USU Scrimmage

[butchna]

Nah, I guess you guys are right. All coaches are responsible for is recruiting and getting guys on the bus. They certainly aren't paid enough to improve players or discipline them. And of course we should NEVER look at what someone has done in the past to inform us of what they might do in the future. That just wouldn't be FAIR to them.

And while we're at it, let's remember rule #1. It is fine to say players "suck" or a too slow, too weak, et al... But NEVER even in hyperbole question a coach's talent or ability or suggest that they are accountable for anything that happens in a game.

I think you're being fecalicous :no:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

 

[MustafaRasta]

I think you're being fecalicous :no:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

I think you know it.

 

[sjt18]

I think you're being fecalicous :no:
Posted via VolNation Mobile

Not at all. You guys have finally convinced me.

Rule #1- the coaching staff's ability, actions, or decisions are NOT to be questioned.

Rule #2- if anything makes you think that you should question the coaches even in the least... refer to Rule #1.

I got it. Thanks for helping me have an open and objective mind about it.:whistling:

 

[butchna]

Not at all. You guys have finally convinced me.

Rule #1- the coaching staff's ability, actions, or decisions are NOT to be questioned.

Rule #2- if anything makes you think that you should question the coaches even in the least... refer to Rule #1.

I got it. Thanks for helping me have an open and objective mind about it.:whistling:

How come I think you're going to violate these newly minted rules...before I even submit this post?

 

[ag4fr]

A few of you guys are really missing your true calling in life.

If, from watching a few seconds of video, you can assess the height, weight, speed and ability of groups of players, you really are wasting your time in your current jobs.

You should quit now and go offer your services to NFL and College Football programs all across the country. You could stand to make millions of dollars so easily...

Just FYI, based on actual roster/depth chart data, the Utah State starting front 6 on Offense (OL + TE) will average 6-4 290. The Utah State starting front 7 on Defense (DL + LB) will average 6-3 255.

Not that anyone would question any of your expert assessments based on watching a few seconds of video...

 

[sjt18]

How come I think you're going to violate these newly minted rules...before I even submit this post?

Maybe because you seem to have developed an oversensitivity to everything I post and a habit of parsing every sentence down the the syllable in an effort to find something to argue about?

I use a bit of hyperbole... that you or others could have used without issue... and you raise a stink because I did it. You seem to have ignored all of the positive and even optimistic remarks I have made about the O... then this.

 

[sjt18]

A few of you guys are really missing your true calling in life.

If, from watching a few seconds of video, you can assess the height, weight, speed and ability of groups of players, you really are wasting your time in your current jobs.

You should quit now and go offer your services to NFL and College Football programs all across the country. You could stand to make millions of dollars so easily...

Just FYI, based on actual roster/depth chart data, the Utah State starting front 6 on Offense (OL + TE) will average 6-4 290. The Utah State starting front 7 on Defense (DL + LB) will average 6-3 255.

Not that anyone would question any of your expert assessments based on watching a few seconds of video...

I don't think you can make a complete assessment. But unless they were holding back, your LB's are slow. Your DB's didn't look fast nor physical. I couldn't tell as much about your other players except for the QB staring receivers down.

Frankly I just do not believe you are replacing your lost players with the same caliber of players. OTOH, I think the biggest question mark for UT as far as replacing players is the DL. Otherwise, they either return guys or have players/units that are likely to be as good or better... in some cases MUCH better.

IOW's, as we sit here a little more than 5 months from the game... I don't think it is going to be nearly as competitive as you've convinced yourself it is going to be.

 

[Orange_Crush]

I don't think you can make a complete assessment. But unless they were holding back, your LB's are slow. Your DB's didn't look fast nor physical. I couldn't tell as much about your other players except for the QB staring receivers down.

Frankly I just do not believe you are replacing your lost players with the same caliber of players. OTOH, I think the biggest question mark for UT as far as replacing players is the DL. Otherwise, they either return guys or have players/units that are likely to be as good or better... in some cases MUCH better.

