Ukraine Protests

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#2,477
#2,477
#2,478
#2,478
@AP 15m

BREAKING: Putin calls Obama to discuss Ukraine; Obama urges Russia to pull troops back from border.
 
#2,479
#2,479
Google Übersetzer

Keywords: foreign policy , the United States of America

A telephone conversation between Vladimir Putin and U.S. President Barack Obama.

Continued exchange of views in connection with the crisis in Ukraine.

Vladimir Putin drew the attention of Barack Obama to the continued rampant extremists impunity commit acts of intimidation against civilians, government agencies, law enforcement agencies in different regions and in Kyiv.

In this context, the Russian leader proposed to consider possible steps the international community to help stabilize the situation. Agreed that in the near future the specific parameters of such cooperation will be discussed the foreign ministers of Russia and the United States.

The Russian President also drew attention to the actual external blockade of Transnistria, which leads to a significant complication of the living conditions of people in the region impedes their mobility, normal trade and economic activities. Emphasized that Russia stands for a just and comprehensive settlement of the Transnistrian problem, is interested in the efficient operation of the current negotiation format "5 +2".
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The fact he brought up Transnistria isn't encouraging.
 
#2,480
#2,480
For reference;

Bj2FMR1CcAAKehD.jpg


The Russians have around 2,000 troops stationed there.
 
#2,484
#2,484
Vladimir Putin drew the attention of Barack Obama to the continued rampant extremists impunity commit acts of intimidation against civilians, government agencies, law enforcement agencies in different regions and in Kyiv.
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There was a gathering of extremists outside a government building related to the murder of that Right Sector guy. A few windows were broken, but there didn't otherwise appear to be violence.

Russia media framed it as neo-Nazis storming the building.

So it goes.
 
#2,485
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volprof said:
Sounds like Transnistria is needing some Russian freedom.
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They've already requested to join after the Crimea vote.

Grand Vol said:
That's a whole lotta Ukraine to have to go through to get there.
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Yep. That's why I said Odessa (About a mile from Tiraspol) is probably the furthest up they'd go. Not to mention they would cut off Ukraine from it's last remaining ports.
 
#2,486
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Burhead said:
They've already requested to join after the Crimea vote.



Yep. That's why I said Odessa (About a mile from Tiraspol) is probably the furthest up they'd go. Not to mention they would cut off Ukraine from it's last remaining ports.
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Actually, Vol-dude (reporter guy I can't remember his name) said the Dneiper would be a good natural boundary. And it makes sense. If Putin wants any part of Moldavia, they have to take the rest of the Ukraine.

Now whether or not the rest of the world would put up with that is another matter entirely. But...I'm not holding my breath.
 
#2,487
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Velo Vol said:
Anyone think there is already a quiet deal between Russia and America regarding Ukraine?
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This kind of thing suggests if there's not one in place, there could be soon.

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/29/world/europe/putin-calls-obama-on-Ukraine.html?_r=0

The fact that Crimea, with so many armed people running around, was essentially transferred over with nary a shot was odd.

Wonder how much say Ukrainians have had in any of this? You don't see them in the negotiating process.
 
#2,488
#2,488
Weird question, but is Ukrainian Odessa pronounced like American Odessa (Texas)? Anybody know? DC Vol seems to be privy to these things, but he only shows up ever so often.
 
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Obsessed said:
Hey burhead,
Do you think its possible that Ukraine could still have a nuke or two, laying around?

I'm curious if Putin goes all in, if Ukraine may pull a Hail Mary on him.
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I doubt it but I guess you never know for sure. Ukrainian security sources have said they may look into restarting their nuclear arsenal but that would be bad IMO.
 
#2,493
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Burhead said:
I doubt it but I guess you never know for sure. Ukrainian security sources have said they may look into restarting their nuclear arsenal but that would be bad IMO.
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Gutsy move, but I seriously doubt they will get backing from the US or Europe if they did something like that.

However, if they mentioned something like this, chances are they believe they are out on their own (which they pretty much are) and have no other choice than to match force with force.
 
#2,494
#2,494
Obsessed said:
Hey burhead,
Do you think its possible that Ukraine could still have a nuke or two, laying around?

