Ukraine Protests

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#3,179
#3,179
Rasputin_Vol said:
[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSXBoqVOjFc[/youtube]

It was clearly a move by the US to push them into the EU.

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8YSFNOaJupE[/youtube]
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It was the Russians who invaded and subjected Crimea. It is the Russians supplying and leading the militias. It is the Russians who have military forces on the Ukrainian border. America and the West may have had a role in throwing out Yanukovych but the Russians are the the sole reason behind the current mess in the Ukraine.
 
#3,180
#3,180
Burhead said:
It was the Russians who invaded and subjected Crimea. It is the Russians supplying and leading the militias. It is the Russians who have military forces on the Ukrainian border. America and the West may have had a role in throwing out Yanukovych but the Russians are the the sole reason behind the current mess in the Ukraine.
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I mostly agree, but I would credit an assist to the ineptness of the Ukrainian government/law enforcement/military for allowing things to get out of control. Stuff like this doesn't happen where there are well-functioning governments.
 
#3,181
#3,181
Burhead said:
It was the Russians who invaded and subjected Crimea. It is the Russians supplying and leading the militias. It is the Russians who have military forces on the Ukrainian border. America and the West may have had a role in throwing out Yanukovych but the Russians are the the sole reason behind the current mess in the Ukraine.
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You ignore the catalyst and instead blame the Russians for reacting...

Tantamount to me blaming Israel for the Six Day War and ignoring the blockade of the Straits of Tiran.
 
#3,182
#3,182
Rasputin_Vol said:
You ignore the catalyst and instead blame the Russians for reacting...

Tantamount to me blaming Israel for the Six Day War and ignoring the blockade of the Straits of Tiran.
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You mean the revolution of a people wanting to be free and democratic and a puppet (Yanukovych) that was and is corrupt and serving the collective interests of the Kremlin?
 
#3,183
#3,183
Burhead said:
You mean the revolution of a people wanting to be free and democratic and a puppet (Yanukovych) that was and is corrupt and serving the collective interests of the Kremlin?
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You didn't hear the video, 2 months before the coup in Ukraine, Nuland is telling Yanukovych to either take the EU deal or face consequences. Then, we turn around and agitate things during the Sochi Olympics... just to get Putin while he is pre-occupied. So we agitate a country in Russia's backyard and political ring of influence, and expected Putin to just sit on his hands while this went on?

Now, you claim, that Yanukovych is a puppet of the Kremlin. I could make the same argument about the opposition being puppets of the US (See the Nuland "F the EU" video).
 
#3,184
#3,184
The Ukrainian people were fed up with a man who stole billions from the state and opted for a brighter and more prosperous future with the EU. When that option was taken away from them, they took matters into their own hands, as evidenced by the thousands that protested peacefully throughout the winter. The US aren't the ones who instigated this crisis. Putin is simply scared he'll be next, since Russia is essentially a mafia state.
 
#3,185
#3,185
vol4eva said:
The Ukrainian people were fed up with a man who stole billions from the state and opted for a brighter and more prosperous future with the EU. When that option was taken away from them, they took matters into their own hands, as evidenced by the thousands that protested peacefully throughout the winter. The US aren't the ones who instigated this crisis. Putin is simply scared he'll be next, since Russia is essentially a mafia state.
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But let's blame the West and let the Kremlin off the hook.
 
#3,186
#3,186
vol4eva said:
The Ukrainian people were fed up with a man who stole billions from the state and opted for a brighter and more prosperous future with the EU. When that option was taken away from them, they took matters into their own hands, as evidenced by the thousands that protested peacefully throughout the winter. The US aren't the ones who instigated this crisis. Putin is simply scared he'll be next, since Russia is essentially a mafia state.
Click to expand...

:crazy:

Just how many prosperous countries are in the EU right now? You mean France? You mean the PIGS (Portugal, Italy, Greece & Spain)?
 
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#3,187
#3,187
Burhead said:
But let's blame the West and let the Kremlin off the hook.
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I'm not letting the Kremlin off the hook. I'm just pointing out that the EU/US were catalysts and sponsors of the Ukraine implosion. Then we have sanctimonious outrage when Russia reacts as they did.
 