IOW's, as we sit here a little more than 5 months from the game... I don't think it is going to be nearly as competitive as you've convinced yourself it is going to be.

He's still surprised that he comes on here and we still don't quake in the face of his Sunbelt-level team?

lol

 

[ag4fr]

He's still surprised that he comes on here and we still don't quake in the face of his Sunbelt-level team?

lol

No. I don't think we are good enough that anyone is going to be quaking in their boots.

On the other hand, quite a few of you folks have a very high opinion of a team that averages 1 SEC win per year for the past 3 years.

You guys would be a better judge of the quality of Sun Belt teams. After all, that is where so many of your wins are coming from lately.

And your other wins are not too impressive either. With the exception of the win against USCe (very good win IMHO and your team should be congratulated), the combined record of all the teams UT has defeated in the past 3 years is something like 49-96. Not really all that impressive...

I promise not to be surpised that you are not quivering in fear, if you promise not to be surprised that we are not quivering in fear. LOL.

 

[MustafaRasta]

No. I don't think we are good enough that anyone is going to be quaking in their boots.

On the other hand, quite a few of you folks have a very high opinion of a team that averages 1 SEC win per year for the past 3 years.

You guys would be a better judge of the quality of Sun Belt teams. After all, that is where so many of your wins are coming from lately.

And your other wins are not too impressive either. With the exception of the win against USCe (very good win IMHO and your team should be congratulated), the combined record of all the teams UT has defeated in the past 3 years is something like 49-96. Not really all that impressive...

I promise not to be surpised that you are not quivering in fear, if you promise not to be surprised that we are not quivering in fear. LOL.

Hold on there Junior...any one of the teams from your conference including yours is considered a cupcake as much as any sun belt team. If we scheduled the whole WAC as OC games in consecutive years would you say we were padding our wins?

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Maybe because you seem to have developed an oversensitivity to everything I post and a habit of parsing every sentence down the the syllable in an effort to find something to argue about?

I use a bit of hyperbole... that you or others could have used without issue... and you raise a stink because I did it. You seem to have ignored all of the positive and even optimistic remarks I have made about the O... then this.

The problem is that it's obvious you have little to football knowledge and you come into every thread spouting off your opinion like it's the one and only truth. You get your panties in a wad and pitch a fit if anyone uses sarcasm or satire to point out the absurdity of your impatience and lack f knowledge and call them "liars."

Nobody here is against questioning the staff, but anybody with a lick of football knowledge knows that it is unfair to judge them based on the talent they had left over in 2013 and all the cleaning up that had to be done from the previous regime. You act like nobody on here will doubt our coaches if we have more 5-7 seasons. Of course we will. We just have the common sense that you lack to take a wait and see approach before we call for anybody's head. Butch is going to get 3 seasons so you might as well wait until you have more evidence to pass judgment on our coaches.


Also, as far as Jancek goes, you always mention how bad the defenses at Georgia were as if they were his defenses. They were Willie Martinez's. You talk about judging coaches off of their previous jobs and completely disregard the success Jancek has at Cincy.

The staff has shown at the very least they can bring in some high level to elite talent. That's half the battle. If they can keep that up, then good seasons will come even if we don't have an "elite" staff. Les Miles has made a living off of that.

But if you had it your way we'd just fire our staff two seasons if they underachieved again this year and start the whole cycle over. You don't place enough value in stability. Yes everybody here hopes our staff is elite. No we don't all think they are and support them blindly. If we regress or don't progress we won't support them as much as we do. But we don't see the point in skipping the middle part like you so often seem to and going straight to "fire Jancek and Azzani and Bajakian: if players don't play flawlessly it's the coaches fault."

You're knowledge of football is poor to nill. You claim that our 2013 squad had the depth and talent to compete with Oregon, Auburn, etc. You are the only person who has/will ever make that argument. Because it's bad and stupid and you should feel bad.

In conclusion,

1. People respond badly to the points you make more because you're the most intolerable person on this board than because you raise invalid (though premature) questions.

