Vaccine or not?

[The Original Fade]

No one is defending it as a great press conference. Just calling out your inaccuracies

What inaccuracies? He advocated for it by publicly asking the doc and saying it should be looked into on National TV - his intent was clear, otherwise he would’ve asked those questions and made that suggestion behind closed doors

 

[Sea Ray]

It does certainly appear, given the data from other countries and that emerging in the U.S., that naturally-acquired immunity is more protective against the most recent predominant variant.

Do we have numbers on how many people are naturally immune and did not get the vax? Seems like a tough number to nail down. I honestly don't know what the answer is but the information we're being fed is confusing to say the least:

Prolonged exposure, indoors and at high concentrations, is likely the cause of vaccinated individuals becoming infected,” a July 21 statement from Nantucket’s website reads. “The delta variant has also shown breakthrough ability against natural immunity and can reinfect those who have already had COVID. Please keep your safety, and the safety of those around you, in mind.”

Island Delta variant cases grow - The Martha's Vineyard Times

 

[RikidyBones]

What inaccuracies? He advocated for it by publicly asking the doc and saying it should be looked into on National TV - his intent was clear, otherwise he would’ve asked those questions and made that suggestion behind closed doors

It's so clear you have to decipher intent based on when and where the question was asked. Lmao. Dumb.

 

[evillawyer]

When have I ever advocated for "waiting?"

As for your initial question: time will tell. I hope and pray that the numerous long-term concerns amount to nothing. Obviously, the future unknowns are more of an issue for the younger/healthy or recovered population, and vaccination makes more sense for the older/at-risk.

Still not following. Let's suppose for the purpose of argument that natural immunity is more protective than vaccine-based immunity. I'm 25 and deciding whether I should get the jab or get sick and get it the natural way. If I get vaxxed, I'm highly likely to not get COVID due to the vaccine. If I'm one of the poor chaps with a breakthrough case, it will likely be very mild. Bonus points, I'd get an additional boost of immunity from my breakthrough case.

If I'm not vaxxed, I will almost certainly get delta if I live my life in a pre-covid fashion. I will likely survive, but I will almost certainly have a worse bout with covid than if vaccinated. Given the viral loads associated with delta, I will likely be sicker and infect more people than if I had been vaccinated and had a rare breakthrough case. Those potential adverse consequences must be put on the scale too (not just death).

Still not seeing the argument for just acquiring natural immunity.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Do we have numbers on how many people are naturally immune and did not get the vax?

I have not seen that reported anywhere.

I did read a report from Israel (?) that revealed a significant number of Delta infections in vaccinated people, but not in recovered ones. Obviously, this makes sense, as we know that the immune system recognizes multiple targets on the actual virus, not just the spike protein. As long as some of those remain largely unchanged, a mutation in the spike protein would not be likely to escape natural immunity.

 

[The Original Fade]

It's so clear you have to decipher intent based on when and where the question was asked. Lmao. Dumb.

Intent is clear precisely because of when and where the question was asked.

Since you’re defending Trump on this, which disinfectant did you use? Just curious

 

[kiddiedoc]

Still not following. Let's suppose for the purpose of argument that natural immunity is more protective than vaccine-based immunity. I'm 25 and deciding whether I should get the jab or get sick and get it the natural way. If I get vaxxed, I'm highly likely to not get COVID due to the vaccine. If I'm one of the poor chaps with a breakthrough case, it will likely be very mild. Bonus points, I'd get an additional boost of immunity from my breakthrough case.

If I'm not vaxxed, I will almost certainly get delta if I live my life in a pre-covid fashion. I will likely survive, but I will almost certainly have a worse bout with covid than if vaccinated. Given the viral loads associated with delta, I will likely be sicker and infect more people than if I had been vaccinated and had a rare breakthrough case. Those potential adverse consequences must be put on the scale too (not just death).

Still not seeing the argument for just acquiring natural immunity.