#3,188
#3,188
vol4eva said:
The Ukrainian people were fed up with a man who stole billions from the state and opted for a brighter and more prosperous future with the EU. When that option was taken away from them, they took matters into their own hands, as evidenced by the thousands that protested peacefully throughout the winter. The US aren't the ones who instigated this crisis. Putin is simply scared he'll be next, since Russia is essentially a mafia state.
Click to expand...

They overplayed their hand or underestimated Russia's response. Their hopes were to get The Ukraine and bring NATO defenses to Russia's back door and also remove them from their only warm water port in the Black Sea. Unfortunately for them, they were not students of history or literature... unaware that Charge of The Light Brigade was written about a British suicide mission during the Crimean War. Yet, all of a sudden, the media spin is that Russia occupied Crimea when in reality, Russia has about 250 years of history in the area. WTF?
 
#3,189
#3,189
Rasputin_Vol said:
I'm not letting the Kremlin off the hook. I'm just pointing out that the EU/US were catalysts and sponsors of the Ukraine implosion. Then we have sanctimonious outrage when Russia reacts as they did.
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Putin doesn't get to dictate what sovereign countries decide regardless of this BS "sphere of influence". Putin is nervous that the Russian people will start to demand freedom if Ukraine is successful and that terrifies him.

Rasputin_Vol said:
They overplayed their hand or underestimated Russia's response. Their hopes were to get The Ukraine and bring NATO defenses to Russia's back door and also remove them from their only warm water port in the Black Sea. Unfortunately for them, they were not students of history or literature... unaware that Charge of The Light Brigade was written about a British suicide mission during the Crimean War. Yet, all of a sudden, the media spin is that Russia occupied Crimea when in reality, Russia has about 250 years of history in the area. WTF?
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So we just overlook the fact that Nikita Khrushchev transferred Crimea from Russian control to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 and had been under Ukrainian control for six decades?
 
#3,190
#3,190
Burhead said:
So we just overlook the fact that Nikita Khrushchev transferred Crimea from Russian control to the Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic in 1954 and had been under Ukrainian control for six decades?
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The Russians still had a base in Sevestopol the entire time. Tantamount to Cuba's relationship with the US and Guantanomo Bay.
 
#3,191
#3,191
Burhead said:
Putin doesn't get to dictate what sovereign countries decide regardless of this BS "sphere of influence". Putin is nervous that the Russian people will start to demand freedom if Ukraine is successful and that terrifies him.
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If the Russians want to send submarines to Cuba, and Cuba obliges, I guess you will maintain that stance?
 
#3,195
#3,195
vol4eva said:
The US instigated it? More like the Ukrainian people and the Parliament that voted Yanukovych out of office.
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The US already had feet on the ground ready to name a West-friendly successor by the time the Sochi Olympics started. Of course they were behind the scenes agitating this. Are we really that naive around here?

This 2 full months before the uprising. All because they didn't vote to join the EU??? And that was grounds for the US to send in Nuland, Kerry and the rest of the jackals?

Western Diplomats Try to Break Ukraine Political Deadlock
 
#3,196
#3,196
Rasputin_Vol said:
The US already had feet on the ground ready to name a West-friendly successor by the time the Sochi Olympics started. Of course they were behind the scenes agitating this. Are we really that naive around here?

This 2 full months before the uprising. All because they didn't vote to join the EU??? And that was grounds for the US to send in Nuland, Kerry and the rest of the jackals?

Western Diplomats Try to Break Ukraine Political Deadlock
Click to expand...

And the Russians had agents on the ground coordinating the brutal police actions undertaken against the protesters and also allegedly behind the sniper attacks on February 20th. No matter how much you want to paint the Russians as "good guys" they are the most responsible for this mess.
 
#3,197
#3,197
Burhead said:
And the Russians had agents on the ground coordinating the brutal police actions undertaken against the protesters and also allegedly behind the sniper attacks on February 20th. No matter how much you want to paint the Russians as "good guys" they are the most responsible for this mess.
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Nope...

[youtube]https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fWkfpGCAAuw[/youtube]
 
#3,198
#3,198
Russia and China just signed their energy trade treaty, moving away from the US dollar. In the grand scheme of things, what does this do to the US economy and the US global standing?
 
#3,199
#3,199
There was up to a half million protestors in Kiev by the first week in December. If the US was responsible for that, than it was one hell of a covert operation.
 
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