2. Your lack if football knowledge is obvious. Just because you're a good manager at Krispy Kreme in Butthole, Missouri doesn't mean you know jack about how to manage a football team or analyze coaches.

3. The fact that you get so defensive if anybody questions you doesn't help at all.

4. You seem to think that your opinions are fact and everybody who doesn't share your opinions is wrong. Facts only matter when you use them. Facts that seem to contradict your opinions are inconsequential or irrelevant.

5. People feel good about the direction we're heading and you're being a mega buzzkill. Nobody likes buzzkills. Especially self righteous ones.

 

[MustafaRasta]

I'll give you a "BOOM"

 

[ag4fr]

Hold on there Junior...any one of the teams from your conference including yours is considered a cupcake as much as any sun belt team. If we scheduled the whole WAC as OC games in consecutive years would you say we were padding our wins?

I could not care less if you look at us as a cupcake. Your performance on the field does not back up your assertion.

I also could not care less about who you schedule in OOC. That's your deal. Schedule Austin Peay for every game for all I care.

Your conference is your conference and ours is ours. They are different. I get that. There are many pros to being in the SEC and there are tough things about being in the SEC.

Conference and OOC games combined, UT is averaging about 1 win per year over teams with any sort of winning record. Period. SEC or OOC.

Maybe UT is now the cupcake on a lot of team's schedule.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

I could not care less if you look at us as a cupcake. Your performance on the field does not back up your assertion.

I also could not care less about who you schedule in OOC. That's your deal. Schedule Austin Peay for every game for all I care.

Your conference is your conference and ours is ours. They are different. I get that. There are many pros to being in the SEC and there are tough things about being in the SEC.

Conference and OOC games combined, UT is averaging about 1 win per year over teams with any sort of winning record. Period. SEC or OOC.

Maybe UT is now the cupcake on a lot of team's schedule.

Yes, we're the cupcake on Bama and OU's schedule. And we'll still stomp you upstarts.

Perspective. Get some.

 

[orangebloodgmc]

I could not care less if you look at us as a cupcake. Your performance on the field does not back up your assertion.

I also could not care less about who you schedule in OOC. That's your deal. Schedule Austin Peay for every game for all I care.

Your conference is your conference and ours is ours. They are different. I get that. There are many pros to being in the SEC and there are tough things about being in the SEC.

Conference and OOC games combined, UT is averaging about 1 win per year over teams with any sort of winning record. Period. SEC or OOC.

Maybe UT is now the cupcake on a lot of team's schedule.

The bad thing -- for you guys -- is that we won't be playing you with last year's team. :zeitung_lesen:

 

[PassedOutAwake]

Lol i love the logic. Were no good because we keep losing to top 10 teams. Put most teams in our shoes and it'll be similar. Cool, you barely lost to USC and pride yourselves on keeping it close... Yet they wouldve put up 5 or 6 wins on our schedule. You beat an over rated NIU team that would have put up 4 or 5 on our schedule if they got lucky

 

[sjt18]

The problem is that it's obvious you have little to football knowledge and you come into every thread spouting off your opinion like it's the one and only truth. You get your panties in a wad and pitch a fit if anyone uses sarcasm or satire to point out the absurdity of your impatience and lack f knowledge and call them "liars."

Lying is lying... I state opinions. They're based in facts. The facts aren't opinions. For instance, to claim that a team that has to slide a DE to DT and on occasion had to start a 265 lb walk on at DT is a better situation than a team with 4 or 5 guys with SEC size and athleticism... is not an opinion that respects fact.

I am probably less absolute when I do than 99% of the posters here. You just don't like the opinions.

Nobody here is against questioning the staff, but anybody with a lick of football knowledge knows that it is unfair to judge them based on the talent they had left over in 2013 and all the cleaning up that had to be done from the previous regime.

Why? No one is judging them for not winning the SEC. Some of us are just criticizing the fact that they were blown out more than any UT team in at least 50 years and couldn't beat Vandy with the HC's stated goal on the line.

