Two Deep Depth Chart Released

[LWSVOL]

No. Florida is a mess right now and Georgia is not as talented as the media makes them out. We are FAR AND AWAY the most talented team in the SEC East. We have the most experience. We have the best QB, best RB, and best defense in the division. There is zero excuse to not winning the division and playing for the SEC Championship in Atlanta this season.

Any coach who is even semi-competent could do it. If Butch can't get it done this year it might be time for the program to move ahead and find a coach who is actually ELITE.

Maybe I'm alone here but I'm not OK with mediocrity. Just being 9-4 isn't good enough at Tennessee. Its championship or bust here. And until this fanbase and administration recognizes that should be the standard, we'll continue to be a mediocre football team.

those 5 words right there show your analytical skills for college football talent / skills is sorely misguided. Your expressing "hope" that a defense which was as bad as this one last year will rise to the best one in the East? and passing that hope off as an evaluation.

No wonder so many question everything you say. You express the most off the wall observations...

 

[VFL-82-JP]

I honestly believe D4H suffers from a mental defect that might be called the "assumptions to facts ladder."

Here's how I think it's working in his head.

Assumption: we could beat Florida this year.
Fact: we will beat Florida this year.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: we could beat them by a lot.
Fact: we will beat Florida by a LOT.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: with us beating Florida by so much, we must be pretty good.
Fact: we are pretty dang good.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: as good as we are, we might just be the best in the SEC East.
Fact: we are gonna win the SEC East.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: if we're better than anyone in the East, we might be as good as anyone in the West.
Fact: we are as good as anyone in the SEC West.

...and on it goes, from there.

There seems to be no reality check built into his mental processes at all. As a result, he continually builds towers, tall, elaborate towers, with no structural foundation that the rest of us can see.

But he can see it, because to him it was just a series of facts.

I'm no psychiatrist, but I'm going with the assumptions-to-facts ladder as his diagnosis.

 

[greazy1722]

to say that this team could be the 2001 hurricanes is insane..im big die hard hurricane fan been watching this team as a kid..remember being in the orange ball a lot Saturdays saw those great teams and for u to say that this team is on that level on those national championship teams is crazy..i know u a vol fan an all, but u going to far with this..half of the players u mentioning going to be superstars haven't done anything on the field yet nor has they played a down in college football..just relax wait til after game 1 to make all these assumptions..

 

[m1al]

Too much talent? WTF is that?

This guy....

 

[Dougie_D]

I am happy to see a lot of SR and JR on the first string list.. We have aged finally.

That's what makes me nervous.

Sometimes I feel like Butch will play a mediocre guy/seniority than a much more talented younger player or a naturally talented player that doesn't work as hard.

I get the whole "the one who works the hardest will get the job"... but I'd rather have the better players

 

[05_never_again]

I honestly believe D4H suffers from a mental defect that might be called the "assumptions to facts ladder."

Here's how I think it's working in his head.

Assumption: we could beat Florida this year.
Fact: we will beat Florida this year.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: we could beat them by a lot.
Fact: we will beat Florida by a LOT.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: with us beating Florida by so much, we must be pretty good.
Fact: we are pretty dang good.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: as good as we are, we might just be the best in the SEC East.
Fact: we are gonna win the SEC East.

building off that new "fact",

Assumption: if we're better than anyone in the East, we might be as good as anyone in the West.
Fact: we are as good as anyone in the SEC West.

...and on it goes, from there.

There seems to be no reality check built into his mental processes at all. As a result, he continually builds towers, tall, elaborate towers, with no structural foundation that the rest of us can see.

But he can see it, because to him it was just a series of facts.

I'm no psychiatrist, but I'm going with the assumptions-to-facts ladder as his diagnosis.

He also has an anchoring problem with star ratings, both for individual players and the overall recruiting class.

It doesn't matter how highly rated a current junior or senior was when he came out of high school. It doesn't matter in 2017 what our 2014 or 2015 overall recruiting class was rated. The offensive line, for example, is filled with once highly-recruited 4-star guys that, for whatever reason, don't play like it. They aren't going to dramatically improve as juniors and seniors.

