Too much ice

#5,654
#5,654
DinkinFlicka said:
I've always thought that the ideological balance lives in a circle rather than a straight line. Autocracy and far right authoritarianism are just a few clicks away from each other.
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thats why I have tried to get eastern to explain what he means by "far right" outside of "Nazi". that feels like using the word you are defining in the defintion, its lazy and doesn't actually describe the word. he has refused to engage in a meaningful conversation to actually explain his stance beyond "I was told X 20+ years ago by a biased source". even his own articles haven't backed up what his argument actually is.

as I pointed out there are multiple parts to a political ideology to any political entity. you can break down the parts/policies of that entity to really examine if they are left or right. as I pointed out with the Nazis most parts/policies are far left, not far right.

when you get to "autocracy" the relevant noun/adjective would be "authoritarianism" and not "far right". compared to "autocracy" there is no "political control" difference in a far right authoritarian and a far left authoritarian. both are authoritarians. in fact autocracy can be a form of authoritarianism. when you look at an authoritarian, or most autocrats, that is a far left form of control, where as anarchy would be the far right example.

as I pointed out to eastern the level of simplification he is doing, and its a common practice, completely hides the truth. the fact that the nazis and the communists fought doesn't mean they are diametrically opposed. communists fight communists, fascists fought fascists, democracies fight democracies.
 
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#5,655
#5,655
EasternVol said:
That's an odd comment since I didn't comment on it and you have no idea that I think it says anything other than what it says.

That's before Hitler became Chancellor.

Who said Nazi Germany was a corporate state? Corporatism was more a Mussolini model. The Nazi government was in charge, they and most industrialists cooperated, capitalists kept their capital and profit, and the whole arrangement was Fascist and hence rightist.
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a corporate state would be the far right version, which is what you have been claiming the nazis are. where as a completely state owned economy would be far left. the only ones with any control were the Nazis, the capitalists were just allowed to work for them. that is a major distinction you seem incapable of even acknowledging.

who had the power, the Nazis, or the industrialists? The Nazis. Nazis set the quotas, they controlled who got the jobs. they controlled who was in power. they controlled which companies made what. they controlled what workforce they used. they controlled their imports and exports. that is far more left than right.

as I keep pointing out the only thing the Nazis were right of were straight up communists.

and when you said the capitalist kept their capital, only some kept their capital. the Nazis kept their capital. everyone else lost theirs. Hitler always made it clear the party came before an individual's right to own. yes that wasn't the communist outright ban on private property, but it wasn't even an American level of private property, which puts it on the left side of the spectrum.
 
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#5,656
#5,656
EasternVol said:
It's a simple question. Was GK aggressive or not? Yes. He wasn't passive. Is Fascism Rightist? Yes. It's not Leftist.
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except its not. I have asked multiple times. actually define what you mean by "Rightist" vs "leftist". because to date your only definition has been Rightist=Nazi, which is a fallacy.

I went thru and broke down the various policies of the Nazi party, 2 of the 13 would be considered "rightist" policies. that does not mean they were actually a "rightist" ideology. it means they were slightly to the right of the far left communists.
 
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#5,658
#5,658
Orange_Crush said:
As in an appeal to the authority of a commonly held opinion (often put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds)?

View attachment 808991


Did you notice any of the others? It was literally a centrally planned economy with no private property rights.


View attachment 808992





The economist that lived through it said that it was capitalist in name only.

View attachment 808989

Having literally stated that in practice, it was little different than communism.

View attachment 808990

It was a collectivist ideology, full stop.
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he can't even define what he actually means by "right/rightist/far right". or really express an understanding of what is actually considered "right" vs "left"

according to him the USSR would be a far right ideology because a few oligarchs at the top kept their property and profits. its lazy and flat out wrong.
 
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#5,660
#5,660
tim said:
She did her time. She’s trustworthy now.
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Having 6 kids I'm not sure she did do time. If she did it couldn't have been very long. I don't know the particulars but I would think someone found guilty of a murder robbery plot would do much more than a few years.

In fact I grew up with a few guys that did this very thing and were found guilty. They each did anywhere between 10 and 20 years.
 
#5,661
#5,661
LouderVol said:
except its not. I have asked multiple times. actually define what you mean by "Rightist" vs "leftist". because to date your only definition has been Rightist=Nazi, which is a fallacy.

I went thru and broke down the various policies of the Nazi party, 2 of the 13 would be considered "rightist" policies. that does not mean they were actually a "rightist" ideology. it means they were slightly to the right of the far left communists.
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1769092284481.png
 
#5,665
#5,665
Vol since 77 said:
"The white liberal is the worst enemy to America and the black man. The white liberal has perfected the art of using the negro as a pawn."

Malcolm X
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One thing I really respect about Malcolm X.

He was as left wing and extreme as they come with his rhetoric, but as he got older and wiser and realized the truth about the liberal political establishment AND Islam, he rebuked them both as two of the biggest cancers in the world, especially to black people
 
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#5,669
#5,669
Orange_Crush said:
As in an appeal to the authority of a commonly held opinion (often put forth as authoritative without adequate grounds)?

View attachment 808991
Click to expand...
Why list synonyms? Here's the definition from the same source:
dogma noun
dog·ma ˈdȯg-mə ˈdäg-
plural dogmas also dogmata -mət-ə
1 : something considered as an established opinion
2 : a belief or body of beliefs concerning faith or morals laid down by a church
Orange_Crush said:
Did you notice any of the others? It was literally a centrally planned economy with no private property rights.

View attachment 808992
Click to expand...
And private capital was the big part of that.
Orange_Crush said:
The economist that lived through it said that it was capitalist in name only.
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It wasn't capitalist in name.
Orange_Crush said:
View attachment 808989

Having literally stated that in practice, it was little different than communism.

View attachment 808990

It was a collectivist ideology, full stop.
Click to expand...
A lot of other economists disagree.
 
#5,672
#5,672
EasternVol said:
Why list synonyms? Here's the definition from the same source:
dogma noun
dog·ma ˈdȯg-mə ˈdäg-
plural dogmas also dogmata -mət-ə
1 : something considered as an established opinion
2 : a belief or body of beliefs concerning faith or morals laid down by a church

...

A lot of other economists disagree.
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My point about your argument. It's basically an appeal to dogmatic opinion in the face of counter evidence and testimony from contemporaries. Which is that the gov't had complete control of the economy, production, and property.
 
#5,673
#5,673
Rickyvol77 said:
Because their vehicle of kids that they left unattended was parked behind the group of protestors as they joined. So when ICE threw flash bangs and OC at the violent crowd, their vehicle was in the line of fire.

Surprising that you can't trust an actual murderer on the real story huh?
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That's interesting. Has a credible news source run that or any recent clarification of what happened, or is it just from the likes of Johhny Midnight?
 
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