You act like nobody on here will doubt our coaches if we have more 5-7 seasons. Of course we will.

Really? That's really not the way it sounds. You should try reading with a bit more open mind or maybe brushing up on your "football knowledge".

We just have the common sense that you lack to take a wait and see approach before we call for anybody's head.

First you protest my saying people lie... then you incorporate a lie into your response. Whose head have I called for? I said in this threat that if UT's QB stares down receivers the way USU's QB did then the OC should be fired. It was hyperbole since I HOPE we can all expect UT's QB not to do that, right? But still... I didn't call for his head. In fact, I have stated a lot of hope about his unit AND ESPECIALLY more hope about his QB's than most of you.

Butch is going to get 3 seasons so you might as well wait until you have more evidence to pass judgment on our coaches.

Please cite one place where I have said he should be fired before 3 years or have passed final judgment. I have expressed doubts based on what has happened so far... NOT CONCLUSIONS... just doubts.

Also, as far as Jancek goes, you always mention how bad the defenses at Georgia were as if they were his defenses. They were Willie Martinez's. You talk about judging coaches off of their previous jobs and completely disregard the success Jancek has at Cincy.

How long was Jancek at UGA? Oh sorry, that's right... coaches aren't responsible for results.

But then again... when did Cincy move to the SEC or start playing SEC level competition?

The staff has shown at the very least they can bring in some high level to elite talent.

And... I've praised that... but that fact isn't convenient to your narrative.

But if you had it your way we'd just fire our staff two seasons if they underachieved again this year and start the whole cycle over.

Really? Please cite one shred of proof for that... or have you lied again?

You don't place enough value in stability.

Stable mediocrity? Stable poor coaching? No. I don't.

Yes everybody here hopes our staff is elite. No we don't all think they are and support them blindly. If we regress or don't progress we won't support them as much as we do. But we don't see the point in skipping the middle part like you so often seem to and going straight to "fire Jancek and Azzani and Bajakian: if players don't play flawlessly it's the coaches fault."

Not what I've said... but then again when you are on a roll why start having respect for truth or facts now?

You're knowledge of football is poor to nill. You claim that our 2013 squad had the depth and talent to compete with Oregon, Auburn, etc. You are the only person who has/will ever make that argument. Because it's bad and stupid and you should feel bad.

Compete with... or not roll over like a FCS homecoming opponent?

In conclusion,

1. People respond badly to the points you make more because you're the most intolerable person on this board than because you raise invalid (though premature) questions.

Sorry you don't have the *courage* to be challenged.

2. Your lack if football knowledge is obvious. Just because you're a good manager at Krispy Kreme in Butthole, Missouri doesn't mean you know jack about how to manage a football team or analyze coaches.

But I keep backing my opinions with facts and reason and all you can do is get mad and resort to stupid stuff like this?

3. The fact that you get so defensive if anybody questions you doesn't help at all.

My goodness... how ironic.

4. You seem to think that your opinions are fact and everybody who doesn't share your opinions is wrong. Facts only matter when you use them. Facts that seem to contradict your opinions are inconsequential or irrelevant.

No. Here's how a discussion like this or a debate goes. One person states an opinion and backs it with facts. Then... the other person states an opinion and backs it with facts. Then they discuss the merits or else criticize the weaknesses of the other's reasoning. If you can't handle that then please put me on ignore or grow up.

5. People feel good about the direction we're heading and you're being a mega buzzkill. Nobody likes buzzkills. Especially self righteous ones.

I like some things and have doubts about others. You have found it convenient to completely ignore the positive stuff... and in reality to pick at the negative stuff until it blows up.

 

[sjt18]

Yes, we're the cupcake on Bama and OU's schedule. And we'll still stomp you upstarts.

Perspective. Get some.

Honestly... I don't think he has the first clue about what's coming. I still don't know about the D... but I suspect the O is going to trample them.

