out in an interview. Doesn’t really fit the mold of national championship winning coaches. But who knows.

 

[VolMax]

Taking pitiful WSU to #2 in their division is good enough for me. They were 20-63 over 8 years before Leach got there. They've gone 37-14 over the last 4 years with Leach. Recruiting to TN vs WSU would significantly upgrade the talent.

Again, happy to see what CJP does...but would've been happy taking a chance with Leach at any point over the last ten years.