Highly-recruited, highly-rated high school players that ultimately become great college players come in and make some sort of immediate impact (either as a true frosh or RS soph), and they are superstars by their junior or senior year. None of these guys are like that.

If Trey Smith or Nigel Warrior, for example, are going to develop into the players we hope they will, they will show glimpses of this immediately and be all-SEC types of players in a year or two. Great players don't stumble around in mediocrity for 3 or 4 years before exploding into superstars in their final year and getting drafted highly, like D4H is calling for with almost all our starters.

 

[ReadCT]

Someone forward this to Kesling ASAP, specifically the pronunciation guide.

 

[hndog609]

He also has an anchoring problem with star ratings, both for individual players and the overall recruiting class.

Star ratings are exactly as accurate/inaccurate as which way the wind is blowing tumbleweeds through D4H's head regarding his argument of the moment.

 

[butchna]

to say that this team could be the 2001 hurricanes is insane..im big die hard hurricane fan been watching this team as a kid..remember being in the orange ball a lot Saturdays saw those great teams and for u to say that this team is on that level on those national championship teams is crazy..i know u a vol fan an all, but u going to far with this..half of the players u mentioning going to be superstars haven't done anything on the field yet nor has they played a down in college football..just relax wait til after game 1 to make all these assumptions..

:lolabove: Speaking of RELAX.

 

[MyBloodRunnethOrange]

Kendrick as a starter? Should I stack my mattresses now or wait?

With Richmond suspended I'd rather have the experience of Kendrick than an inexperienced player with potential.

 

[dcm3w]

The more people who believe Tennessee is a top program, the more likely we are to succeed. We've got Tennessee "fans" on here predicting Georgia to win the east. Just goes to show how clueless peole are. We've got the most talent, the best QB situatuon, the best defense,and the best DC in the east. There is is no excuse not to go 11-1, or 10-2 with a bad break. Its not that complicated. But no, we will finish third at best in the east.

Or you have fans that are realistic and realize that 9-4 is not a tragic season for us.

 

[05_never_again]

Star ratings are exactly as accurate/inaccurate as which way the wind is blowing tumbleweeds through D4H's head regarding his argument of the moment.

I'm not so sure about that. It isn't a coincidence that perennial top 10 teams and national champs all recruit at a very high level.

There are plenty of teams that recruit at a high level but aren't perennial top 10 or champs, and there are lots of individual 4 and 5 star recruits that bust. However, if you recruit a ton of 4 and 5 star guys, your chances of having a good team are higher because a certain number of them are going to hit.

 

[dcm3w]

I'm not so sure about that. It isn't a coincidence that perennial top 10 teams and national champs all recruit at a very high level.

There are plenty of teams that recruit at a high level but aren't perennial top 10 or champs, and there are lots of individual 4 and 5 star recruits that bust. However, if you recruit a ton of 4 and 5 star guys, your chances of having a good team are higher because a certain number of them are going to hit.

You have to look at those teams' schedules/conferences because even though they are lacking in top recruits, they play a weak schedule or conference. Hence, Boise State almost every season.

 

[05_never_again]

You have to look at those teams' schedules/conferences because even though they are lacking in top recruits, they play a weak schedule or conference. Hence, Boise State almost every season.

Boise St never contended for a national title, and they especially haven't been since Petersen left. National title winning teams, virtually without exception, have a multi-year string of top 10 recruiting classes in the years before winning a title.

There of course are going to be teams that underachieve (Georgia) and teams that overachieve (Boise St). But if you want to win titles, you have to have top recruiting classes. And not just one or two.

 

[hndog609]

I'm not so sure about that. It isn't a coincidence that perennial top 10 teams and national champs all recruit at a very high level.

There are plenty of teams that recruit at a high level but aren't perennial top 10 or champs, and there are lots of individual 4 and 5 star recruits that bust. However, if you recruit a ton of 4 and 5 star guys, your chances of having a good team are higher because a certain number of them are going to hit.