 

[Teetfeeler]

I could not care less if you look at us as a cupcake. Your performance on the field does not back up your assertion.

I also could not care less about who you schedule in OOC. That's your deal. Schedule Austin Peay for every game for all I care.

Your conference is your conference and ours is ours. They are different. I get that. There are many pros to being in the SEC and there are tough things about being in the SEC.

Conference and OOC games combined, UT is averaging about 1 win per year over teams with any sort of winning record. Period. SEC or OOC.

Maybe UT is now the cupcake on a lot of team's schedule.

I bet it made your day to come here and see a thread even taking bout your team, didn't it? Enjoy your stay. I hear our board is top notch compared to the little sisters of the poor.

 

[ag4fr]

Honestly... I don't think he has the first clue about what's coming. I still don't know about the D... but I suspect the O is going to trample them.

I think our team has a decent idea of what is coming. Not their first rodeo...

Y'all really like to talk a lot of smack for a program that hasn't amounted to squat in recent memory.

Doubt it? Give me your list of your top 5 wins in the past 3 seasons.

 

[Doyle Hargraves]

I think our team has a decent idea of what is coming. Not their first rodeo...

Y'all really like to talk a lot of smack for a program that hasn't amounted to squat in recent memory.

Doubt it? Give me your list of your top 5 wins in the past 3 seasons.

There is a big difference between "talking smack" and feeling like our boys should handle a team with less talent.
To your team's credit, on the other hand, anything can happen.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Lying is lying... I state opinions. They're based in facts. The facts aren't opinions. For instance, to claim that a team that has to slide a DE to DT and on occasion had to start a 265 lb walk on at DT is a better situation than a team with 4 or 5 guys with SEC size and athleticism... is not an opinion that respects fact.

I am probably less absolute when I do than 99% of the posters here. You just don't like the opinion.

And... I've praised that... but that fact isn't convenient to your narrative.

Really? Please cite one shred of proof for that... or have you lied again?

Not what I've said... but then again when you are on a roll why start having respect for truth or facts now?

Responses like these are why you're disliked on the board.

You act like you're the only sane person on these boards and that only your opinions are truth.

If you ever feel like you're the only sane person in a room, you're probably the only crazy or deluded person in that room.

Anytime somebody (besides you of course) uses sarcasm or hyperbole, you call them a liar. It's like some kind of sad defense mechanism.

Opinions can be based in fact and still be incorrect. There's such a thing as faulty logic. Statistics can be based 100% in fact and still be misleading or useless.

I don't even know why I'm responding, trying to reason with you is the definition of insanity.

 

[AlcoVOLic]

We will hammer those guys.

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

Please cite one place where I have said he should be fired before 3 years or have passed final judgment. I have expressed doubts based on what has happened so far... NOT CONCLUSIONS... just doubts.


Really? Please cite one shred of proof for that... or have you lied again?

Agree but I have been unable to find a current depth chart to see if those are back ups or guys they intend to play. If they are starters... then their brief moment in the sun is over.

FWIW, if UT's QB stares down receivers like that... then the Vols deserve to lose and fire the OC.

"Lies"

 

[Darth_Shiveman]

"Facts"

.... some of the reaction to Sunseri.

I have not read all of the most recent meltdown over this guy... and frankly do not plan on torturing myself that way.

HOWEVER....

This guy holds the title of Asst HC for Defense at Bama. Recent BCS champion Bama... who held LSU to under 100 yards in the title game. I'm not exactly sure what that means... except that Saban wanted him on staff badly enough to give him a bigger title and presumably more money. It also sounds like someone with a little more authority.

According to several, Bama fans are upset over the prospects of losing him.

He has been a DC before at a small school but a DC none the less.

He has success in the NFL.

Hart knows him probably better than any of the other candidates and perhaps more importantly knows what Saban and others at Bama really think of him.


For a good many of you... I am just confused why you are complaining if UT takes someone that Bama fears losing.

... asked a great question once: "Do you get what you ask for whether you want it or not?"