It's hard for you to understand if you are convinced there will be no long-term risks from the vaccine.

Again, I hope there aren't, but there are a number of really smart people who have voiced concerns that could prove much more of a risk to a healthy 25-year old than the virus itself (which approaches zero at that age).

 

[evillawyer]

From: Will Delta Make Me Sick Again?

Researchers are investigating how likely people are to get Covid-19 a second time. At present, we know that reinfection can happen, as can so-called breakthrough infections in people who are fully vaccinated.

More research on delta is needed, but a new study Thursday suggested the variant is able to evade natural antibodies made in our bodies after infection. Looking at blood drawn from 162 patients, scientists found that while antibodies from people infected with Sars-CoV-2 didn’t neutralize delta very well, after just one vaccine dose, antibodies from people with a previous infection were able to neutralize all four strains of the virus tested.

Antibodies from people who had only one dose of a vaccine and hadn’t previously been infected with the virus didn’t fare as well. Antibodies from people who were fully vaccinated but hadn’t had Covid performed well, confirming other evidence that the vaccines are extremely effective against delta. The early evidence suggests that if you’re unvaccinated—whether you’ve had Covid or not—you are more vulnerable to delta infection. Once again: vaccination for the win.

 

[kiddiedoc]

Also, clarifying: I was in favor of a targeted approach, only, last year -- protecting the vulnerable. It is very possible that this approach would have yielded a high enough degree of immunity in the U.S. that this variant would have never propagated here.

 

[RikidyBones]

Intent is clear precisely because of when and where the question was asked.

Since you’re defending Trump on this, which disinfectant did you use? Just curious

So my argument is he did not suggest injecting disinfectant and the people that took it that way are stupid.

That convinces you that I would inject disinfectant? You have a clear issue with critcal thinking.

 

[evillawyer]

It's hard for you to understand if you are convinced there will be no long-term risks from the vaccine.

Again, I hope there aren't, but there are a number of really smart people who have voiced concerns that could prove much more of a risk to a healthy 25-year old than the virus itself (which approaches zero at that age).

Three things to know about the long-term side effects of COVID vaccines

 

[kiddiedoc]

From: Will Delta Make Me Sick Again?

Researchers are investigating how likely people are to get Covid-19 a second time. At present, we know that reinfection can happen, as can so-called breakthrough infections in people who are fully vaccinated.

More research on delta is needed, but a new study Thursday suggested the variant is able to evade natural antibodies made in our bodies after infection. Looking at blood drawn from 162 patients, scientists found that while antibodies from people infected with Sars-CoV-2 didn’t neutralize delta very well, after just one vaccine dose, antibodies from people with a previous infection were able to neutralize all four strains of the virus tested.

Antibodies from people who had only one dose of a vaccine and hadn’t previously been infected with the virus didn’t fare as well. Antibodies from people who were fully vaccinated but hadn’t had Covid performed well, confirming other evidence that the vaccines are extremely effective against delta. The early evidence suggests that if you’re unvaccinated—whether you’ve had Covid or not—you are more vulnerable to delta infection. Once again: vaccination for the win.

This is contrary to what we are seeing around the world (and now in the U.S.).

 

[tnmarktx]

Let's agree that the science is not quite settled on this. Therefore let's not make blanket statements like " natural immunity is actually as effective if not more than the mRNA vaccine ". There's some science that's showing the best immunity is natural plus vaccine. As for me personally, I think natural immunity should be lumped with vax immunity when discussing the immune population but I'm not yet ready to declare definitively that one is better than the other

I'm totally good with that.

 

[C-south]

99.5% of unvaccinated are the ones being hospitalized and dying but the people pushing naturally-acquired immunity must not care about them.

What are the numbers because context matters. How many unvaccinated are getting the virus? How many of that number are being hospitalized? How many of that number are dying?

