Ukraine Protests

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#3,226
#3,226
Rasputin_Vol said:
Ukraine's GDP ($175 billion) is not much bigger than Alabama's ($170 billion). If we included hookers and drugs, Alabama would probably overtake them in that. So it couldn't be trade.
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America is wanting to preserve and, in fact, strengthen a flailing EU for both trade and political interests. Ukraine moving into the Eurozone would have been a step further towards isolating Russia and strengthening American influence (whether this thinking is accurate or not). Meanwhile, Russia has been fomenting a right-wing nationalism throughout Europe. There's a reason why so many reactionaries and fascists throughout Europe and America find Putin so appealing and admirable. The thinking here is that such movements will weaken and subvert a Euro-alliance, thereby allowing Russia to be the undisputed top dog in Europe. Between a strong EU and a Europe that is internally split, I'll take a strong EU, ridiculous New World Order fears aside. If the Russian nationalistic model (which appears to me to be a very ethnocentric one; not necessarily racial) proves triumphant, it's back to war city in Europe again. A major war (not necessarily a world war) every decade or two. I know many people, particularly conservatives, dislike the EU and even the mere idea of something like the EU, but anyone has to admit that since its rise, Europe has been fairly calm.

Edit: Velo provided the following link a couple weeks ago. I think this is the best article on the crisis too date, but that's just my opinion.

Fascism Returns to Ukraine | New Republic
 
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#3,227
#3,227
volprof said:
America is wanting to preserve and, in fact, strengthen a flailing EU for both trade and political interests. Ukraine moving into the Eurozone would have been a step further towards isolating Russia and strengthening American influence (whether this thinking is accurate or not). Meanwhile, Russia has been fomenting a right-wing nationalism throughout Europe. There's a reason why so many reactionaries and fascists throughout Europe and America find Putin so appealing and admirable. The thinking here is that such movements will weaken and subvert a Euro-alliance, thereby allowing Russia to be the undisputed top dog in Europe. Between a strong EU and a Europe that is internally split, I'll take a strong EU, ridiculous New World Order fears aside. If the Russian nationalistic model (which appears to me to be a very ethnocentric one; not necessarily racial) proves triumphant, it's back to war city in Europe again. A major war (not necessarily a world war) every decade or two. I know many people, particularly conservatives, dislike the EU and even the mere idea of something like the EU, but anyone has to admit that since its rise, Europe has been fairly calm.

Edit: Velo provided the following link a couple weeks ago. I think this is the best article on the crisis too date, but that's just my opinion.

Fascism Returns to Ukraine | New Republic
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Wait, the only ones that are actually empowering right-wing fascists is the US with their hand picked Svoboda puppets. And Svoboda is no fan of Putin or any other Russian.
 
#3,229
#3,229
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait, the only ones that are actually empowering right-wing fascists is the US with their hand picked Svoboda puppets. And Svoboda is no fan of Putin or any other Russian.
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Except Svoboda is not in control of the government. Also you'll be surprised at the collaboration there is between Ukrainian far-right and Russian intelligence.
 
#3,230
#3,230
Looks like high voter turnout in much of the country, particularly Kyiv. The separatists all but cancelled the election in Donetsk.
 
#3,231
#3,231
Rasputin_Vol said:
Wait, the only ones that are actually empowering right-wing fascists is the US with their hand picked Svoboda puppets. And Svoboda is no fan of Putin or any other Russian.
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Read the article. And I know "fascism" is a term that gets bantered around far too much, similar to calling so-and-so a "Nazi." However, just what do you think Putinism is?
 
#3,233
#3,233
Velo Vol said:
Looks like high voter turnout in much of the country, particularly Kyiv. The separatists all but cancelled the election in Donetsk.
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I've noticed the Russian and pro-Russian sides have a bit of difficulty with the concept of "self-determination." I'm not going to hold my breath waiting for the autonomy referendum in Chechnya, Tatarstan, Bashkiria, and other regions of Siberia.
 