You misunderstood my comment. How D4H looks at star power is entirely dependent on how it benefits the argument he's making at that particular moment.

Now within the specific context (sans D4H) of what you posted I'd certainly agree.

 

[LWSVOL]

Boise St never contended for a national title, and they especially haven't been since Petersen left. National title winning teams, virtually without exception, have a multi-year string of top 10 recruiting classes in the years before winning a title.

There of course are going to be teams that underachieve (Georgia) and teams that overachieve (Boise St). But if you want to win titles, you have to have top recruiting classes. And not just one or two.

this coaching staff (through the first 4 years) fails in the development of too large a percentage of the players they recruited. Talking of the one's that have stayed. The numbers are a little over average of players lost in the first three classes which should be the strength of current team.

2013 signed 23 and 11 left before completing.
2014 signed signed 32 and 15 have left
2015 signed 30 and 11 have left so far. on track to be another high percent

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

He also has an anchoring problem with star ratings, both for individual players and the overall recruiting class.

It doesn't matter how highly rated a current junior or senior was when he came out of high school. It doesn't matter in 2017 what our 2014 or 2015 overall recruiting class was rated. The offensive line, for example, is filled with once highly-recruited 4-star guys that, for whatever reason, don't play like it. They aren't going to dramatically improve as juniors and seniors.

Highly-recruited, highly-rated high school players that ultimately become great college players come in and make some sort of immediate impact (either as a true frosh or RS soph), and they are superstars by their junior or senior year. None of these guys are like that.

If Trey Smith or Nigel Warrior, for example, are going to develop into the players we hope they will, they will show glimpses of this immediately and be all-SEC types of players in a year or two. Great players don't stumble around in mediocrity for 3 or 4 years before exploding into superstars in their final year and getting drafted highly, like D4H is calling for with almost all our starters.

Who has been stumbling around for 3-4 years here that I'm predicting will be a star this year?

Most of the players I'm hyping up are guys who have barely played for us (i.e. Jonathan Kongbo, Darrell Taylor, Austin Smith, Marcus Tatum, etc.) or guys who are true freshmen/redshirt freshmen (i.e. Josh Palmer, Latrell Williams, Trey Smith, etc.) The only juniors I hype up are guys who have dealt with injuries their first 2 years (i.e. Shy Tuttle, Kyle Phillips, Kahlil McKenzie, etc.).

You can literally only point to only one guy (Emmanuel Moseley) who I have hyped up this season that has "stumble around in mediocrity for 3 or 4 years". And for the record I never said he would become a star. I simply believe he'll play better this year because of the improved talent around him (especially along the defensive line) and the improved coaching.

FYI Justin Martin has only been at Tennessee for 2 years. He came in as a JUCO in 2015. Was injured in fall camp. Then played well late in the year when he became a starter. We all had high expectations for him going into 2016 because of how well he played in the second half of 2015. Now he laid an egg last year but all the reports from spring and fall camp are that he's been a stud this year. He's gonna be a star this year.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

to say that this team could be the 2001 hurricanes is insane..im big die hard hurricane fan been watching this team as a kid..remember being in the orange ball a lot Saturdays saw those great teams and for u to say that this team is on that level on those national championship teams is crazy..i know u a vol fan an all, but u going to far with this..half of the players u mentioning going to be superstars haven't done anything on the field yet nor has they played a down in college football..just relax wait til after game 1 to make all these assumptions..

I probably should have said the most talented team SINCE the 2001 Canes. This year's team does lack the star power at the top that the 2001 canes had. But I like our depth of talent.

Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the season. Greatness is about to happen.

 

[hndog609]

I probably should have said the most talented team SINCE the 2001 Canes. This year's team does lack the star power at the top that the 2001 canes had. But I like our depth of talent.

Just sit back, relax, and enjoy the season. Greatness is about to happen.

I thought that looked familiar. From 9/13/16

This is a championship team that can beat anyone they play. Shut up. Sit back and just enjoy the ride.