 

[tnmarktx]

Still not following. Let's suppose for the purpose of argument that natural immunity is more protective than vaccine-based immunity. I'm 25 and deciding whether I should get the jab or get sick and get it the natural way. If I get vaxxed, I'm highly likely to not get COVID due to the vaccine. If I'm one of the poor chaps with a breakthrough case, it will likely be very mild. Bonus points, I'd get an additional boost of immunity from my breakthrough case.

If I'm not vaxxed, I will almost certainly get delta if I live my life in a pre-covid fashion. I will likely survive, but I will almost certainly have a worse bout with covid than if vaccinated. Given the viral loads associated with delta, I will likely be sicker and infect more people than if I had been vaccinated and had a rare breakthrough case. Those potential adverse consequences must be put on the scale too (not just death).

Still not seeing the argument for just acquiring natural immunity.

I'd say there's no argument to wait for natural immunity. If you contracted covid and made it through it, I'd say you'd be ok with your natural immunity, especially at age 25.

 

[JacketVol]

I fail to see how asking the scientists at a WH press briefing whether these were viable options was a whole lot better than actually suggesting them.

Come on.

You really don’t get it. Who cares that you don’t. ?

 

[evillawyer]

I'd say there's no argument to wait for natural immunity. If you contracted covid and made it through it, I'd say you'd be ok with your natural immunity, especially at age 25.

But what do you risk by getting vaxxed as well?

This is contrary to what we are seeing around the world (and now in the U.S.).

What's the argument you're trying to make? That if you've been previously infected, no vaccine necessary?

 

[JacketVol]

People being selfish, irresponsible, and stupidly loyal to the stupid former POTUS and his stupid, ignorant media purveyors of misinformation and not getting vaccinated is making everyone's collective life worse.

Had we gotten to 70 pct or so this would largely be over. Instead it is going to linger, kill people, and cause economic slowdown. So pointless. So moronic.

Get the shot. It's so easy.

It won’t be over when 70 percent get the shot. People still getting it and now perhaps boosters. Has nothing to do with Trump. He also did the stupid multi months lockdowns.

It is an attempt to see where the line will or will not be drawn to change America to be more ready for a one world government. It is what it is.

 

[Orangeburst]

It won’t be over when 70 percent get the shot. People still getting it and now perhaps boosters. Has nothing to do with Trump. He also did the stupid multi months lockdowns.

It is an attempt to see where the line will or will not be drawn to change America to be more ready for a one world government. It is what it is.

Check the bitcoin thread. Coming fast.

 

[JacketVol]

Ask Phil Valentine.

Ask my friend whose mother got shot Monday and died from it by Saturday.

 

[evillawyer]

People being selfish, irresponsible, and stupidly loyal to the stupid former POTUS and his stupid, ignorant media purveyors of misinformation and not getting vaccinated is making everyone's collective life worse.

Had we gotten to 70 pct or so this would largely be over. Instead it is going to linger, kill people, and cause economic slowdown. So pointless. So moronic.

Get the shot. It's so easy.

Yes, agree wholeheartedly. This is not difficult. Get a shot. Go back for a second one a few weeks later. Then live life. If you get infected, it will in all likelihood be mild. Even if it's not mild, you're in better shape than if you hadn't gotten the jabs.

 

[evillawyer]

This is contrary to what we are seeing around the world (and now in the U.S.).

UK warns of increased risk of Covid reinfection with Delta variant

Would like to see the stats of reinfection rates for those with previous infection vs those with previous infection + vaccine.

 

[VolStrom]

Yes, agree wholeheartedly. This is not difficult. Get a shot. Go back for a second one a few weeks later. Then live life. If you get infected, it will in all likelihood be mild. Even if it's not mild, you're in better shape than if you hadn't gotten the jabs.

Talking to yourself again?

 

[Velo Vol]

Highlights from an anti-vaxx medical convention.

 

[evillawyer]

Highlights from an anti-vaxx medical convention.

She sounds rational.