#3,234
#3,234
Do you want to know the kind of fighters that are pouring into Crimea and now Eastern Ukraine? Google Special Battalions Vostok and Zapad, former fighters from those battalions are now operating in Ukraine. They are ethnic Chechens who were subordinated to the Russian GRU. Have been accused of crimes against humanity.
 
#3,235
#3,235
Burhead said:
Do you want to know the kind of fighters that are pouring into Crimea and now Eastern Ukraine? Google Special Battalions Vostok and Zapad, former fighters from those battalions are now operating in Ukraine. They are ethnic Chechens who were subordinated to the Russian GRU. Have been accused of crimes against humanity.
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Unfortunately, it's like any other hot spot in the world like Syria and the Balkans were. It will attract the good and the bad.

Not justifying it by any means.
 
#3,237
#3,237
What's purported to be an exit poll. Run off might be avoided.

Bofx0KuIcAAI7oz.jpg
 
#3,238
#3,238
@MaxRTucker 2m

#Poroshenko: All my team will concentrate on ending the war, my first trip as President of #Ukraine will be to Donbass #UkraineVotes
 
#3,240
#3,240
@MaxRTucker 2m

Poroshenko speaks in excellent Ukrainian. Says he will make EU Association not just a document but reality. #UkraineVotes #UkraineElections
 
#3,242
#3,242
Yes, Ukraine is controlled by the Fascists;

@SylvieKauffmann 1m

#Ukraine Défaite spectaculaire des candidats d'extreme droite : Tiahnibok (Svoboda) 1,3% Iarosh (Pravyi Sektor) 0,9% via @mefimus
 
#3,243
#3,243
Velo Vol said:
What's purported to be an exit poll. Run off might be avoided.

Bofx0KuIcAAI7oz.jpg
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I think it was pretty much a given that the "Chocolate King" was going to win. I've read some articles saying that he is a moderate candidate that Ukrainians, the EU, US, and Russia alike can all get behind, and then I've read some articles suggesting otherwise. Go figure.
 
#3,244
#3,244
@Schuldensuehner 1m

Poroschenko says #Ukraine will never recognise crimean referendum and 'occupation of #crimea'

Good for them.
 
#3,245
#3,245
Burhead said:
Do you want to know the kind of fighters that are pouring into Crimea and now Eastern Ukraine? Google Special Battalions Vostok and Zapad, former fighters from those battalions are now operating in Ukraine. They are ethnic Chechens who were subordinated to the Russian GRU. Have been accused of crimes against humanity.
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I've also read that there are Chechens on the ground in the East, some there reluctantly apparently. I think it might be an effort on the part of the pro-Russian Chechen governor (or whatever they call themselves) to foment goodwill between himself and Moscow.
 
#3,246
#3,246
Burhead said:
Yes, Ukraine is controlled by the Fascists;

@SylvieKauffmann 1m

#Ukraine Défaite spectaculaire des candidats d'extreme droite : Tiahnibok (Svoboda) 1,3% Iarosh (Pravyi Sektor) 0,9% via @mefimus
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Hard to believe anyone not under the designs of Russian state media ever believed that nonsense.
 
#3,247
#3,247
@MaximEristavi 10m

Poroshenko calls for new security treaty that will replace the Budapest memorandum. "Crimea crisis showed it's not working"

I find this interesting.
 
#3,248
#3,248
Burhead said:
@MaximEristavi 10m

Poroshenko calls for new security treaty that will replace the Budapest memorandum. "Crimea crisis showed it's not working"

I find this interesting.
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Only thing I can think of is NATO, but I honestly don't think NATO would take them, at least not anytime soon. Despite the claims that the US wanted to make Sevastopol into a US naval site (which is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard in this entire mess), I don't think NATO is any rush to integrate Ukraine into its alliance. Integration into the Eurozone, now that's another question.
 
#3,250
#3,250
volprof said:
Only thing I can think of is NATO, but I honestly don't think NATO would take them, at least not anytime soon. Despite the claims that the US wanted to make Sevastopol into a US naval site (which is the most ridiculous thing I think I've heard in this entire mess), I don't think NATO is any rush to integrate Ukraine into its alliance. Integration into the Eurozone, now that's another question.
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Where did you read that?
 
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