 

[LTVol]

Who has been stumbling around for 3-4 years here that I'm predicting will be a star this year?

Most of the players I'm hyping up are guys who have barely played for us (i.e. Jonathan Kongbo, Darrell Taylor, Austin Smith, Marcus Tatum, etc.) or guys who are true freshmen/redshirt freshmen (i.e. Josh Palmer, Latrell Williams, Trey Smith, etc.) The only juniors I hype up are guys who have dealt with injuries their first 2 years (i.e. Shy Tuttle, Kyle Phillips, Kahlil McKenzie, etc.).

You can literally only point to only one guy (Emmanuel Moseley) who I have hyped up this season that has "stumble around in mediocrity for 3 or 4 years". And for the record I never said he would become a star. I simply believe he'll play better this year because of the improved talent around him (especially along the defensive line) and the improved coaching.

FYI Justin Martin has only been at Tennessee for 2 years. He came in as a JUCO in 2015. Was injured in fall camp. Then played well late in the year when he became a starter. We all had high expectations for him going into 2016 because of how well he played in the second half of 2015. Now he laid an egg last year but all the reports from spring and fall camp are that he's been a stud this year. He's gonna be a star this year.

Robert Meachem never gained 500 receiving yards in F and Soph years, but had over 1200 his junior year. Sometimes players blossom late. Stars don't always demonstrate their greatness as freshmen

 

[05_never_again]

Who has been stumbling around for 3-4 years here that I'm predicting will be a star this year?

Well, first off, your user name is "Dobbs 4 Heisman." Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you'll claim he was a star despite never developing as a passer or as an operator of the read option. He wasn't a star. I really could stop there, but I won't:

- Abernathy
- Martin and Moseley (Yes - you did say they will be stars this year in a post from yesterday. All-SEC corners and drafted, to be exact).
- Stephen Griffin (not on team anymore but an example of what I'm talking about)
- Ethan Wolf (said he'd be in NFL next year despite being a marginal SEC tight end)
- Gaulden (The guy isn't even good enough to be a starting corner at Tennessee, yet he's a sure-fire NFLer in your eyes.)

Shall I continue?

There are other guys who have been here 2 years (not the 3-4 year range I mentioned) that you are simply too high on based on past performance. Kyle Phillips has done next to nothing in 2 years. Vickers wouldn't be starting for most other SEC teams. McKenzie has been a bust/can't stay on the field. Tuttle can't stay on the field. Yet all 3 of these guys will be drafted, according to you.

I can't imagine how out of whack these projections would be if you were a Bammer. Probably saying that all 22 starters for them this year will be eventual Hall of Famers, probably.

And of course, if we lose to Florida this year, you'll come back on here and say all these guys are bums.

 

[Dobbs 4 Heisman]

Well, first off, your user name is "Dobbs 4 Heisman." Yeah, yeah, yeah, I know you'll claim he was a star despite never developing as a passer or as an operator of the read option. He wasn't a star. I really could stop there, but I won't:

- Abernathy
- Martin and Moseley (Yes - you did say they will be stars this year in a post from yesterday. All-SEC corners and drafted, to be exact).
- Stephen Griffin (not on team anymore but an example of what I'm talking about)
- Ethan Wolf (said he'd be in NFL next year despite being a marginal SEC tight end)
- Gaulden (The guy isn't even good enough to be a starting corner at Tennessee, yet he's a sure-fire NFLer in your eyes.)

Shall I continue?

There are other guys who have been here 2 years (not the 3-4 year range I mentioned) that you are simply too high on based on past performance. Kyle Phillips has done next to nothing in 2 years. Vickers wouldn't be starting for most other SEC teams. McKenzie has been a bust/can't stay on the field. Tuttle can't stay on the field. Yet all 3 of these guys will be drafted, according to you.

I can't imagine how out of whack these projections would be if you were a Bammer. Probably saying that all 22 starters for them this year will be eventual Hall of Famers, probably.