I'm curious if Putin goes all in, if Ukraine may pull a Hail Mary on him.
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For the sake of an argument say they did, I really doubt

1. They would still be functional
2. They also do not have a means of delivery (Ex. Strategic rocket forces. Not sure if any of the UAF aircraft could deliver nukes)

A one time they had a formidable military, at least on paper, after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Since than years of constantly reducing the size & budget of their military has basically left it as a paper tiger. This also wasn't done on accident either, I have my suspicions Moscow behind the scenes ordered that. Just for comparison only 6,000 troops are combat ready at this stage and the government is asking the people to donate money & supplies to help fund the military right now.
 
#2,495
#2,495
Grand Vol said:
Gutsy move, but I seriously doubt they will get backing from the US or Europe if they did something like that.

However, if they mentioned something like this, chances are they believe they are out on their own (which they pretty much are) and have no other choice than to match force with force.
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You do that and they isolate themselves from their only semi-allies at this point and put their already crippled economy under sanctions. Not to mention doing so would give the Kremlin all the justification they need, and than some, to actually invade. If the West is serious about assisting Kiev, President Obama should name Ukraine a Major Non-NATO ally and start arming/training the Ukrainian Armed Forces. I than would go to NATO and urge the alliance/individual states to also start assisting in the reequipping, reorganization, and training of the Ukrainian force. However neither us, nor the Europeans, will do that.
 
#2,496
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Burhead said:
For the sake of an argument say they did, I really doubt

1. They would still be functional
2. They also do not have a means of delivery (Ex. Strategic rocket forces. Not sure if any of the UAF aircraft could deliver nukes)

A one time they had a formidable military, at least on paper, after the collapse of the Soviet Union. Since than years of constantly reducing the size & budget of their military has basically left it as a paper tiger. This also wasn't done on accident either, I have my suspicions Moscow behind the scenes ordered that. Just for comparison only 6,000 troops are combat ready at this stage and the government is asking the people to donate money & supplies to help fund the military right now.
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They have aircraft capable of delivery. The Su-24 is a nuclear capable fighter-bomber and (according to Wiki) the Ukrainians have over 20.
 
#2,497
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Burhead said:
You do that and they isolate themselves from their only semi-allies at this point and put their already crippled economy under sanctions. Not to mention doing so would give the Kremlin all the justification they need, and than some, to actually invade. If the West is serious about assisting Kiev, President Obama should name Ukraine a Major Non-NATO ally and start arming/training the Ukrainian Armed Forces. I than would go to NATO and urge the alliance/individual states to also start assisting in the reequipping, reorganization, and training of the Ukrainian force. However neither us, nor the Europeans, will do that.
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The other half of that is if the Ukrainians had kept back any nuclear weapons, it's a clear violation of the Budapest Memorandum. It's not like Russia is really playing by that right now anyway, but if the Ukrainians were to come out with that, it would nullify it in its entirety.
 
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#2,498
Grand Vol said:
They have aircraft capable of delivery. The Su-24 is a nuclear capable fighter-bomber and (according to Wiki) the Ukrainians have over 20.
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Ah thanks, I always assumed it played more of a role like our A-10s do than an actual bomber aircraft :dunno:

Just saw where Russian plans to hand back over 350 military vehicles to the Ukrainians. Even if they are outdated I don't think I'd give them back if we were planning an invasion. I doubt you'll see them return their naval ships or aircraft though.

ITAR-TASS: Russia - Russia to hand over to Ukraine 350 armoured and motor vehicles
 
#2,499
#2,499
Burhead said:
Ah thanks, I always assumed it played more of a role like our A-10s do than an actual bomber aircraft :dunno:

Just saw where Russian plans to hand back over 350 military vehicles to the Ukrainians. Even if they are outdated I don't think I'd give them back if we were planning an invasion. I doubt you'll see them return their naval ships or aircraft though.

ITAR-TASS: Russia - Russia to hand over to Ukraine 350 armoured and motor vehicles
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You are thinking of the Su-25 as the Soviet answer to the A-10. Which was actually a bastardized copy of the Northrop YA-9 that lost in the competition with the Hog.

The Su-24 is more comparable to the F-111 although lacking the range of the Vark.
 
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