I think those asking for another coaching turnover at UT are asking for something far more than they realize. Once again, I am not, nor have I ever, said Dooley was "the guy" or destined for success. In fact, I have said just the opposite- that his chances for success were less than 50% even if he's a very good coach because of the program he inherited.

However there are ALWAYS unintended consequences to decisions like this... and there are absolutely NO, as in ZERO, sure fire winners in the coaching business... not even Saban who if by some miracle were named the HC at UT tomorrow would inherit a situation much more like Michigan State than Bama or LSU.

Holtz won a NC at ND... and flopped at USCe.

Kragthorpe was on everyone's A list before melting at L'ville... might want to hold that one open for Stong too.

Weis was a "can't miss" guy... who missed badly.

Turner Gill was considered a miracle worker at Buffalo and is out after two years at KU.

Neuheisel was thought to be UCLA's savior.

Hawkin was going to resurrect Colorado in Neuheisel's wake.

Rich Rod could not fail at Michigan, right?... and he even ended up with the ideal QB for his system.

O'Brien was sure to make NCSU a competitor, right?


There is always a time for change... well thought out... well planned... intelligent, rational, non-emotion driven change. Fulmer's time to go came and there is not rational argument against that fact. But even that change came with risks that didn't pan out, costs, and... pain.

It's crazy how you're so critical of this staff, but defended Dooley and his so harshly with the same logic so many are defending Butch and his (who, for the record have a a better track record).

La Tech.... absolutely nothing. They had something like 20 starters miss games due to injuries that year.

UK... that there are still things to fix. Duh.

Look. You may not like it. You may have no experience with it. But "continuous improvement" and the process focused management method is the dominant thing in organizational leadership today. It has proven repeatedly to be the BEST way to move an organization in the right way. Plan-> Do-> Check-> Act (correct) -> then repeat forever. It allows bench marks but never a finish line. Even the best must keep improving.

FWIW, this looks like what Saban has bought into at Bama.

... asked a great question once: "Do you get what you ask for whether you want it or not?"

I think those asking for another coaching turnover at UT are asking for something far more than they realize. Once again, I am not, nor have I ever, said Dooley was "the guy" or destined for success. In fact, I have said just the opposite- that his chances for success were less than 50% even if he's a very good coach because of the program he inherited.

However there are ALWAYS unintended consequences to decisions like this... and there are absolutely NO, as in ZERO, sure fire winners in the coaching business... not even Saban who if by some miracle were named the HC at UT tomorrow would inherit a situation much more like Michigan State than Bama or LSU.

Holtz won a NC at ND... and flopped at USCe.

Kragthorpe was on everyone's A list before melting at L'ville... might want to hold that one open for Stong too.

Weis was a "can't miss" guy... who missed badly.

Turner Gill was considered a miracle worker at Buffalo and is out after two years at KU.

Neuheisel was thought to be UCLA's savior.

Hawkin was going to resurrect Colorado in Neuheisel's wake.

Rich Rod could not fail at Michigan, right?... and he even ended up with the ideal QB for his system.

O'Brien was sure to make NCSU a competitor, right?


There is always a time for change... well thought out... well planned... intelligent, rational, non-emotion driven change. Fulmer's time to go came and there is not rational argument against that fact. But even that change came with risks that didn't pan out, costs, and... pain.

Deep down, you're just a butthurt Dooley fan who didn't like the Butch hire.

Really? Dooley is the reason there were so few SEC caliber starters in the JR and SR classes?

WHOA... I see the light. Thank you justin. I now understand that you do not need talent on the field in the SEC to win. You just need to keep changing coaches until someone with magic dust shows up and wins with a bunch of FCS level players. Great plan.

Really? Stone had nothing to do with losing his job? Interesting take.

You're right. NEVER happens to first year players at other schools... just UT who happened to be starting first year players at CB almost all year.



Then why are you? Why make something bad for "your" team... worse?

Oh hey, it's the logic you criticize people who defend Jancek and Azzani for using!