And of course, if we lose to Florida this year, you'll come back on here and say all these guys are bums.

(1) Josh Dobbs set the school record for TDs in a season last year. He was 9 yards short of passing Peyton Manning's school record for total yards in a season. He led the SEC in QB rating and TD passes last year. And for his career, he was 2nd all-time in TDs scored and 3rd all-time in total yards. If Josh Dobbs wasn't a star at Tennessee with these numbers and accomplishments who has?

(2) Abernathy is a star. He was our best DB last year while healthy. Martin and Moseley will play very well this year. Stephen Griffin will turn into a real good player at NC State and will play in the NFL. Ethan Wolf has been a solid player his first 3 years. He'll be even better this year. And Rashaan Gaulden isn't a corner. He's a nickel. Which is essentially a starting position now in both college football and the NFL given how much teams play with 3 WRs on the field. He'll be a really good nickel corner in the NFL.

 

[05_never_again]

(1) Josh Dobbs set the school record for TDs in a season last year. He was 9 yards short of passing Peyton Manning's school record for total yards in a season. He led the SEC in QB rating and TD passes last year. And for his career, he was 2nd all-time in TDs scored and 3rd all-time in total yards. If Josh Dobbs wasn't a star at Tennessee with these numbers and accomplishments who has?

(2) Abernathy is a star. He was our best DB last year while healthy. Martin and Moseley will play very well this year. Stephen Griffin will turn into a real good player at NC State and will play in the NFL. Ethan Wolf has been a solid player his first 3 years. He'll be even better this year. And Rashaan Gaulden isn't a corner. He's a nickel. Which is essentially a starting position now in both college football and the NFL given how much teams play with 3 WRs on the field. He'll be a really good nickel corner in the NFL.

More of just stating your opinion as a fact. Martin and Moseley "will" play very well this year. Griffin "will" turn into a real good player. Just as sure as the sun coming up in the morning, right?

You know that counting stats, especially in college where the elite players leave after 2 or 3 years as a starter, are highly overrated. Particularly the career numbers. The top 5 career passing yards leaders in FBS are Case Keenum, Timmy Chang, Landry Jones, Graham Harrell, and Ty Detmer. With the exception of Detmer, were any of those guys true "stars" at either the college or pro level?

Josh Dobbs was not a gamebreaker whatsoever during his time at Tennessee. Teams never had to fear his downfield passing, which limited his overall effectiveness, and he wasn't great at running designed RPOs either. With the possible exception of Florida last year, he never "took over" a game and beat a good team. His single greatest skill was improvised running on 3rd down. "Stars" at quarterback in college will be in mix for Heisman Trophy consideration. He never sniffed that level.

I know Gaulden is not a corner. He's a nickel, and he's there because he isn't good enough to start a corner.

 

[05_never_again]

Robert Meachem never gained 500 receiving yards in F and Soph years, but had over 1200 his junior year. Sometimes players blossom late. Stars don't always demonstrate their greatness as freshmen

Meachem also had no QB to get him the ball in 2004 and 2005. WR is a position that is heavily dependent on the performance of another position (QB), and probably to a greater extent of any other spot on the field.

Man, that brings back bad memories of that 2005 team. We had a top 15 QB (Ainge) throwing to a top 5 WR (Meachem) and the #1 RB (Riggs). That team went 5-7.

 

[K-town Vol Fan]

If Colton Jumper was actually good then you might have a point. But he's not. Its not like he's Clay Matthews (who was a walk-on at USC). We're talking about a guy who was a total liability two years ago and a marginal SEC player last year.

And the fact we have 2 highly recruited 4-star LBs behind him makes it a bad look for the coaches. Dillon Bates and Daniel Bituli were top 150 players in the country that all the top programs were after. Its UNACCEPTABLE that a walk-on who isn't even good is ahead of them on the depth chart at this point in their careers. This is an indictment of Butch Jones and his staff. Its is not a compliment.

He has been a liability only in pass coverage. He reads running plays well and hits hard. Exactly what we need for GT.